Methadone for Oxycodone 'comedown'? safe? stupid?

[creator]

Hi y'alls I just had a quick question about compounding these opiates in a particular way. Sorry in advance if this is a dumb question, and I'll also apologize for my long winded-ness but I express myself much better in a larger amount of text. I couldnt find anything quite about this in the search though so any of your input may be useful information for BL anyway.

So, lets say I am using oxy right now and as I approach my last dose (a line) I am wondering about and wanting to keep the warm buzz going as I come off of the oxy by taking a 10mg 'done. I generally take 20-30 mg over a couple hours, oral and nasal. I know that methadone before oxy can reduce or block its effects, it doesn't go the other way around right? Its not like I really crash or have bad comedowns from opiates or any downers really (stims yes), but I am just curious about using these two in this way so as to achieve for the whole experience a nice oxy peak for a few hours that then flows into a chill methadone glow lasting the rest of the night and into the morning and next day. I am quite experienced with opiates (though not addicted currently, but I have been, moderately, in the past) including methadone specifically, so I am not a 'naive' really.

Would this combination be safe? say I took ~two mg of klonopin spaced out over about six hours tonight as well, although I have a Rx for them to take regularly so I am fairly tolerant to those as well, but would that be sketchy at all? I wouldn't take any with or during the m'done high, and would take my last one well before the 'done. Do you think it would be a good way to keep the fun going when the good stuff is all gone and to wake up without the urge to hunt more down? I have a ample supply of m'done if needed but I am aware of the dangers and heed precautions about (not) re-dosing as effects decrease, but to do so rather as levels in blood decrease; I understand that protocol. Any input is appreciated, cause I understand this is a bit of a very specific question. personal experience if anyone has tried this would be awesome. again Thank you for any info!

 

[dopemegently]

There is no comedown or crash for opiates, that is unless you've been using them long enough to build a physical dependence - in which case you'll go through some pretty rough withdrawals ranging from unpleasant to fucking nightmarish, depending on which opiates you've been using and the length of time you've been using them for. It doesn't sound like you're dependent on opiate dugs, so taking another strong opiate to avoid a "comedown" is a very bad idea; it merely increases the likelihood of becoming physically and psychologically addicted to them. Just stop.

If you can keep your use recreational, good lucky to you. A lot of people can't do that.

 

[creator]

Alllllrighty then. like I said "Its not like I really crash or have comedowns from opiates...", I know there isn't a comedown, I aknowledged that originally. I mean thanks I guess, a reminder of the fact that opiates are addictive is always good because your right the line between rec. use and addiction doesn't even really exist in a sense.. but I did know that too, like i said I have been through it even. Thats why I keep a stash of these things, because at this point in my life things are going well and can actually take them recreationally from time to time or to keep a bad craving in check. I have faults and I don't know everything, but just cause I only have 9 posts on here doesn't meant that i'm that much of an idiot man, I spend good amounts of time researching pharmacology and have taken college courses on it, but from here on Bluelight I was kind of hoping more for insight into the effects, risks, etc. of this combo, rather than a generic warning against opiates since they don't have that info in textbooks. I love you guys here, but I guess perhaps answers like this aren't best found on a 'harm reduction' (I guess, though i'v seen dumber ideas than mine entertained just a liiiitle bit more) site, or maybe I'm just asking too many questions, I don't really care that much I was just hoping to reveal some possibly new information to me and anyone else who might have had this apparently crazy crazy idea of sort of softening the landing (there, i'll fucking call it a 'landing' instead of a comedown) of their opiate experience. No, I don't have w/ds as this point but there is a neglected psychological aspect of opiate addiction as well that makes even non-dependent persons with addictive personalities like me want to, when their opiate wares off the morning after or whatnot, go out immediately and empty their wallet for a few more perfect little roxys to blow into their head (and its tooo easy for me to do so, so the temptation is kinda strong) so they can have that feeling again, thats how people become dependent in the first place. I'm trying to maybe minimize or alleviate that moderate craving, i'm not just a dumb kid trying to get higher for longer here, I would just take more oxy if I was. And I do have the willpower to quit opiates - even today if I felt the need to. But I guess i'm as good of a chimp as any, maybe i'll go sans clonazepam for a night and with a sitter for safety and find this out for myself, then make a trip report that might actually contain some novel info someone can use. Would anyone here think that kratom instead of m.d. might be better then? I'm very willing to go that rout instead, or is this also just too insane of an idea

 

[BlueHues]

^The half-life of methadone is so long, and you've already been fucking with those pills more than you want to....you may be teetering on the edge of a physical addiction already....When that happens, most people just keep doing whatever they have to in order to stay high/well everyday...It happens so seamlessly and the drugs kill and regrets you may have, you just chase it without even thinking about it...

