methadone or heroin withdrawls??

[fizzymk]

OK, so I havent had ANY methadone since Sept 25th...prior to getting dischrged from my pain mgt doctor for a dirty urine screen, they had me on methadone 20mg 3x a day, but I usually took about 60-100 mg a day, of course would run out early each month, which I then used H until I could my script filled again.

Once I got discharged, I started using H much more, since 9-25, Ive pretty much been using every day to every other day, on days I dont have any heroin to wake up with, I do have w/ds but since about 4 days ago, the physical part of it doesnt seem to be as bad as methadone body w/ds normally are...so Im thinking the physical part of methadone w/d may be done and over with, but still have a runny nose, sneezing, head cold type symptoms during the times I dont have H in my system...once the H starts wearing off, I dont really have body aches like I used to when using methadone on a regular basis ( I remember having HORRIBLE body aches with methadone w/ds).

Im thinking I am now experiencing just basic Heroin w/ds, the worst are the constant head cold, sneezing like 5 times in a row, head ache, RLS at night, not getting much sleep, diarrhea, but because I cop and use H so frequently now, I only experience this shit inbetween the times I run out and when I cop again, normally is around a day or 2 at the most.

Im hoping Im all done with the methadone w/ds, but the heroin w/ds are no walk in the park. Anyone know since the body aches are subsiding, does this mean Im done with the methadone w/ds?

 

[Erikmen]

I don´t think you still have methadone in your system.
Methadone withdraws are horrible. Way worse than heroin. But still very harsh.
The problem is how long the drug stays in your system.
The real methadone w/d starts after 4 days, and goes on to 10-15 days.
It´s a very strong and potent medication and it can only be taken away very slowly under medical supervision.
If you used to have 100 mg you would probably had to take 10 mg down every 1-2 weeks until you are stable at 15-20 mg.
Nevertheless you will still feel w/d for few days. For some it takes almost a month. Your body will then search for ways to produce its own endorphin by itself. That alone only can take months. Coming off opiates make you very tired.
From what you explained earlier I think you are off methadone, specially because you were high on heroin.
Normally the effects of other opiates, including heroin, when using more than 70-80 mg of methadone, are blocked and you would have to take too much to feel too little.

 

[fizzymk]

Yeah, I definitely know how horrible methadone w/ds can be, what happened was, at the time my doctors office called to tell me they had found morphine in my recent drug screen and tell me I was being discharged, I only had less than (20) 10mg methadone left, I should have had over 70 though, they told me they were going to ween me off the methadone but very quickly (given the circumstances, Im sure they were not considering my comfort), they took me down 5mg per week, and the entire weening process would take about 3 weeks, apparently they had done the math and figured I had enough pills to last me for this length of time...of course they didnt know I was abusing them and I figured it wouldnt make a difference if I told them...they were not going to refill my script anyway.

When this all happend, of course, I panicked, I had been on methadone for over 10+ yrs...but I decided I was going to use H more to get thru the w/ds...that was over 2 months ago, longest Ive went without H since then is about 3-4 days and that was HELL, but I think most of it could have actually been the methadone w/d.

Ive been spending most of my money on H since then too, barely making my bills, so I know I cant go on like this, Im trying to get into a subox program, but around my area, not many doctors that have programs, and the ones that do, are filled, have 6 month waiting lists.

 

[neversickanymore]

The methadone should have cleared your system ages ago and the withdrawals you are now having are from the H.

Sounds like your on a nasty roler coster.. might just want to bite the bullet for a week and be free from the physical handcuffs.. then through the paws and out in under a year.. then all is left is the addiction and you can learn to deal with that.

You can do this!!

