methylmethaqualone

[Hammilton]

this does in fact cause siezures. I witnessed it last night and the stuff will be trashed. Phenazepam proved a valuable tool in reducing it. The person has no recolection, and had to be held down and monitored for half hour. effects are still not fully gone this morning.

Still, I don't think it's wise to start recommending the combining of benzodiazepines with old-school depressants.

 

[Torabora]

I will for sure check this stuff out, I already have tested ethaqualone but it has a way to short halflife for being fun but I will be very careful and start very low will report back

ah to bad just checked and this is illegal in germany ;( so no testing for me

 

[Policethepolice?]

Wasn't MMQ found to be a direct AMPA agonist?

AMPARs are involved in synaptic plasticity, memory and learning, so this would be the ultimate dumb drug (compare smart drug )

Direct agonists would cause excitotoxicity, just like domoic acid would do (just look it up, results would put you off anything similar permanently)

I am interested to learn more about this. I didn't feel any dumber than normal having smoked weed beforehand.

From my post here: Methymethaqualone - nosebleed from vaping.

Is there any mechanism of GABAegerics like methylmethaqualone which might cause a minor nosebleed? I vaped around 10mg and upon wiping my nose, notice id was bloody. This is what I recoded so far.

It is from a vendor who has a poor track record, and is accused of sending out that awful batch of 4-MeO-PCP. They deny it, saying there synthesis could not cause PCC contamination.

These are my notes so far:

Spoiler: Trip report

Methylmethaqualone


5mg HCl salt loaded to vape. Fine white powder.
23:38 - Harch, acidic smoke. Not inhalable unless diluted.
23:40 - Definitely some activity. I suspect less than half has been vaped.
23:42 - The taste is negligible when the hit is not allowed to build vapour.
23:46 - A very clean vape, no sign of burning at all.
23:54 - it seems like the duration is short. I lod another 8mg
23:55 - the vapour has made my tongue a bit numb
23:57 - Pletny crosseyed, a bit stronger now.
00:01 - Tactile changes, poss slight whole body anaesthesia
00:02 - I notice my nose is bleeding. It's not running with it, but it's very noticeable. I never get nosebleeds.
00:08 - It's wearing off again. Not long a lived peak. The smoke seems to be less harsh as the load evaporates.

As you can see, the dose and harshness of the smoke are pretty consistent with what others have said, although the duration seems a bit off.

 

[BananasAndOranges]

Seriously be careful guys. I just say on a popular vending site theres someone selling this. They appear to have good reviews but I have recieved from this person before and lets just say what I got woulld have been a bromo accident waiting to happen. I dont think I need to say more.

 

[Timland]

Been hitting this one hard. Broke 2 ubies so far and 5 grams. No seizures so far knock on wood. MMQ got me off opis and stims. This stuff keeps me in the zone. With responsible dosing this drug can benefit your life immensely.

 

[Torabora]

My gf tried this out too now, while 20mg oral only produced treshold effects (she weights arround 60kg) 65mg were a bit too much and produced shaking hands and twitching in her face (which looked quite freighting) but no real seizures.

She found it very very good and with 55mg she has no problems and claims it feels awesome ^^ but still when shes trying to do something difficult with her hands they tend to shake a bit also lifting something heavy results in shaking. So be careful with it but if taken carefully it is not that unsafe as shaking and twitching seems to happen before you get real seizures. But yea like always start low and stay safe

 

[LeLouche]

With so many drugs out there I don't find it worth the risk to take things with such a high chance of seizures. Even though I do have klonopin, it's just not worth it to me. Other drugs, less risks.

 

[Torabora]

well I dont have much other drugs in that direction available, there were so many busts/house searchs in germany from ordering GBL.. Quaaludes are not available anywhere and Ethaqualone is shit so not many alternatives

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

That's what I would call a steep dose-response curve in comparison to regular old methaqualone.

Be careful with this substance.

 

[Solipsis]

Yeah I wouldn't touch this with a 10 ft pole, I have etaqualone at unknown quality but I will just leave it be. At another forum people rang alarm bells, let us consider if novelty is really worth digging up pharmaceuticals that have bad safety and are barely okay to use in dependable form (pharm) without combining let alone adding other things.
Years ago I thought new experiences were worth a whole lot - now I think: it's not worth the price and I wouldn't like others to pay it for me. Let's stick to the least possible amount of negative CNS depressant effects when it comes to these things.

 

[FlippingTop]

Shame to see this popping up on a pretty good RC site.
This will be an accident waiting to happen for many people...

 

[Drag2019]

This and other qualone analogs have popped back up in the RC scene again.

