Opioids Methadone Mega Thread and FAQ v 2.0

[tyler5]

been on 120mg/day and i have to say i can ALMOST skip a day at this point, its so far in me, in my joints, in my bones etc... in the beginning, if i didnt get it 23.5hrs after last dose, i was in WD, now i can SLEEP like 5-6hrs after 24h have gone by, then get up, not even go running to my car to get to my methadone. so thats good, i think
i also use 15mg xanax/day or 300mg valium/day, whatever you wanna call it, i use 10-12 diff. benzos and write em all down time and amount taken so the last two months has come to about 15-18mg/xanax day, 300-380mg valium day.

 

[brutus]

I unnaproved a lot of posts. Let's stay on topic.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

I unnaproved a lot of posts. Let's stay on topic.

What he said.

This is the methadone megathread.

 

[Bigazznugz]

Tyler u.are idiot gtfo

 

[-Guido-]

been on 120mg/day and i have to say i can ALMOST skip a day at this point, its so far in me, in my joints, in my bones etc... in the beginning, if i didnt get it 23.5hrs after last dose, i was in WD, now i can SLEEP like 5-6hrs after 24h have gone by, then get up, not even go running to my car to get to my methadone. so thats good, i think
i also use 15mg xanax/day or 300mg valium/day, whatever you wanna call it, i use 10-12 diff. benzos and write em all down time and amount taken so the last two months has come to about 15-18mg/xanax day, 300-380mg valium day.

Methadone doesn't get in your joints and bones.

Also you are fucking idiot for the amount of benzos you are on. That's just plain disgusting.

It's irresponsible people like you that give Methadone Patients a bad reputation and make the program all the more difficult.

 

[adder]

I don't know why you would call someone an idiot just because of the amount of drugs he/she takes. I can perfectly understand that methadone does NOT keep someone for 24 hours at a dose not high enough. I used methadone for 2.5 years and I had to take it twice a day or I would feel the start of withdrawal in the evening. I think split-dosing is a better option than taking very high doses of methadone. Splitting the dose should lower it overall, otherwise it's necessary to push it very high, so there's a decent amount of the drug still acting at the end of the day (e.g. for me 30mg + 15mg was better than 60mg at once in the morning). The lower the dose, the better because when it comes to getting off methadone, high dose that was meant to keep withdrawal away for 24h is going to cause withdrawal much worse than any withdrawal from heroin, morphine, or any other short-acting strong full agonist. I tapered it down (from 30mg a day IIRC down to 5-7mg) and 2 months later I was taking codeine only to kill prolonged physical withdrawal, another month later I was placed on Suboxone. Now as I look back, I wish I had never substituted morphine with methadone, I thought I would feel more stable and I needed it at the university, I was wrong. It made me depressed and slowed down my thinking like nothing else before and I experienced terrible paranoia during withdrawal. I'd rather keep taking morphine or whichever other "classic" opioid than take methadone.

As for high dose of benzodiazepines, beyond some level there's hardly any difference in anxiolytic effect. When I was on clonazepam, I felt no difference between 20mg and 60mg. Why make yourself so much more tolerant if there's no perceptible benefit?

 

[dankster320]

100 mg + methadone gets me higher than any tar and just fucking lasts forrever... i love it, but thats me methadone is dangerous as fuck and anyone not junked out already id advise to not touch its made for heroin addicts for a reason... i dont care how much ox or bla bla unless you shoot... its to strong a drug and only produces great euphoria in high doses.. that would kill a casual opiate user.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Methadone doesn't get in your joints and bones.

On the surface the whole "methadone gets in your bones" or "methadone rots your bones" thing sounds like an urban legend, but it may not be entirely crazy. Opioids can be detected in teeth and bones. So while methadone can get in your bones, so can other drugs. Methadone maintenance is also associated with low bone mineral density. There are opioid receptors on osteoblasts, the cells responsible for bone formation. So it bugs me that methadone clinics tell people that methadone can't enter the bones or teeth and doesn't affect them or damage them in any way.