 

[methamaniac]

My experience,
I tried to switch to other weaker opiates for like 2 months and still got full whammy.
It would be nice to just use H for 2-3 months and skip MD withdrawls. Unfortunately from my experience doesnt work that way. (Not that that is what your trying to do)
Especially the longer on MD.
MD messes up so many of the body's normal functions, and they dont begin to return to normal until all opiates are ceased.
Your body needs time to get back on right "frequency". Usually (no not always)
takes good three months.
Im around that mark and still have symptoms.
They are getting weaker, but stress seems to fire them up. I caught a cold and the mac truck of wds came back for about a week.
Light at end of tunnel getting brighter and brighter.
I didnt have it in me to see if long term switching to weaker opiate may work.
Thing is, you have to go thru withdrawls to know.
Would be curious to know if anyone successfully tapered from md with weaker opiate.
Specifically how long the wds were.
Not for me, but for others. I've had enough lol
Getting to point where I feel like I can help others suffering. Dont want to give bad advice.

 

[fizzymk]

My experience,
I tried to switch to other weaker opiates for like 2 months and still got full whammy.
It would be nice to just use H for 2-3 months and skip MD withdrawls. Unfortunately from my experience doesnt work that way. (Not that that is what your trying to do)
Especially the longer on MD.
MD messes up so many of the body's normal functions, and they dont begin to return to normal until all opiates are ceased.
Your body needs time to get back on right "frequency". Usually (no not always)
takes good three months.
Im around that mark and still have symptoms.
They are getting weaker, but stress seems to fire them up. I caught a cold and the mac truck of wds came back for about a week.
Light at end of tunnel getting brighter and brighter.
I didnt have it in me to see if long term switching to weaker opiate may work.
Thing is, you have to go thru withdrawls to know.
Would be curious to know if anyone successfully tapered from md with weaker opiate.
Specifically how long the wds were.
Not for me, but for others. I've had enough lol
Getting to point where I feel like I can help others suffering. Dont want to give bad advice.

Well, I was trying to avoid the horrible methadone w/ds by using h, still am to a degree, but at this point, Ive come to like the H more than I did the methadone.

IMO, it would be one thing if each day got better and better, but I know its actually the opposite with opiate w/ds, each day gets worse and worse over a period of time...this really kind of pisses me off...I mean, I thought the human body was this amazing creation that could quickly deal with shit like this...but with opiate w/ds, it seems our bodies/minds literally go 'above and beyond' to make your life as much of a living HELL as absolutely possible...example, bad enough trying to make it thru the days going thru this shit, but a person withdrawling cant even rely on time at night sleeping!!!! The w/ds usually keeps them so miserable, they get ANY sleep at all...to top it all off...ALL of this lasts for SOOO fucking long..CMON..I find it hard to believe the amazing human body takes that long and goes to such a degree, JUST because a single substance is not used anymore. LOL

Why dont people who give up other food/drink go thru such things? after all, foods we eat effect out entire body and not just one part of it..??? Im sorry to ramble on about this, it just seems to me a person who chooses to use opiates or other drugs pays for it in the end, Im not mad at anyone on here, more like, pissed off about how our bodies and minds work when it comes to opiates...Im not sure on my beliefs when it comes to God and all, but it sure seems to me, whoever/whatever created us, designed us in a piss poor way in this regard.

 

[Erikmen]

But Methadone is not meant to be liked, so to speak.
I take mine and it´s just like aspirin. You get used to them and it does not matter if you take more, after sometime.
It makes me stay away from opiates. It really happened after a while.
And I could have a 'normal' life. No more suffering from what you sometimes relate.
You have to give it sometime and try not or do not use h. while you are on methadone.
You did that and the reaction is pretty much alike for anyone who does.
What I´m trying to say is this is possible. No w/d, but keep doing it by the book for a while and you´ll see the benefits.

 

[Erikmen]

The methadone should have cleared your system ages ago and the withdrawals you are now having are from the H.

Sounds like your on a nasty roler coster.. might just want to bite the bullet for a week and be free from the physical handcuffs.. then through the paws and out in under a year.. then all is left is the addiction and you can learn to deal with that.

You can do this!!

Fizz,
This is what I´m trying to tell you from day 1.
It works. For millions of people. After all that´s what mmt is for.
Of course in the beginning it won´t be like a dream coming through but you won´t suffer w/d.
And you would be free from H..and soon not even crave so much.
You can do this!

 

[neversickanymore]

Would be curious to know if anyone successfully tapered from md with weaker opiate.
Specifically how long the wds were.

allot at play with this question.