20-30mgs of oxy isn't that much, and if that amount is getting you high, OD'ing is a big consideration here...Methadone kills a lot of people! Even more with benzos mixed in...

that said, you're tolerant to the benzos and only planning on using 10 mgs of methadone...It will do what you want it to, but you're really playing with fire as far as getting dependent goes....If you're planning on becoming dependent anyway, go for it...but you may find that the methadone is cheaper and find yourself taking escalating doses of that...

It's dangerous territory, a lot of addicts have died trying to do the dance with their DOC, methadone and benzos....I don't think you're at the point that you should do this...

 

[creator]

Alright I guess thats a good point. Addiction can happen with any level of frequency/intensity of use to continue (at least) that frequency and dose, dependency is just a very high level of this pattern. I'v moved into that territory before and luckily have had good results just tapering myself down on the op's and using benzos and pot to transition to 'clean'. The more I read about methadone, the more I understand how serious it is, I guess people (me) get the wrong impression from others who say 'ya I take like 50mg m'done a day and 6 mg of kpin', yada yada, but iv never really REALLY got buried into opiates. I'v never touched heroin, the farthest I'v been is IV dilaudid while in the hospital when I didn't necessarily neeed it, hehe (nurses are very generous/lax when you are actually in a hospital bed, just give them a high number for your pain and in it goes...). I really did think that 20-30 mg oxy for one use was kind of a lot, so I guess I am sensitive as a person to opiates and that is pretty useful, thanks for that one really, probably means im a bit sensitive to m'done too. If i do get that wild hair I'll stick with maybe 5 mg instead, but y'all are probably right to just stay away. I try to never take methadone for consecutive days because the addiction stories scare the shit out of me, I thought w/d from ms contins were pretty bad.. Any thoughts on using some kratom for this 'landing' purpose? i know that is a great deal safer and less addicting too, I'v taken in several times and I love the effects, but never really with the intention of sub-ing for opiates. I took 5-7 grams brewed into tea usually if that matters at all. I do appreciate your guy's concern for me staying non-addicted, I know that the attitude towards that is different (more realistic probably) here on BL with very experienced hard drug users around to chime in, than it is within my own naive group of peers, but I really do do pretty well staying off them habitually I have good support and plenty of activities and other great drugs (chemical or not) to distract myself with, but I feel that opiates will always be in my mind and I will use them to indulge from time to time, maybe more than the average casual user, but I am keeping your advice in mind too thanks guys

 

[BlueHues]

The way you're planning on using it and the dosing sounds reasonable...When someone first goes on methadone all they require is an opiate positive urine and they start everyone on 30mgs, and the titrate upwards everyday until an effective dose is reached...From this, I infer that 30mgs of methadone, on it's own is safe for virtually any healthy adult...although 10mgs is still substantial...

I personally know 3 people who have died from mixing opiates and benzos in the last three years...That's people I actually know who I kept in touch with, hung out with, had their number in my phone...If I counted people I knew who died from that combo that I know who they were but weren't close to them, it would be somewhere from 9-12 in the last three years....

First, my friends mother, who was 50 years old died from 125mgs of methadone mixed with an unknown amount of Klonopin from her script

Second, my friend Jesse died from mixing Xanax with heroin, he was taking suboxone for 3 or for days and scored a half gram of some good dope(I was using the same stuff that week) and took some Xanax...the Xanax was someone else's script that was given to him on consignment to sell...I'm the last person he called to sell some Adderall to...

Third, my mom's best friends son died in January of this year from prescribed methadone and soma...100+mgs of methadone and who knows how much carisprodol(soma)

So, in the interest of harm reduction I have tell you to be very careful with this combination, even though the people in this story were all using a lot more than you, people die from much lower doses of methadone all the time...It's a safe, predictable drug when used responsibly on it's own, but mixing it with benzos is always dangerous...

Sounds like you have a good sense of what you're doing, but just stick to the regimen you described if you do it at all....

