Micro dosing antipsychotics

[jambabomba]

I was wondering has anyone here experimented with microdosing antipsychotics for aiming to use it as kind of adaptive stimulant?

I am familiar with low-dose or microdose flumazenil concomitant with benzo use to lower tolerance to benzodiazepines and even reverse tolerance to benzo naive levels.

Similarly opioid antagonist naltrexone increase endorphin production up to 300% (at 3mg dose of naltrexone) and sensitize the receptors for agonists.

Also adrenergic system upregulates itself in the presence of antagonists like bisoprolol or propranolol which in turn in the long run will help cardiac function etc.

Also it has been noted in the studies that haloperidol and other dopamine antagonists upregulate D1/D2 receptors up to 400% and raise dopamine levels and/or increase dopamine metabolism quite significantly.

So I started to experiment micro dosing with quetiapine. It is quite low affinity dopamine antagonist (but strangely about similar to clozapine) but still strong enough for me that if I take 25-50mg without benzos or opioids I get allmost full body restless leg syndrome that feels in the entire spinal column and causes compulsive need to raise from the bed to move and then back to bed and then back up and this can continue several hours in the night until it wears off and I can sleep. So not good sleep aid at all for me without some dopamine releasing drug.

But now I started experiment with doses of ~250ug of the drug. I am not sure but I feel like nicotine is working more than usual and my sexual desire is stronger and my opioids seems to work little better despite I have been tapering them down along with gabapentin and benzos.

I think tomorrow I will try at morning with morning coffee a dose of about 500ug and see if it causes actually a dopamine, histamine and serotonin boost for the day (or whatever it antagonizes but mainly I guess dopamine and histamine would be those that could stimulate).

Any thoughts?

 

[daturetard]

Unless you are psychotic please stay far away from antipsychotics.

 

[jambabomba]

Unless you are psychotic please stay far away from antipsychotics.

Yes thank you for answer. I am aware of the dangers. Worse than benzos or opioids or even metamphetamine.

It is funny that Nancy Andersson who so believed that schizophrenia causes shrinkage of the brain mass was forced to admit that the shrinkage was because of antipsychotics and even drug&alcohol use was safer for the brain than use of antipsychotics. Then was this legendary study from Pfizer with Makaki monkeys..was it with Olanzapine and Haloperidol. One year and 20% decrease in glial cells and 10% decrease in grey matter from frontal lobes (at the normal equivalent human doses).

But anyway, I mean I am not going to use antipsychotics normal doses but I am trying micro dosing. I am thinking the effect could in theory be the opposite? Especially with short half-life neuroleptics like quetiapine.

 

[daturetard]

Well, there's some research on quetiapine being more sedating the lower the dose. I'm not sure how this applies to microdosing if at all. But I really couldn't imagine nootropic effects from it. Look at Rhodiola, bacopa, huperzine, l theanine, even PEA or sildefinil/modafinil and just look into real nootropics with studies confirming their effectiveness. I would really suggest you don't make yourself the first known labrat of this test with the most horrendous class of drugs I know of, perhaps excluding pyros and nitazenes. I don't know you or what'd going on in your life, and maybe all is well, but I really would never wish these drugs in any dose on my worst enemy. I understand the theory and im not saying you're wrong, but I would wait for animal testing.
E: also, I'm gonna have to assume the dopamine and other monoamine increases are dose dependent and would require a dose that would block the receptors in the first place. I would also have to assume that the increases of monoamines are at least partially due to the blockage of receptors to uptake them. Therefore the serum levels would be higher, but that's just a theory

 

[daturetard]

And by the last sentiment I'm not encouraging or condoning animal testing, but regardless of my thoughts on the matter, probably soon will or already has happened. Some government (I think US) spent almost 1 million pretty recently to confirm if some European bird gets horny when it does coke.

 

[jambabomba]

Well, I ended up using Olanzapine at dose 2,5-5mg. The reasons for use are not that I am psychotic or have some disease they are meant for but I use because I want to benefit their effects as serotonin antagonists (as they are more serotonin antagonist than dopamine antagonists) on specific receptors that I feel are good to antagonize like 5ht-2a and 5ht-2c which are excitatory and increase glutamate if agonist is present but their antagonism increases dopamine at frontal lobes.

Another big reason I started to use is because Olanzapine and clozapine both increase allopregnanolone significantly. And in fact, their antipsychotic effects can be eliminated by preventing neurosteroid synthesis. Allopregnanolone is about 20x more potent PAM (Positive Allosteric Modulator) at gaba-a than benzos and up to 200x more potent than barbiturates. And on top of that, at high doses it can act also as an direct agonist at gaba-a and affects equally all subtypes of receptors.

So I use small doses to avoid dopamine pathway degeneration and I also use high dose Vitamin C + B3 which will prevent toxicity from neuroleptics the effect that Linus Pauling and Dr. Hawkins noted allready at 60's. In their studies they managed to prevent it so well that even though typical antipsychotics were used back then and about 1/3 or even 1/2 developed tardive dyskinesia (or drug induced parkinsonism) with those vitamins they dosed those numbers dropped near to zero. 99,8%% of the studied patient population did not develop tardive dyskinesia.

I am thinking of switching to clozapine because it has even more less effect on dopamine receptors but allmost equal effect on serotonin and histamine receptors + it has much more favorable half life of 4-12h. It also increases allopregnanolone and has direct agonist effect on gaba-b receptors why it might be "the king of antipsychotics".

 

[daturetard]

You should tread lightly. I understand I've already given this advice, but if one of them isn't giving you the nootropic effects you expected, it might be time to give it up. Have you looked into microdosing psychedelics? They would have a much more direct effect that doesn't rely upon sensitization and downstream effects. You can recognize patters better in both visual and mental stimuli.

Sorry to be repetitive, but these drugs are very dangerous. They have a definite effect- long term- of brain shrinkage. Some animal tests say up to 30% of the brains original volume. Probably in overdose, but nonetheless, these drugs are not to be taken lightly. I just want to reiterate how much easier it would be to find an effective and widely known / accepted nootropic that has nothing to do with antipsychotic drugs. I hope you find your magic bullet, and I pray that it's not an AP.

 

[Smyth2]

Although I have never personally tried it, switching to clozapine sounds like a bad idea. The maximum dosage with olanzapine is 20mg. If you switch to clozapine you will be getting hundreds of mg per day! While this might help you more than olanzapine you have to get regular blood tests. If the olanzapine is practically too weak to feel anything, Seroquel does not require the blood tests.

 

[izo]

I had 5mg haldol once and it was really nice, good Body high. I think around 7-8mg are best with this. When I See People on 25mg of this in the psychiatric ward it doesnt Look very recreational for me but in low doses it was ok.

 

[MindlessBilly]

I used to use low doses of Quetiapine 25mg as a sleep aid or to kill a meth high and avoid staying awake for more than 2 days. My understanding was in lower doses it acts as an anti histamine rather than an anti psychotic. I used it on and off for years until I learned about the brain shrinkage, plus the waking up feeling like a train hit me for half the day until my 20mg of dex and 3 cans of red bull kicked in.


Evil drugs anti psychotics are