Moclobemide converting psilocybin into DMT?

[Ismene]

I've been experimenting with moclobemide with DMT freebase orally and loved the effects apart from the really sickening nausea way down in the pit of your stomach that oral DMT can cause.

I've tried taking moclobemide with a large dose of mushrooms a few times and found that moclobemide somehow converts the psilocybin into DMT. I've taken oral DMT many times and I find mushrooms and moclobemide indistuingishable from DMT. There's also the added benefit that there's zero nausea and a trip that lasts a good 3-4 hours longer than using DMT freebase. Mushrooms and moclobemide are like peaking on DMT for 4-5 hours.

Anyone got any theories as to how the moclobemide would have this effect on psilocybin? I've heard people say moclobemide "potentiates" mushrooms but I don't find that at all. It doesn't make it a stronger psilocybin experience, it completely changes the psilocybin experience into a DMT experience.

(Trip report from yesterday for anyone interested in this combo:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=512659

 

[greenmeanies]

holy bajeezus, 15 grams of fungus with an MAOI, i think at that level you wouldn't come back from heaven

i've had some experience with syrian rue + mushrooms (ps. cyanescens) and these were my first ++++ trips.

i agree that the combination DEFINITELY changes the qualitative feel of the trip in addition to increasing the quantitative potency. but since you said yourself that oral DMT gives you nausea and only lasts a couple hours (compared to the shroomhuasca which doesn't give you nausea and lasts a good bit longer) WHY would you think the psilocin is being converted to DMT?

1. there may be some traces of DMT naturally occuring in mushrooms, that is not orally active normally until you combine with an MAOI. or you are feeling increased effects from the other alkaloids in mushrooms (baeocystin, norbaeocystin) which contributes to a different-feeling trip
2. there is zero evidence for the psilocin conversion to DMT
3. there is zero chemical precedent for the removal of a hydroxyl group from an aromatic ring. it just doesn't happen. if anything, the body has enzymatic systems that can ADD hydroxyl groups (phenylalanine -> tyrosine)

 

[Listening]

Also, are we sure that this combo is safe? I'm not suggesting otherwise, would just like to know if there is a known risk; people seem suspicious of MAOIs with many psychedelics, but I'm sure its been attempted with mushrooms often enough to be aware of at least some potential risks...?

 

[Bardeaux]

AFAIK MAOIs and mushrooms are pretty safe. It is, however, not a good idea to take certain phenethylamines (such as 2c-x) with an MAOI.

 

[adrian89987]

While I've found there to be many similarities to the experience, I'd have to say that it is not quite an oral DMT experience. Oral DMT has a certain crystal clear quality that mushrooms+MAOI has always failed to give

 

[solistus]

I'm not aware of any tryptamines that are unsafe to combine with MAOIs. The big category of drugs that are bad to combine with an MAOI are phenethylamines (2CXs, DOXs, amphetamines, etc.) and/or anything that increases serotonin or dopamine levels.

 

[Ismene]

but since you said yourself that oral DMT gives you nausea and only lasts a couple hours (compared to the shroomhuasca which doesn't give you nausea and lasts a good bit longer) WHY would you think the psilocin is being converted to DMT?

You get the same visuals you get on DMT - they're a world apart from psilocybin visuals, you get the same "DMT presence" that you don't get on psilocybin and you get the unique bodyhigh of oral DMT which is again noticeably different to psilocybin.

I think the nausea can probably be explained by DMT freebase being a naturally nausea inducing compound. Sometimes you can mix DMT freebase with coca-cola and get DMT phosphate which isn't as nauseating. And supposedly DMT fumerate isn't nauseating either. Perhaps the form the DMT comes in from psilocybin isn't nauseating?

holy bajeezus, 15 grams of fungus with an MAOI, i think at that level you wouldn't come back from heaven

I have got quite a big tolerance to mushrooms, so it's not that far out of the ordinary for me.

 

[Ismene]

While I've found there to be many similarities to the experience, I'd have to say that it is not quite an oral DMT experience. Oral DMT has a certain crystal clear quality that mushrooms+MAOI has always failed to give

What similarities have you noticed adrian? Do you get the "DMT-presence" feeling and the DMT visuals? Have you tried upping the mushroom dose?