 

[Sick-Boy]

Considering the discussion is now involving people both on Benzodiazepines and Methadone, I assume it is indeed possible to be prescribed both Methadone and Benzo's?
My situation being, I've been on Benzodiazepines for well over 10 years now, I currently am prescribed 4 MG Ativan PRN, and am going to likely change to Xanax as the Ativan isn't helping enough with what I'm currently going through.
I am Schizoaffective, with Insomnia, and though many of the delusional and paranoid thoughts have finally subsided over the course of many years, when they do resurface (now generally for a days period after certain situations/triggers bring me back into such a state,) the only thing that really helps is the Benzo's. Seriously fuck the Anti-Psychotics, they've done next to nothing.
In addition bennies are the only drug that keeps me asleep, and despite making it sound like a wonder drug, it's helped with a number of other problems I've faced.
Yet often I've been told one cannot be on both Methadone and Benzo's, this being one of the reasons I'm hesitant to utilize Methadone.
So to clarify, can such things be made exceptions for individuals with a long history of Benzodiazpine and heavy Opiate usage?

Now for a summation of my current situation:
I've been on Suboxone for the past 8 months, while using Heroin for 3 years (on and off the first year, then once every three-five days partially through the second year, until I became addicted, at which point I managed to get on Suboxone.) However during all this time I still frequently used Heroin, even having a method to use small doses of Heroin as I came off the Subs so I felt no discomfort, and am now able to actually get fully high after around 16-20 hours from my last Sub dose. My assumption at the time being that I'd not only be able to use Heroin as I please, but not suffer the withdrawals, and have the Suboxone to relieve cravings. Well, much like many of my other "well laid" plans involving Heroin, it worked quite well for a while.
But eventually I began to crave Heroin more, and I began using massive amounts, going on long binges, to the point where I'd be withdrawing worse on the Suboxone than my friends were when they had nothing. (And I am aware of precipitated withdrawal, I've waited over 24 hours at times and still felt worse than I ever had even without the Subs.)
At this point, I haven't the money to fund my addiction any longer, I can still get around 50-60 bags a month, (at $10 a pop) 13 bags usually being a 1 1/2 day "light" binge, though the desired 20-30 few day indulgences are what I am more in favor of.
No sooner than I'm off and back on the Subs, withdrawal aside, I have such profound cravings I can only compare them to a new bodily function that is in dire need of attention. An urgency equatable, to me, to having to use the bathroom badly after holding it in for hours past "really needing to go" yet not having a means to, while having a panic attack, an immense amount of chaos swirling within oneself, emotions going haywire, and strong suicidal compulsions running through oneself as it seems less probable Heroin can be acquired. This, coupled with the knowledge that all these cravings, unpleasantries, distress, and any form of withdrawal will not only be gone once Heroin is obtained, but I'll be feeling complete and utter bliss the likes of which even God's dream of...
Until I'm out... And the madness starts again.
All of this and I still love Heroin more than words can convey. The thought alone of never being able to use again causes strong suicidal ideations... I've made attempts before, but it would seem no matter what it is I down, my body seems unable to drop from any overdose. I'm fairly certain only a gun would work at this rate. (And please, don't assume any of this is for pity, when I started using Heroin the plan was to die young, somewhere between the next 5-8 years max. Call it what you will, but 8 mental institutions later, and more Anti-Psychotics, Anti-Depressants, Mood Stabilizers to such an extent it's like a bloody pharmacy I take everyday, along with quite a deal of putting my best foot forward to get my life on track, I've virtually given up.)
But I digress, just not in a good place right now.

To continue, as any junky dreams, if only I had an endless supply there would be no more problems (I would gladly live such a life all the way through.) Or more realistically, if the Heroin maintenance programs now popular in much of Europe were to finally be granted in America, for fuck sake I'd be good as gold.