 

[krkkhed]

This and other qualone analogs have popped back up in the RC scene again.

yes they have. Considering ordering some just because I'm so fascinated by it. I'm going to stretch my use out as much as possible though, and I do have some benzoso I might take low doses of just incase seizures..
Won't be going over 8mg smoked or like 100mg oral (150 seemed good for one person and 90 was good for another, I'll start at 20 and go up from there)

Also; I'm getting freebase form stuff. Have most people gotten freebase or HCl?

 

[4DQSAR]

I read a study that covered many methaqualone analogues and it appears that whatever the para (4) substitution of that pendent aromatic, the medicines all had serious issues with causing seizures.

The original German patent states that dimehaqualone is around three times more potent that it's parent.

I also found the dissertation of a post graduate student in South Africa who identified the dozens of different compounds being sold as methaqualone. What I found most interesting is the fact that in the one nation on earth that still has a significant methaqualone problem, none of the analogues discovered had a para (4) substitution on that pendent aromatic. I mean, it would seem a no-brainer to sell dimethaqualone IF you could pretend it was methaqualone, but the fact it wasn't detected suggests that the users would not accept the stuff.

I've been witness to people smoking methaqualone and quite often they will smoke it. The Afrikans name for it is 'de wit pip' (the white pipe) and man, people were passing out and collapsing to the ground only to smoke another pipe 20 minutes later. I suggest that such people represent the majority of methaqualone (and analogues) sold and used on the streets of South Africa. So if plain methaqualone can do that - imagine the death toll if dimethaqualone were substituted.

Often stronger does not mean better.

 

[krkkhed]

I read a study that covered many methaqualone analogues and it appears that whatever the para (4) substitution of that pendent aromatic, the medicines all had serious issues with causing seizures.

The original German patent states that dimehaqualone is around three times more potent that it's parent.

I also found the dissertation of a post graduate student in South Africa who identified the dozens of different compounds being sold as methaqualone. What I found most interesting is the fact that in the one nation on earth that still has a significant methaqualone problem, none of the analogues discovered had a para (4) substitution on that pendent aromatic. I mean, it would seem a no-brainer to sell dimethaqualone IF you could pretend it was methaqualone, but the fact it wasn't detected suggests that the users would not accept the stuff.

I've been witness to people smoking methaqualone and quite often they will smoke it. The Afrikans name for it is 'de wit pip' (the white pipe) and man, people were passing out and collapsing to the ground only to smoke another pipe 20 minutes later. I suggest that such people represent the majority of methaqualone (and analogues) sold and used on the streets of South Africa. So if plain methaqualone can do that - imagine the death toll if dimethaqualone were substituted.

Often stronger does not mean better.

Your last statement is very true. I would go so far as to say MOST times, stronger does not mean better.
When my sample comes I am going to consume it in the presence of two friends, one of which who has experience handling seizures (just incase)
I was thinking I would take a small amount of clonazepam with it to mitigate the seizures like I said before, but I', wondering if there be a significant risk of respiratory depression?

 

[4DQSAR]

@krkkhed - I would consider smoking maybe 50mg or less and testing out if it feels OK. Go slowly and accept the fact that unlike methaqualone, you likely cannot sit there and redose every 20 minutes until you pass out and sleep or (given the traditional user-base) pass out, get robbed and left to die in a gutter.

Sort of interesting and not simply POISON but likely needs to be treated with a LOT of respect. It's been on the RC market before and failed. I don't know what that tells us.

IF someone has a seizure - call the paramedics. Flush the stuff if you must but tonic-clonic seizures can kill. But mixing another CNS depressant isn't listed as a treatment for 'methaqualone overdose' as far as I could find out and in hospital, if someone stops breathing, they can be be artificially respirated.

Treatment of Methaqualone overdose with resin hemoperfusion - PMC

We recently utilized the technique of resin hemoperfusion (employing an Amberlite XAD-4 resin cartridge) to remove drug from a patient i deep coma after an estimated ingestion of greater than 4.5 grams of methaqualone. At plasma flow rates of 204 ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I found this but I put to you the thought that this was a case of 'heroic' intervention. If the patient is going to die, some doctors will just try to work the problem on the fly and report the outcomes.

I guess a paramedic who worked in NYC in the late 1970s would be the person to ask. I believe ODs from 'disco biscuits' became quite common.

I would actually KEEP a sample so if anything really strange occurs, they could have instumental analysis undertaken as at least one of the precursors IS very toxic and very nasty. It's also a 'dirty' reaction where you have to clean the product at least twice so if someone is cutting corners, who knows?

