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Methoxetamine: Neurotoxic?

Considering that -
1. you can't spell neurotoxic
2. ketamine isn't considered to be neurotoxic, indeeed it may be neuroprotective
3. there's nothing in the literature (yet) about MXE

I would say no. Nothing is known about the neurotoxicity of MXE.
 
sekio said:
Considering that -
1. you can't spell neurotoxic
2. ketamine isn't considered to be neurotoxic, indeeed it may be neuroprotective
3. there's nothing in the literature (yet) about MXE

I would say no. Nothing is known about the neurotoxicity of MXE.
Click to expand...

sekio, putting aside the studies on ketamine cognitive effects, how harmful is k-hole dosage level ketamine use, say as compared to marijuana in terms of effects on memory/attention/learning? Is monthly use likely to have cognitive effects beyond 24 hours post dissociation? Most journals I've read seem to place it as a fairly potent "cognitive impairment" agent.
 
sekio said:
Considering that -
1. you can't spell neurotoxic
2. ketamine isn't considered to be neurotoxic, indeeed it may be neuroprotective
3. there's nothing in the literature (yet) about MXE

I would say no. Nothing is known about the neurotoxicity of MXE.
Click to expand...


This is taken from wikipedia about Ketamine that can be probably applied to other arylcyclohexylamine dissociatives:

Neurological effects

Main article: Olney's lesions
Chronic use of ketamine may lead to cognitive impairments including memory problems.[61] In 1989, psychiatry professor John Olney reported that ketamine caused irreversible changes in two small areas of the rat brain, which however has significant differences in metabolism from the human brain and therefore may not occur in humans.[62][63][64]

The first large-scale, longitudinal study of ketamine users found that heavy ketamine users had impaired memory by several measures, including verbal, short-term memory and visual memory. However occasional (1-2 times per month) ketamine users and ex-ketamine users were not found to differ from controls in memory, attention and psychological well-being tests. This suggests that occasional use of ketamine does not lead to prolonged harm and that any damage that might occur may be reversible when ketamine use is stopped; however, depression worsened even in the abstinent user group over the period of the study (one year), along with dissociative symptoms still existing among infrequent users.[65]

Short-term exposure of cultures of GABAergic neurons to ketamine at high concentrations led to a significant loss of differentiated cells in one study, and non-cell-death-inducing concentrations of ketamine (10 μg/mL) may still initiate long-term alterations of dendritic arbor in differentiated neurons. The same study also demonstrated that chronic (>24 h) administration of ketamine at concentrations as low as 0.01 μg/mL can interfere with the maintenance of dendritic arbor architecture. These results raise the possibility that chronic exposure to low, subanesthetic concentrations of ketamine, while not affecting cell survival, could still impair neuronal morphology and thus might lead to dysfunctions of neural networks.[66][67]

There is a long list of medicines that could counteract these potential toxic effects[dubious – discuss], including clonidine, anticholinergics, benzodiazepines, barbiturates and risperidone.[63][64][68]


Urinary tract effects

A study in Bristol reported in the British Medical Journal linked urinary tract disease with ketamine use. Symptoms reported by users included an increased need to urinate, passing blood in urine, leakage of urine and pain on urination. These symptoms may be associated with the scarification of the bladder lining, which leads to a shrunken bladder, erythema, and contact bleeding, and can then move to the ureters and damage the kidneys.[69]

Another small study found "marked thickening of the bladder wall, a small capacity, and perivesicular stranding, consistent with severe inflammation. At cystoscopy, all patients had severe ulcerative cystitis. Cessation of ketamine use, with the addition of pentosan polysulfate, appeared to provide some symptomatic relief."[70]

Many long term users report "K cramps".[71] The exact cause of these pains are unknown. The Ketamine induced abdominal pain is primarily limited to users of a gram or more of ketamine a day (route of administration does not seem to affect this symptom). It has been suggested that the amino acid Tyrosine may help alleviate the pain.[72]


Case reports of hepato-toxicity in chronic pain management

In case reports of three patients treated with S(+)ketamine for relief of chronic pain, liver enzyme abnormalities occurred following repeat treatment with ketamine infusions, with the liver enzyme values returning below the upper reference limit of normal range on cessation of the drug. The result suggests that liver enzymes have to be monitored during such treament.[73]
Click to expand...
 
sekio said:
Considering that -
1. you can't spell neurotoxic
2. ketamine isn't considered to be neurotoxic, indeeed it may be neuroprotective
3. there's nothing in the literature (yet) about MXE

I would say no. Nothing is known about the neurotoxicity of MXE.
Click to expand...