Yet this brings me now to Methadone.
Though the only clinic fitting my needs is unfortunately a 45 minute drive there, and 45 minutes back. (This particular clinic will increase your dose as high as you care, and will allow you to remain on it the rest of your life if you so desire.) From one assessing my situation as best they can, firstly would it seem likely this to be a drug that would not only be worth the constant drive, but good enough to finally take away the cravings?
Secondarily, (though there is discussion involving this already within this topic,) from personal experience, is it possible to at least maintain a consistent buzz on Methadone provided a high enough dose is reached? (I've heard of people on it saying they still get light nods, and basically feeling some levels of euphoria and bliss during their time on the drug. Not compared to the almighty hefty shot of Heroin, but still something quite nice.)
Obviously, though NA/AA would object and say I'm not curing my "illness" but looking for other means to get high, I personally say, fuck that. If I can maintain this without any more damned legal problems, without running out of money and doing everything in my power to obtain my fix, then, though I'll indeed miss Heroin and the lifestyle behind it, I would turn to Methadone (that is until a miracle happens and America finally allows Heroin maintenance.)
And likewise, if it means the only way I can keep getting a nice little high from the drug is to keep on raising my dose, I'm down.

Anyway folks, this isn't written nearly as well as I'd have liked. Too filled with emotional garbage and unorganized. I prefer being thorough, and would normally give a synopsis at the end to clarify things. But fuck, off the Dope for around 48 hours, been up the past 24, drank a good amount of wine and took more Benzo's than I would typically just to keep that damned impulsive, Heroin driven panic attack as low as possible. (Fortunately this time I managed to keep the withdrawals low due to a type of personal Heroin taper.)

Again folks, I do apologize for this clutter, with questions not entirely always too clear, but if anyone feels they can offer insight, please do.

 

[WBROCKSTAR]

Well sickboy I dont know how much insite I can give,but heres my two cents.Ive been a patient at a methadone clinic for 1.5 years,Im on 100 mg daily and I have never once got high on it.I have several friends that get high off of it,so I think its dependant on each individual persons experience whether youll get high or not....Yes the long drive sucks,but youll gradually get takehomes so the drive will slack off in time....Methadone clinics generally wont allow(for any reason)you to take benzos cause that combined with methadone is the biggest od combo on the planet....Youll be dismissed from the program for more than 2 failed ua,s from benzos.....I think it works much better than subs for cravings too....The only way methadone maintenance works is if you get excited about not bein sick vs using it to try to get high....I will choose no withdrawals,still having money in my pocket,etc vs the bullshit that comes with tryin to either find heroine to buy,not having the money to buy it,legal issues,and 10 other things or problems the alternative brings with it....Good luck on your decision bro

 

[Sick-Boy]

Well sickboy I dont know how much insite I can give,but heres my two cents.Ive been a patient at a methadone clinic for 1.5 years,Im on 100 mg daily and I have never once got high on it.I have several friends that get high off of it,so I think its dependant on each individual persons experience whether youll get high or not....Yes the long drive sucks,but youll gradually get takehomes so the drive will slack off in time....Methadone clinics generally wont allow(for any reason)you to take benzos cause that combined with methadone is the biggest od combo on the planet....Youll be dismissed from the program for more than 2 failed ua,s from benzos.....I think it works much better than subs for cravings too....The only way methadone maintenance works is if you get excited about not bein sick vs using it to try to get high....I will choose no withdrawals,still having money in my pocket,etc vs the bullshit that comes with tryin to either find heroine to buy,not having the money to buy it,legal issues,and 10 other things or problems the alternative brings with it....Good luck on your decision bro

Thank you very much, I have made a call to the Methadone clinic I'd plan to go to, I had inquired about the Benzo question and they said considering my history with it, it's a question that would need to be brought to the supervisor of their program. So I am still holding on to hope that I'll be able to maintain having both, as though I don't get my high from Benzo's, (though indeed a light, but pleasant buzz) as I've mentioned they've been greatly helpful throughout my life.
I've also been considering looking into the Poppy Seed Tea method I was recommended here a few months back when I was experiencing extreme withdrawal from Heroin after switching back to Suboxone.
Many members recommended using this method, but unfortunately I didn't pursue looking further into it as for the rest of that particular month I literally went on the largest binge of my life; a full month, non-stop Heroin usage. The first time I actually did something reprehensible to maintain my usage, that being depleting virtually all the funds my Father had set aside for me in case of an emergency, coupled with the $500 I receive from SSI, ($250 of which he takes out for living expenses) and a slight surplus of money I had from performing odd jobs on the side. This totaling to $3500 for roughly 375 bags of extremely good shit. (Unfortunate I don't have a weight connect or I'd have probably needed half of what I paid to get the same amount.)
This culminated into me going into a detox, rehab for 15 days, which overall was a waste. I actually ended up leaving sicker than I did coming in due to contracting some norovirus that stayed with me for quite some time after leaving.