Stay safe - we don't want to see you in the BL shrine. But a report would be cool!

 

[krkkhed]

@krkkhed - I would consider smoking maybe 50mg or less and testing out if it feels OK. Go slowly and accept the fact that unlike methaqualone, you likely cannot sit there and redose every 20 minutes until you pass out and sleep or (given the traditional user-base) pass out, get robbed and left to die in a gutter.

Sort of interesting and not simply POISON but likely needs to be treated with a LOT of respect. It's been on the RC market before and failed. I don't know what that tells us.

IF someone has a seizure - call the paramedics. Flush the stuff if you must but tonic-clonic seizures can kill. But mixing another CNS depressant isn't listed as a treatment for 'methaqualone overdose' as far as I could find out and in hospital, if someone stops breathing, they can be be artificially respirated.

Treatment of Methaqualone overdose with resin hemoperfusion - PMC

We recently utilized the technique of resin hemoperfusion (employing an Amberlite XAD-4 resin cartridge) to remove drug from a patient i deep coma after an estimated ingestion of greater than 4.5 grams of methaqualone. At plasma flow rates of 204 ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I found this but I put to you the thought that this was a case of 'heroic' intervention. If the patient is going to die, some doctors will just try to work the problem on the fly and report the outcomes.

I guess a paramedic who worked in NYC in the late 1970s would be the person to ask. I believe ODs from 'disco biscuits' became quite common.

I would actually KEEP a sample so if anything really strange occurs, they could have instumental analysis undertaken as at least one of the precursors IS very toxic and very nasty. It's also a 'dirty' reaction where you have to clean the product at least twice so if someone is cutting corners, who knows?

Stay safe - we don't want to see you in the BL shrine. But a report would be cool!

it came today surprisingly. I first tried 5mg then 8 then 10. 12 gave me a very noticeable sedation and rush of euphoria (it was really slight though i could only compare it Ephinazone, unique rush but not very intense.) I would say this was more intense rush than ephinazone obviouslythough. Ill try some orally after work.
It is REALLY hard to smoke. It is extremely harsh. Way easier to sandwich it with weed but that feels like it doesnt work as well as in a burner or on foil.

 

[4DQSAR]

@krkkhed - That sounds odd. It might be worth your time reading about methaqualone use in South Africa. They use a specific method and maybe it's for a good reason. But that extra methyl shouldn't alter the MP significantly.

I've read that you end up with a grey powder and have to go through a second workup to get the pure product which is white. Is it white?

I guess it could be a salt and I don't think you can vape those. But in a way, if it is and you can't, maybe the supplier has the sense to realize that vaping the stuff will cause harm? But who knows?

Who knows what route was used but a common one to make the parent compound involves ortho toluidine which is nasty stuff. For dimethaqualone something similarly nasty might be used.

Maybe I'm overthinking this but you are clearly a sensible person so I'm only trying to figure out what potential issues might be in play.

I just want you to have a good outcome.

I appreciate your work. Stay safe and let us all know what goes on. Thanks.

 

[krkkhed]

@krkkhed - That sounds odd. It might be worth your time reading about methaqualone use in South Africa. They use a specific method and maybe it's for a good reason. But that extra methyl shouldn't alter the MP significantly.

I've read that you end up with a grey powder and have to go through a second workup to get the pure product which is white. Is it white?

I guess it could be a salt and I don't think you can vape those. But in a way, if it is and you can't, maybe the supplier has the sense to realize that vaping the stuff will cause harm? But who knows?

Who knows what route was used but a common one to make the parent compound involves ortho toluidine which is nasty stuff. For dimethaqualone something similarly nasty might be used.

Maybe I'm overthinking this but you are clearly a sensible person so I'm only trying to figure out what potential issues might be in play.

I just want you to have a good outcome.

I appreciate your work. Stay safe and let us all know what goes on. Thanks.

It is freebase powder. Sort of yellowy white. It is awful to smoke out of an oil burner or off foil, super harsh. It works really well sandwiched between weed, similar to how they do it in south africa if I remember correctly (mixed powder with tobacco and weed I think).
For anyone else wondering, this is my smoking method which I feel works real well (not 100% sure how much is lost though. maybe someone else can chime in on that)

SIT DOWN WHEN SMOKING!!!
1: Put a little layer of weed/tobacco/tea/ash/etc. I like to pack it down a bit so it kinda seals the hole and makes the pull of the air tighter and more powerful.
2: Load on some methylmethaqualone or other (idk which work to smoke but i do know some of them do). I usually do 10-14mg. 20mg makes me shake slightly and 25mg made me shake to a point I got a little worried. Will talk about dose later
3: Put a bit of weed or tobacco etc. ontop of the powder, enough to cover it fully and thick enough so direct flame wont touch the powder. I'm just assuming that burns it too fast and wastes it so I put a good layer ontop.
4: Light it for only a moment, circling around so the whole layer lights. Pull slowly and let the heat from the burning weed vaporize the powder. I tend not to snap it through fully but I pull most of the ash through when it's done.

