methadone withdrawal question

[popperstopper]

Hello-

I have been on/off addicted to norco for a coup;e of years, and just used methadone to try to get through withdrawal of norcos. I took 28 pills of methadone for 7 days, and stopped. This is day 3, and I have absolutely no withdrawal symptoms. I have been reading up on the threads about methadone addicition, and am scared that I took it too long or too much. Is 28 pills of methadone in 7 days enough for me to get addicted to methadone? Will I start having withdrawal symptoms of methadone with that amount of pills for that amount of days?

Thank you thank you, expecting the worst, but hoping to qualm my fears, I am worrying constantly about the methadone addiction....

 

[twotoomany]

What mg methadone pills? And hiw many/much norco were you taking? It would make a difference. Also, methadone has a super long half life. Seems like you may have been trying to kill a fly with a bazooka.

 

[helium-4]

Jumping from hydrocodone to methadone was kinda stupid, you likely just made your WDs worse than if you just jumped from the hydrocodone. if you had 5mg pills you were taking ~20mg a day, 10mg pills ~40mg a day. 20mg wouldn't be as bad, but jumping from 40mg after you already have an opioid tolerance will be potentially rough.

 

[popperstopper]

I was taking 4 10mg dones a day for 7 days. My withdrawals from norco have been hell to me, usually lasting 5-7 days, worst day being day 2 or 3.

But I completely stopped the norcos a day before taking the dones, and then started the 7 day course. I stopped cold turkey on the 8th day, and this is now day 10 and I do not feel any withdrawal symptoms at all.

I was taking about 10-15 norcs a day, but would only take for a couple weeks at a time, then withdrawal, stay off for a week or two, and back and forth for the last year. It has been hell, and I was so terrified of the withdrawls that I wanted to try something to get me through it. And I did a bunch of research on the web forums and clinics, and figured methadone was a good way to stop. So I did 40mg a day for 7 days straight, then nothing and am on day 3 of nothing.

I figure I should have felt some type of withdrawal by now if I was going to feel something, but I don't even have sniffles or cold chills or anything, so I am hoping I am out of it. But looking for some opinions, as I can't stop thinking about if I am going to be withdrawing for 7 days of methadone, as I heard it is terribly worse than norc withdrawal.

Thanks.

 

[Venrak]

What was your daily dosage of hydrocodone?

 

[popperstopper]

I guess my main question is this....did I take enough methadone for long enough to become addicted to the methadone?

40mg for 7 days, that's it.

 

[twotoomany]

I don't think it's about being addicted to methadone. Pretty sure you're addicted to opiates in general. I can switch from hydro to oxy to dilaudid and never suffer withdrawal till i switch to "nothing". Hate to be "that" guy, but I think you still have a pretty rough withdrawal ahead of you. The 'done just delayed your symptoms. I REALLY hope someone will jump in and tell me I'm wrong. I think you always have to pay the fiddler, even if you switch tunes a lot.

 

[popperstopper]

Then how can the methadone clinics do what they do? This is the concept I was trying to follow, so I don't understand it then I guess. I thought they are two different antagonists, and effect the receptors in a different way, but dones will mask the norc withdrawal for enough time for me to get past the main intense withdrawal period.

And maybe I "delayed" my withdrawals, but hopefully I took away the worst part of it with the dones, no? I am just so scared of what I've read about dones, and how long and terrible the withdrawal is. If I think norc withdrawal is bad, people are saying that methadone is way worse.

 

[twotoomany]

Methadone maintenance works on the principle of getting you stabilized, then slowly tapering the dosage down over time. It works due to its long half life which negates the need to redose, and its ability to block other opiates at high doses. Tolerance to euphoria from methadone also rises quickly, meaning your stabilized dose doesn't get you "high", in theory. I'm no expert on methadone, I'm just going off the basic research that I've done, and you might be totally fine. I personally hope you are.

Then how can the methadone clinics do what they do? This is the concept I was trying to follow, so I don't understand it then I guess. I thought they are two different antagonists, and effect the receptors in a different way, but dones will mask the norc withdrawal for enough time for me to get past the main intense withdrawal period.

And maybe I "delayed" my withdrawals, but hopefully I took away the worst part of it with the dones, no? I am just so scared of what I've read about dones, and how long and terrible the withdrawal is. If I think norc withdrawal is bad, people are saying that methadone is way worse.