After reading a post by another member mentioning how many Heroin addicts, after even getting clean are sparingly able to ever truly enjoy life again, and always miss their drug of choice, I indeed worry. Though it's only been slightly over 3 days since my last dose, (with the Suboxone now finally actually quelling the withdrawal completely) I've noticed I'm barely able to find any joy in anything. Something that normally would have me laughing quite heavily results in a very brief laugh, followed by a depressive feeling as if something is lacking, no longer there within me. Obviously it's far too early to tell, but I do worry if things can ever return to the way they once were, at least in regards to being able to feel enjoyment.
The only thing I've found solace in, is watching old home movies taken from my childhood, as I stare into them seeing how profoundly different things were, all while realizing the child I see within these videos was so blissfully unaware as to what his adulthood would hold for him. Despite sounding as if this would be quite depressing, somehow I seem to find myself absorbed into those times, recalling various instances they bring about within me I'd long since forgotten.

In regards to regaining previous feelings of enjoyment, it's all obviously too early to tell.
As for the Methadone, I'll let everyone know more information when I find it out.
Cheers.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Hi Sick-Boy - For me, methadone did not alleviate my cravings for heroin, I went back to heroin and used heroin on top of my methadone for years while on methadone. But I didn't try a really high dose or constantly escalating dose of methadone (aside from a few relatively small increases over the years). As for getting high on methadone maintenance, after the first few weeks I couldn't feel it, all it did was alleviate my withdrawals. I really regret being on methadone long-term for many reasons. And it's very easy to end up on it long-term or for life. Do you have no desire to get off opioids and work on dealing with depression, anxiety, anhedonia, etc in other healthier ways? Does the idea of constantly raising your methadone dose every time you grow tolerance to the mild high and ending up with an enormous tolerance to a drug with worse and way longer-lasting withdrawals than heroin concern you? Even if the answers to those questions are no, you might feel differently in the future.

 

[Znegative]

On the surface the whole "methadone gets in your bones" or "methadone rots your bones" thing sounds like an urban legend, but it may not be entirely crazy. Opioids can be detected in teeth and bones. So while methadone can get in your bones, so can other drugs. Methadone maintenance is also associated with low bone mineral density. There are opioid receptors on osteoblasts, the cells responsible for bone formation. So it bugs me that methadone clinics tell people that methadone can't enter the bones or teeth and doesn't affect them or damage them in any way.

Yeah, after a year on 100mg/day MMT, i had some tests done and I found out that I had Osteopenia (think that's how its spelled) which is a pre-cursor to Osteoperosis. I should mention I am a male, which is what made the whole thing even stranger. However, I don't want to be too quick to blame methadone completely or single it out, as I was savagely shooting coke the whole year I was on methadone and engaging in a lot of other drug use. Still, it is odd.

Sick-Boy-
First off I have to take an hour train ride to get to my clinic (and it obviously takes an hour back as well). While its a real pain in the ass, It can be a good thing as its gotten me to start my day earlier, and I've found that I am actually a person that needs a little bit of structure. As for your question regarding a consistant buzz at a high enough dosage of Methadone...Well, sadly I have to tell you that IME, the higher I've gone on my methadone the more sedating and less euphoric my daily dose would become. That's why on my second try at MMT I have decided to stay at 50mg and go no higher, and I must say, these lower dosages (40 I think is perfect), I do get a consistant mood lift every day after I dose. The only problem is that 50mg will not block other opiates, which has been a problem for me. My best advice is if you want to stay on a low dose of methadone, DON'T mess around with heroin or anything else, because if you do it enough, you will be stuck in the screwed up situation I've found myself in, where my methadone seems to completely run out of my system by 6-7pm, and I end up copping everyday-and now I'm at the point where I'm using as much dope on top of the methadone that I had used before I ever got on the program to begin with, and kicking is going to be much, much harder.

Also, like SD said, Methadone has really not alleviated my craving for heroin, at least no more than Buprenorphine. However, I really think that there will never be a miracle Opiate Replacement Drug that will be capable of this feat unless they start giving out increasingly larger and larger dosages of Heroin itself, or another short acting, highly lipid soluble Opiate that will likely never be used for maintenance anyway.