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...ontal-Gray-Matter-After-Chronic-Ketamine-Use?
Its your thread man, come on :(

Pretty much anything that blocks NMDA to such a extent will stop PFC grey matter maintenance, granted we're talking chronic use here.
 
Do note the gray matter study wasn't controlled for tobacco usage which is a known depleter of gray matter.

I'm of the mind that responsible A.C.H.amine usage is fine as long as it remains occasional. At the very least, dosing regularly leads to increased blood concentrations and a prolonged (burt mild) intoxicating afterglow that is likely responsible for memory deficits.

I guess in the end it's really a matter of the dosage and frequency. If you're burning through grams a day of MXE/ketamine you're going to suffer at some point, for sure. I've yet to see case reports of people with crippling memory loss after occasional ketamine usage, on the other hand. In fact, I've seen it recommended for treating depressive states and I've read other articles on the development of NMDA antagonists for neuroprotecton after e.g. strokes.

Only more in depth research will really tell the truth on this issue. And since these drugs are quasi-legal (or outright illegal in the case of e.g. ketamine/PCP), well, I don't expect lots of it.
 
I was profoundly addicted to Methoxetamine for seven and a half months; if my anecdotal experience with recovering from it might be of any help to this thread, I'd be happy to post some of my experiences. I cannot, unfortunately, contribute more than anecdotal speculation as to the neurotoxicity of the arylcyclohexylamine Methoxetamine specifically. However, I know the chemical well enough, and the long-term deficits it has caused me, just as well as I know my sense of humor. In other words, inextricably well :|

~ vaya
 
sekio said:
Considering that -
1. you can't spell neurotoxic
2. ketamine isn't considered to be neurotoxic, indeeed it may be neuroprotective
3. there's nothing in the literature (yet) about MXE

I would say no. Nothing is known about the neurotoxicity of MXE.
Click to expand...

Sekio, I think you are very arrogant, and your answer is very rude, and it´s not the first time I see it.
And you´re even a moderator who should be partialy responsible in keeping a good tone on this forum! And it´s also your "job" to make new comers feel welcome.

I think that freaktech´s question is a totally valid question to ask in ADD. Maybe there are no real facts known yet about MXEs neurotoxicity. But there are people here with enough knowledge to make educated guesses (you among one). And quite a lot of speculation has been made, while some people who have binged in MXE have first hand accounts of how daily MXE use has affected them.
I think this is the info freaktech is interested in.
And not some *shrug* "no one knows......"


Your commment about freaktech´s meaningless typo is completely pointless. Not everybody here are native english speakers.
 
Fagott said:
Sekio, I think you are very arrogant, and your answer is very rude, and it´s not the first time I see it.
And you´re even a moderator who should be partialy responsible in keeping a good tone on this forum! And it´s also your "job" to make new comers feel welcome.

I think that freaktech´s question is a totally valid question to ask in ADD. Maybe there are no real facts known yet about MXEs neurotoxicity. But there are people here with enough knowledge to make educated guesses (you among one). And quite a lot of speculation has been made, while some people who have binged in MXE have first hand accounts of how daily MXE use has affected them.
I think this is the info freaktech is interested in.
And not some *shrug* "no one knows......"


Your commment about freaktech´s meaningless typo is completely pointless. Not everybody here are native english speakers.
Click to expand...

yeah i see what your saying BUT experiences do not translate into neurotoxicity.

if i took cocaine for forty days straight and noticed deficits in my thinking for two months would that be neurotoxicity or receptor downregulation or reductions in enzymes used to make dopamine, etc.

you see where i'm coming from.
 
Fagott said:
Sekio, I think you are very arrogant, and your answer is very rude, and it´s not the first time I see it.
And you´re even a moderator who should be partialy responsible in keeping a good tone on this forum! And it´s also your "job" to make new comers feel welcome.

I think that freaktech´s question is a totally valid question to ask in ADD. Maybe there are no real facts known yet about MXEs neurotoxicity. But there are people here with enough knowledge to make educated guesses (you among one). And quite a lot of speculation has been made, while some people who have binged in MXE have first hand accounts of how daily MXE use has affected them.
I think this is the info freaktech is interested in.
And not some *shrug* "no one knows......"


Your commment about freaktech´s meaningless typo is completely pointless. Not everybody here are native english speakers.
Click to expand...

Thanks, you really understand me. Sekio sounds like devoted and unconditional defensor of drugs that he likes, and obstinate negationist of harm drugs. This conclusion seems evident with their rough response. I only formulated a question, and is very unwellcoming some attitudes. Yes, english isn´t my native languaje, but my erratum was a TYPING error, "r" is very close to "t", I can spell perfectly "neurotoxicity" word, Sekio, but i´m pretty sure that you can´t do the same with spanish languaje (my native languaje).
 
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