For me, this is the best method for smoking it. Just like the DMT sandwich method. As for doses, I still haven't tried oral yet. I'm a bit cautious about that for some reason, smoking feels like it is easier to control.
The feeling you get is like a rush from...well something. It isn't quite benzo or opioid or barbituate like but there is a significant rush for sure, then your body feels completely exhausted. Again different from the sedation caused by other downers, it is more like total exhaustion and you just lose control of your limbs. You SHOULD be sitting down when you smoke but I have done it standing a few times and walking is possible but I threw myself onto my bed just cuz I wanted to lay down.
After the rush and initial sedation there is some euphoria and a little warmth it seems, but it is kind of weird in the way that when you notice the euphoria/warmth, it goes away and will come back when you're focused on something else. It feels kinda GHB like in its euphoria. Compared to Ephinazone (the only other lude related substance I've consumed) the rush and euphoria is way stronger and more noticeable, although the sedation of Ephinazone is smoother

I am 6 foot 2 and 160lbs. For me 14mg is best smoked

 

[4DQSAR]

The fact that the product isn't white IS a concern. I've heard that ortho toluidine smells something like burning rubber. I don't know if that helps. Obviously dimethaqualone is made using a related precusor but I suspect it to be similarly unhealthy,

If 14mg is the sweet spot but just 25mg is getting close to seizures - it's an issue.

@krkkhed is alive because he was smart enough to start way lower than even I expected. I can only apologize for what could have been a VERY bad day for them. This suggests to me that when vaped, it's potency is a lot higher than animal models suggest.

A duration of effects would be interesting to learn but I think we may now know why this stuff appeared and disappeared very quickly from the German RC scene.

BTW Ephinazone appears to be a 'brand name' and from the little I've read is quite a bit less potent. But it does strike me that a LOT of related compounds were tested and methaqualone was the one that became a medicine. It does appear that this is what is termed 'a small island of activity' i.e. as you modify, you quickly run into compounds with MORE issues.

There was a third wave of research into this class. The first provided methaqualone which was a success, the second saw nitromethaqualone get all the way to human trials before it's utility was questioned and then we got this in the third wave (HQ-335):

HQ-355

HQ-355 | C16H13FN2O | CID 63235 - structure, chemical names, physical and chemical properties, classification, patents, literature, biological activities, safety/hazards/toxicity information, supplier lists, and more.

pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

But by 1979 I feel that the benzodiazepines had been largely explored and there was beginning to be a fallout due to people's (ab)use of methaqualone that tainted the entire class. The above compound appears in a few journals such as here:

Sci-Hub | Studies on biologically active halogenated compounds. 1. Synthesis and central nervous system depressant activity of 2-(fluoromethyl)-3-aryl-4(3H)-quinazolinone derivatives. Journal of Medicinal Chemistry, 22(1), 95–99 | 10.1021/jm00187a021

But can I please underline that these are crude animal models. There is absolutely no certainty that such compounds are as safe and effective as a study devoted to showing a potential new product's safety and effectivness might imply.

Note that they tried the 2-methyl-3-chloro derivative which DID turn up in that dissertation by that South African student. But in this case it does appear that the simplest (compound 22) is almost as potent as disubstituted examples BUT I suggest that that 2-methyl represents a metabolically labile site i.e. the body will oxidize the methyl so it's going to be a much simpler task to work out the metabolic pathway. After all, rodents often metabolize things and so we always need to check that the metabolites are at least as safe as the active. While compound 24 MAY be reasonable, logic dictates that you start with the closest homologue to a medicine used for decades and across many nations so data collected on the prototype is more likely to accord with data collected on that closer homologue. Would a meta chloro prevent that metabolic pathway? Who knows. I would presume it more costly and with less certainty.

Why hasn't it turned up? Cost. On the upside, as far as I know, none of the chemicals described in Table 1 are subject to legal control BUT it would require someone to work out the most facile synthesis of that intermediate from commercially available chemicals. It would take a strong relationship between the vendor and the custom synthesis company tasked with it's synthesis because if you don't know the cost, they WILL try to ask the highest price they think they can get away with. Since 1979 a lot of new reaction schemes have been developed and often a 2 step route will actually work out cheaper than a 1 step route.