Oh and as for being on Benzodiazepines while on Methadone, you definitely can be on both, at least at all the clinics around me. However some of them wont allow you to get extra take home bottles even if you piss clean and stop using other opiates. I'm not sure what the rules are at your clinic but I imagine that they would allow you to be on both (Mine did-I used to take Clonazepam, but now I'm on Alprazolam as well as Adderall which they are fine with too), though your psychiatrist may want to lower your benzodiazepine dosage, so it may be better to switch to Diazepam or Clonazepam first while you taper (as they are longer lasting than Alprazolam) and then when you get down to a lower dose and are stabalized, you cold switch back to a shorter acting benzodiazepine like Xanax.

 

[Sick-Boy]

Well folks, I started Methadone Maintenance today, fortunately they kept me on all my medications, (I was quite worried about the Benzo's as a number of clinics closer by said they don't "tolerate" usage of Benzo's, even when prescribed.)
The facility itself is pretty bleak, with rules such as "no talking amongst yourself, no cellphones, etc" coupled with a good portion of staff members that seem to treat you like lesser lifeforms (upon presenting myself as friendly and respectfully as possible, it would seem I was lucky if the intake counselor would say 1 or 2 words to me.)
Of course there were a few friendly exceptions, but basically it felt like being human cattle.

The other unfortunate is the low dosage at which the Doctor prescribed me, which is the standard dosage for everyone (30mgs) after "lucking out" and being able to inquire to a few other people getting their dosage, (without being reprimanded) they said the first night isn't the easiest.
Fortunately rather than increase the doses by 5 mg's, you get a 10 MG increase everyday until you're at 70 MG, at which point they leave you on unless you request more.
Well, unless 70 not only quells all cravings, but feels comfortable and additionally pleasant, I indeed plan on upping it until I find my own personal preferred dosage.
It sounds like it might be a process that could take an extra few days, but regardless, I'm paying out of pocket here, and if I'm going to be treated like cattle, I mine as well be as comfortably numb as possible.

Though the dosage is quite low, I did notice a very light pleasant feeling come on, equatable in strength to perhaps half an alcoholic drink, along with a drowsiness I also am in favor of.
I picked up some Grapefruit juice, as I understand it mildly augments orally taken opiates. I'm assuming such is only very mild, but hopefully it can help boost it just slightly enough to stave off the withdrawal until my next dose, which will be much, much earlier tomorrow morning.

Still, obviously it would be awesome if the US received Heroin maintenance as they do in Europe, but until that unlikely day, it would seem this is the most potent maintenance Opiate available.

Considering everything that's been going on within my life the past number of days, there is much catching up to do, both IRL and Online. So assuming tomorrow's (or through luck todays) dosage will be enough to keep me from withdrawing, I'll be able to start catching up on a countless number of things.

Thanks folks, I'll be back on once things start to settle down around here.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

^^

Don't up your dose if you don't need to man. If you're well and even more so, feeling kind of buzzed, then you're already on plenty of methadone. Getting way up there in dosage is only going to make it harder to come off and lead to worse withdrawals in the future.

 

[Znegative]

^AMEN!

You have to remember that Methadone takes about a week of daily dosing for it to reach a constant level in your blood that will keep you comfortable. This is due to methadone's long half life, and the fact that each day you dose, it stacks up on whatever is left of the previous days dose. I stayed on 30mg for a good few months. The first week I continued to use a bit of heroin, but eventually I adjusted and the thirty held me just fine. I kind of wished I never raised my dose, but at the time it seemed like a good idea, and I'm only on 50mg now.

What a lot of people don't understand about methadone is that its not a very euphoric drug in general, but beyond that, increasing the dosages in small increments (like 5 or 10mg's), is not going to produce more euphoric effects. Once you get to a certain dose, around 70-80mg, your opiate receptors become saturated, and increasing the dose will only increase negative effects, like depressed breathing and unpleasant sedation. I remember when I was on around 100mg (maybe 105, makes no difference really), and I got two take home bottles because of some holiday. I was determined to get high, so I drank a total of 300mg that day, downing the 2 take home bottles right after I left the clinic. I was sure that 300mg of methadone would have me blasted, but I didn't know much about the drug in those days. I ended up falling asleep every time I sat down, slurring my words, and ultimately just acting like a prick. I felt absolutely NO euphoria at all.