 

[solistus]

MAOIs block monoamine oxidase. How would blocking monoamine oxidase cause a new metabolic pathway to open up and what would that metabolic pathway be?

Perhaps what you associate with oral DMT's presence and bodyload is more related to the effects of MAOIs themselves and the effects of having lots of tryptamines in the brain. Smoked DMT is probably one of the few things that can briefly compare to the concentration of tryptamines you get with an MAOI.

 

[Ismene]

One other thing I've noticed, if you take moclobemide and then take a dose of mushrooms that isn't big enough to really get into DMT-space (or you've still got tolerance from your last moclobemide/mushroom trip), you don't really feel any effect of the psilocybin. It's as if the maoi is somehow blocking the psilocybin.

There is a big tolerance with mushrooms/maoi. While mushrooms will work every week, mushrooms and moclobemide won't. You need to leave it about a month plus.

 

[greenmeanies]

interesting. due to the soul-shattering intensity of my shroomhuasca trips, i never had the desire to repeat the experience with any more frequency than about two months in between trips.

have you ever tried syrian rue or b. caapi? i have no exp with moclobemide, but i recall reading somewhere that if an MAOI is taken too frequently, then the clinical effects (increased concentration of monoamines all over the brain) will actually block the desired effects of the psychedelic. what kind of half-life does moclo have? you may be experiencing something like the "SSRI making it so i can't trip" syndrome, where the simple excess of serotonin from clinical drugs is making the psychedelic drug ineffective in stimulating the proper receptors.

 

[adrian89987]

What similarities have you noticed adrian? Do you get the "DMT-presence" feeling and the DMT visuals? Have you tried upping the mushroom dose?

It's been a few months since I've used either oral DMT or mush+MAOI but I'll try my best to remember...

I do remember there being a very similar body high with the two combinations. I did not get DMT visuals from mushrooms though. DMT had very distinct crystal clear neon shining visuals overlaying my whole vision with all colors and textures blending into each other. However I've only taken up to around 5 grams of mush with a full MAOI dose and never gone above that dose.

Another similarity is that both mush+MAOI and O-DMT left me practically immobile on my bed for a good time. The emotions brought up from random thoughts by O-DMT were faaar more intense than anything brought up by mush+MAOI.

 

[Ismene]

interesting. due to the soul-shattering intensity of my shroomhuasca trips, i never had the desire to repeat the experience with any more frequency than about two months in between trips.

have you ever tried syrian rue or b. caapi? i have no exp with moclobemide, but i recall reading somewhere that if an MAOI is taken too frequently, then the clinical effects (increased concentration of monoamines all over the brain) will actually block the desired effects of the psychedelic. what kind of half-life does moclo have? you may be experiencing something like the "SSRI making it so i can't trip" syndrome, where the simple excess of serotonin from clinical drugs is making the psychedelic drug ineffective in stimulating the proper receptors.

I only take the moclobemide when I take mushrooms so it's usually only about once a month. I think the problem might be whereas oral DMT only normally lasts an hour to 90 minutes, with mushrooms you're getting the peak of a DMT high for 4-5 hours. Presumably that tires your DMT receptors out a bit!!

Perhaps inhibiting the monoamine oxidase lets the DMT part of the psilocin molecule be more active?

 

[Ismene]

It's been a few months since I've used either oral DMT or mush+MAOI but I'll try my best to remember...

I do remember there being a very similar body high with the two combinations. I did not get DMT visuals from mushrooms though. DMT had very distinct crystal clear neon shining visuals overlaying my whole vision with all colors and textures blending into each other. However I've only taken up to around 5 grams of mush with a full MAOI dose and never gone above that dose.

Another similarity is that both mush+MAOI and O-DMT left me practically immobile on my bed for a good time. The emotions brought up from random thoughts by O-DMT were faaar more intense than anything brought up by mush+MAOI.

I think a bigger dose would give you the full DMT visions, I couldn't tell the difference. Surprised you were immobile on the mushrooms - I had a ton of energy. I sometimes lay immobile on o-dmt but often that's because I know if I move I'm going to bring nausea on.

 

[adrian89987]

Heh, well with mushrooms its less being immobile and more just not quite understanding directions or being able to tell where walls are so I am somewhat afraid to leave the bed. With O-DMT it's cause I can't possibly fathom leaving the bed.