Does switching over to an opiate with a shorter half life create positive results. IMO it certainly does in many cases. Its still a give and take like every damn thing in life. In order for it to work well it requires taking the replacement opiate for two weeks, and exspierincing some probable minor withdrawals during this time period. Then a person still has the standard kick from the replacement opiate they chose.

This is only the opiate segment of the methadone equation. Here is a great explanation of the scope of methadone.

Neuropathic Pain: Causes, Management and Understanding


So even if someone does this they are still likely left with multiple and major neurochemical imbalance issues to go through. Still if I knew then what I know now I surely would have taken the two weeks to flop over to a different opiate.

 

[Erikmen]

I read the link but didn´t understand your comment on neurochemical imbalanced issues.
I personally think methadone is better than switching to weaker opiates because of the euphoria.
One of the good valuable things about mmt is the lack of euphoria which causes addiction faster.
Maybe in the beginning you may feel well and it could last for few days, maybe a week or so,
but not on the long term.
Really interested about neuro imbalance issues..
Never mind, I´ll figure it out. It comes with a lot of side effects to sum up, I guess.

 

[neversickanymore]

So its a full opiate agonist. Its a NMDA antagonist and both a SSRI and a Noradrenaline RI. Whenever a chemical is added to the brain it will try and adjust for the addition of the chemical. When the chemical is suddenly removed it, the system can be thrown really out of whack. Since methadone manipulates so many powerful neurotransmitters all at once, the effects created from removing it can be very profound.

Kinda like kicking herion, prozac, ketamine all at the same time while dealing with possibly a temp noradrenaline deficiency. This reflection is not meant to provide an exact model by any means.. Its a representation of a commonly recognized SSRI and NMDA antagonist and I have no idea how the scale of effect match up.

 

[Erikmen]

Thank you very much NSA!! It´s really something that will be difficult to deal with..but not today.

 

[FEDOR85]

I did exactly what fizzy did. When I went off methadone I took heroin for a few months cos the methadone wds were way to extreme and drawn out. Heroin is the lesser of 2 evils when it comes to opiates, I was physically better after a week of cold turkeying off heroin, whereas it takes months and months for md withdrawal symtoms to go.

Taking methadone was the worst decision I ever made, and ive made some shit decisions in my life

 

[fizzymk]

I read the link but didn´t understand your comment on neurochemical imbalanced issues.
I personally think methadone is better than switching to weaker opiates because of the euphoria.
One of the good valuable things about mmt is the lack of euphoria which causes addiction faster.
Maybe in the beginning you may feel well and it could last for few days, maybe a week or so,
but not on the long term.
Really interested about neuro imbalance issues..
Never mind, I´ll figure it out. It comes with a lot of side effects to sum up, I guess.

For me, when I was taking methadone regularly, it DID give me quite a bit of euphoria, long term too...it took all my aches and pains away, made me feel good in the head, sociable, etc. And really, back then, I actually preferred methadone versus Heroin,as I thought the methadone effects were far longer lasting, and also much cheaper..my monthly methadone script was less than $25....that amount doesnt buy much H!

However, if I had it all to do over, i would NEVER touch methadone again, IMO, its just as euphoric and addictive as H (or even more), but Ive also heard other people claim methadone doesnt do anything for them, besides take away the w/d symptoms, so I guess it effects different people in different ways.

 

[Freon]

FUCKIN NEITHER short answer.....too high for long answer but yea u get it.

 

[inthetriptank]

i agree...just got off methadone one november 5th, and am still having residual sneezing, fatigue, GI issues, etc. i had tapered down pretty quickly, but was only on 8 mg when i jumped off, so was expecting to be over the wd's by this point. i definitely should have thought more about getting on MMT in the first place, it was a 5-year detour that is proving to be a long term project to get free of.

 

[methamaniac]

^
So worth it tho!
MD wasnt the worst decision of my life,
but getting off of has been the best decision of my life if that makes sense.
Keep plowing thru the days I know you will make cause its been a month almost.
Anyone that has kicked MD knows this is saying a lot!
Im three months in and feeling better and better.
Not there yet, but have came light years from the beginning.
Its gets better I promise!