I don't want to send the message out there that one shouldn't be on a higher dosage. I believe that some people do better on 80-100mg and that they feel more stable on it, and also feel secure in that they know they couldn't get high off of heroin if they wanted to. But if your motive is to chase a high, you'll be sorely dissapointed because you'll never get it, and you'll be addicted to an excessive dose of methadone.

 

[-Guido-]

On the surface the whole "methadone gets in your bones" or "methadone rots your bones" thing sounds like an urban legend, but it may not be entirely crazy. Opioids can be detected in teeth and bones. So while methadone can get in your bones, so can other drugs. Methadone maintenance is also associated with low bone mineral density. There are opioid receptors on osteoblasts, the cells responsible for bone formation. So it bugs me that methadone clinics tell people that methadone can't enter the bones or teeth and doesn't affect them or damage them in any way.

That is absolute poppycock. Methadone cannot get in your bones nor cause any harm to the skeletal system. Methadone maintenance is associated with low bone mineral density because most people on it were malnourished before getting on the program and most don't eat healthy on the program. Methadone like other opiates and opiods slows metabolism so people need to take the proper supplements, vitamins, and eat a proper diet in order to compensate for this. Any opiate or opiod addict that eats a horrible diet of nothing but junk food or little to no food will have low bone density, little lean muscle, and as a result a higher body fat percentage.

The idea of Methadone getting in your bones comes from people experiencing prolonged withdrawal (aches, joint pains, etc..) from methadone due to it's half life. The teeth myth comes from the fact like all opiates and opiods, the pH of the mouth is altered by their use and without proper dental care, decay and other problems set in. It causes dry mouth. This can make your teeth more prone to the production of plaque, which is a major cause of gum disease and tooth decay.

I won't deny that any long term use of Methadone just like any long term use of any other opiate or opiod isn't healthy for the body and it's biological functions in the long run but if one takes the proper steps they can live a very healthy life and I am living proof of that. I have no teeth problems and a smile so white it looks like I have veneers, I have never broken a bone, my liver is healthy finally, my thyroid functions fine, my libido is fine, and I shit fine. I have bone or joint aches because I made sure I stabilized at the correct dosage. All thanks to personal hygiene, supplementing with calcium, B12, and other vitamins, and being on Testosterone Replacement Therapy. I'm healthier on Methadone than most people who are not on Methadone.

Before I got on the program I was actually reviewing studies and research papers with the doctor at the clinic and the head nurse because I wanted to know what was true about Methadone and what was bullshit. Methadone has a bad reputation and it shouldn't.

 

[Sick-Boy]

Thanks again for the info folks, damn Znegative, I couldn't imagine any other way of staying on just 30 for such a duration without balancing it out on Heroin.
I woke up way before the 24 hour mark since my last dosage of Methadone and was already in the midst of withdrawal, just slightly less comparable to where I'd be after not taking Dope for that period of time.

I do understand that this isn't going to be one of those drugs that is so euphoric it's like liquid Heroin, but with all the conflicting reports I've heard, many have said at the right dose you do get a nice opiate buzz (which considering the tolerance we have, would be equatable to "being fucked up" when it would come to someone not familiar with opiates at all.)
From many people I've heard the sweet spot is often between 70-130, so I'll keep that in mind, and of course, keep in mind how my body feels in general. The only reason I imagine I might be on the higher end of the scale is just that, even when I was an opiate naive individual, the amount of Heroin I would do still would generally have been enough to kill most people. Overall I seem to have a naturally tremendous tolerance to drugs.
But hey, if at 70-80 I feel comfortable, no cravings, peaceful and hopefully a light buzz, I'll take your word for it and stay at that dose.
Even right now, with the withdrawal again diminished I do feel relaxed, and pleasantly tranquil. The cravings I'd get while on the Suboxone that would literally be so bad I was close to killing myself just to end them are, right now, no where to be found. I do feel like I finally have some peace without Heroin for the first time in roughly a year. Though I dearly will miss Heroin, as if a best friend+close girlfriend just passed. It is amazing how much addicts can get attached to their drug of choice. But really, the feelings it brings about are otherworldly.