 

[pasha]

Just because they have two different sites of action, it doesn't mean they don't have cross-tolerance - meaning they are able to cover it each others withdrawals, and impose the same effects. It can be compared to taking two different benzodiazepines, each acting at different sub-units, yet they are easily interchangeable without major ill effects. This means one can cross-over from alprazolam (xanax) to lorazepam (ativan) without a problem. At the same time one can cross-over from hydromorphone to oxymorphone without a problem either. Of course if the opioid crossed over from has a weaker potency or is not used at an equipotent dose to the substance you crossed-over to, withdrawal and ill effects are possible as the cross-action will not be as complete (cross-action will never be complete as they are different substances with different mechanisms-of-action).

An example of this would be using codeine to combat fentanyl withdrawals which be impractical. In the case of hydrocodone to methadone, you've certainly taken a high enough dose of a much more potent opioid to cover you.

To your question in regards to not experiencing withdrawals, methadone has a long half-life, and generally it takes several half-lives for a drug to be completely inactive. Anecdotally, I've seen people on this forum mentioning taking one massive methadone dose once a week and having it hold them for the entirety of the week without any problems. So it might be possible that the methadone is still holding you especially if your dose of hydrocodone (something which you haven't shared yet) was low-moderate. You delaying your withdrawal is what I would bet on.

 

[Venrak]

OP, that isn't the way it works, unfortunately. Methadone is a full agonist at µ-opioid receptors, and one with a very long half life, which is one of the reasons it is used in opiate cessation therapy. Another reason is that its levorotary form has NMDA receptor antagonist properties, which has been shown lately to have a positive impact on cravings and tolerance.

It works the same way your hydrocodone does, only due to its half life it tends to take a while before withdrawals are felt.

You're going to have to find a way to stay well, or come up with a plan to help mitigate your symptoms and be as comfortable as possible

Click the second link from right in my signature... That should help clear things up a bit in your mind and give you some comfort and control over the situation.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Then how can the methadone clinics do what they do? This is the concept I was trying to follow, so I don't understand it then I guess. I thought they are two different antagonists, and effect the receptors in a different way, but dones will mask the norc withdrawal for enough time for me to get past the main intense withdrawal period.

They are not opioid antagonists at all, an antagonist is something that blocks something. They are both mu-opioid receptor agonists. Methadone doesn't "mask" opioid withdrawal, it alleviates it, because it is an opioid too. If a person takes methadone to relieve withdrawal from another opioid and then stops abruptly they will still get withdrawal symptoms.

I personally don't think the additional very slight NMDA antagonism of methadone plays that big a role, and regardless it wouldn't make there not be cross tolerance and cross dependence with other opioids.

Using methadone to get off other opioids is not at all like using a totally unrelated non-opioid drug to get off an opioid. You can't just take methadone not long enough to get addicted to it, because it is an opioid and you are already dependent on opioids.

Methadone clinics tend to have 2 options: switching to methadone long-term, or using methadone to gradually taper off opioids. For the latter option you would just take the minimum amount of methadone needed to relieve your withdrawals and then lower the dose until you are down to a very low dose when you stop completely, with the idea being to lessen the withdrawals by allowing your body to (at least somewhat) adjust to the increasingly lower doses. In my experience that only works well when you haven't taken methadone for very long.

Given that you only took the methadone for a week and methadone will leave your system much more slowly than hydrocodone, and therefore withdrawals come on much more slowly/gradually - you might be ok because it might lessen the severity of your withdrawals. But it's hard to say. Let me know if you want more explanation of this part. How are you feeling now?

 

[laCster]

dude dont go on methadone for a hydrocodone habit. methadone is an extremely potent opioid, and has a super long half life. these two factors are cause your tolerance to skyrocket and you will end up worse than you started. methadone should be a last resort after trying to quit a moderate heroin, oxymorphone, dilaudid, or a large oxycodone habit. otherwise if you were only an frequent user of opiates, had a somewhat moderate tolerance. (50-90mg hydrocodone, or 45-90mg oxycodone) then bupre aka suboxone or subutex is the best option IMO. i have tried methadone before, but i have never been on MT, so i cannot speak for how well it works. i have heard alot about methadone withdrawal though and it is a nightmare. yes you are switching one drug for the other but bupre or methadone allows you to have a much more stable life.

maybe try low dose suboxone SL. start at 2mg SL which is like 1mg nasal which is equal to about 40-50mg hydrocodone. then taper down from there, or stabalize on a dose (below 2mg) and stay on it long term. i have taken suboxone and subutex for the past 9 months and they really help with cravings and withdrawal symptoms. bupre also gives me a nice little mood lift in the morning and helps me sleep at night.

 

[oxyschottin]

This is why the methadone stigma can really hurt people I wish there was more readily available info on it so people wouldn't make this mistake. IMO you would have been much better Off tapering the hydro and maybe have a couple methadones on hand for if the withdrawal was absolutely unbearable but usually ime people can taper off hydro pretty successfully.