All in all, I don't plan on ever coming off Methadone (that is, as mentioned, unless Heroin maintenance comes around, because obviously, and to be brutally honest, I'd much prefer my drug of choice over anything.)
I've had a tremendous amount of mental problems down through my life, always being the person on the brink of snapping (which happened countless times) and doing something regrettable, or simply losing touch with reality and going into delusional states, getting far, far worse during adulthood.
With Opiates, even at low doses I've found relief from these feelings. More than any of the Anti-Psychotics, Anti-Depressants and all that garbage could ever grant.
I finally feel balanced, even now on the Methadone, without the chaos swirling within.

There are many reasons I could postulate for this, I have some, but overall I'll just currently accept that now I can start going in the direction I've desired for years, without so many of the personal demons ripping and clawing at me and all else near by.

Anyway, thanks folks, I'll make it a point to stop by more often. It will be good to finally be a "Blue Lighter," but I'm in no rush, a few posts here, a few posts there, and I'll reach such a status.

Thank you all for your insight on this matter.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

On the surface the whole "methadone gets in your bones" or "methadone rots your bones" thing sounds like an urban legend, but it may not be entirely crazy. Opioids can be detected in teeth and bones. So while methadone can get in your bones, so can other drugs. Methadone maintenance is also associated with low bone mineral density. There are opioid receptors on osteoblasts, the cells responsible for bone formation. So it bugs me that methadone clinics tell people that methadone can't enter the bones or teeth and doesn't affect them or damage them in any way.

That is absolute poppycock. Methadone cannot get in your bones nor cause any harm to the skeletal system. Methadone maintenance is associated with low bone mineral density because most people on it were malnourished before getting on the program and most don't eat healthy on the program.

Re-read what I said. I didn't make any conclusions that this stuff means methadone definitely is harmful to bones, I just stated some facts.

1. Methadone does go into bones and teeth. Same with other opioids. I did not make any statements about what that means as far as effects, just that it DOES enter the bones. It is detectable in the bones and teeth even after someone dies. But as I said, this is not specific to methadone. It is simply wrong to say "it cannot get into your bones".

2. Methadone maintenance is also associated with low bone mineral density. It simply is, you can't prove that it is only due to diet and lifestyle factors etc, nor can I prove the reverse.

3. There are opioid receptors on osteoblasts, the cells responsible for bone formation. Additionally, osteocalcin synthesis is significantly inhibited by mu agonist opioids. Osteoclast activity is also inhibited. These effects are nothing to do with the diet or lifestyle of opiate users. This happens in animal experiments on perfectly healthy animals that are even being administered opioids for the first time. Methadone is a strong mu against and methadone maintenance gives you high near-constant levels, potentially making these effects more constant and therefore causing greater cumulative changes.

Methadone has a bad reputation and it shouldn't.

How long have you been on methadone?
And if you ever decide to come off it tell me if you still agree its bad rep is undeserved then.

I agree that it's not correct how some people claim methadone "rots" your bones or that any ache or pain must be due to the methadone damaging one's bones. I was never saying that. However I think clinics and doctors do not know/say anywhere near enough about the effects of long-term MMT on one's brain and body.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I decided I may or may not make a video detailing how to use a micron filter, since we can embed videos.

No promises so don't hold off for me or anything like that.

1. Methadone does go into bones and teeth. Same with other opioids. I did not make any statements about what that means as far as effects, just that it DOES enter the bones. It is detectable in the bones and teeth even after someone dies. But as I said, this is not specific to methadone. It is simply wrong to say "it cannot get into your bones".

^ methadone has a high volume of distribution which is likely why

it flows through your body, even if you IV it it can distribute through the vein itself and then into the subcutaneous/muscle/more blood vessels/bone/etc (only partially not completely which is why some people still swear to me they still get a rush with IV methadone even though not everyone does).

I'm going to reaffirm what Swimmingdancer said; just because it has a high volume of distribution doesn't mean it is necessarily dangerous to the skeletal system at all.