Kratom may work for you, I've never done it...but it's a partial agonist/antagonist, so taking it on the same day with oxy might not work well...

 

[creator]

Okay that all sounds very level-headed man, good advice. Im terribly sorry to hear about your multiple acquaintances who have passed from similar combinations. A single loss like that is unspeakably tragic on its own. I'll try to never combine benzo's with strong doses of opiates, or really with any dose of 'done, just out of caution.

A few weeks ago I also had a friend pass away in this fashion, he had been shooting up cocaine for several days and he was cut off from that when his dealer found out, so my assumption is (i have no confirmed details) that since he definitely had both methadone and klonopin in his possession (we saw him buy them) he used too much of both to try to alleviate a nasty cocaine craving/hangover resulting from the intense use of that drug. He was a real nice guy, very young, I only was just getting to know him at that point RIP. ah getting all choked up now..

Methadone seems to do what it is supposed to do. it doesn't (for me) give me a huge physical relief like most pain killers, nor does it really sedate me like benzos do. It can do some of both but it's really its own high, meant to either alleviate cravings for a drug, or to be used and enjoyed recreationally -sparingly and conservatively- for its own unique effects, maybe best with a few bowls of good pot. Its no good for coming down off of any upper, the dangerous side effects seem to always outrun the desired relaxing effects when one is already 'up'. Better to just stick with recognized and approved landing gear to help come down from anything (1-2 mg xanex for speed, maybe a few percocets for coke, once those are wearing off). From now on i'll always try to educate people on this issue if they decide to indulge, for me, I think ill be ordering some kratom today. I'm not super concerned about it blocking up receptors to prevent oxy from its full effect, since i'd be taking it once the oxy is all gone.

 

[dopemegently]

Okay, I admit - my post wasn't very helpful; I just got kinda blindsided by the OP's original post title re comedowns or crashes regarding opiates. I guess there is a sort of sinking "back to reality" feeling once they've worn off, and that can be a downer for sure, but in my personal experience, it was a sign my use was becoming a problem; the point my "weekends only" rule drifted into a "every other day only" rule, and you know how that story tends to turn out.

One thing I didn't get from your posts was if you have a dependence to opiates or not; my advice to a recreational user would be to curb back their use, but for somebody with a dependence, obviously opiate replacement therapy is a viable option - bupe worked very well for me, and methadone was valuable to getting my life back on track at one point. As has been posted, the lengthy half-lives of these drugs eliminate the need to dose constantly, however detoxing from them can be protracted, for the same reason.

Using kratom is actually a pretty decent idea, I'd say far better than using methadone. I actually have a stockpile of it to ease withdrawals when I soon detox from bupe. From what I gather, you have to use fairly high doses to achieve the analgesic opiate effects you're after. I've been told its a good idea to avoid extracts as they're overpriced; it's best to go for a strong powdered leaf, it's what I went for. You could use this in conjunction with strong kava or even phenibut to stave off that "back to reality" feeling, which can be pretty depressing. Honestly, if you're not dependent, this would be a better way to go - following oxycodone with another strong opiate with a very lengthy half-life could be risky.

 

[BJCS333]

OP My friend this sounds perfectly safe just remember to wait atleast 10 minutes for redosing on methaone and keep redosing until you get desired effects you really want to take as much as possilbe so you get the best high

 

[firahs75]

OP My friend this sounds perfectly safe just remember to wait atleast 10 minutes for redosing on methaone and keep redosing until you get desired effects you really want to take as much as possilbe so you get the best high

This idiotic advice will kill you. Do NOT follow it. Wait at least 2 hours before redosing on methadone.

That could have been worded nicer than so. -Psychedelic Jay

 

[Psychedelic Jay]

The methadone at that level will add on, not block...

You should also be aware that this is indeed helping you build a physical dependence...

We value our members just as much as you value us.

We have to say these things to not let you think that we lead you astray...

We have your best intrest at heart and it is the right thing to do.

Slow and low is the best way to go.

Methadone will stave of your craving for most of tomorrow...

Just be aware that the clonazepam is still kicking good and well. I would wait. But, this is just me.

 

[BJCS333]

This idiotic advice will kill you. Do NOT follow it. Wait at least 2 hours before redosing on methadone.

excuse me you know nothing kid

None of either of those will be tolerated....

 

[BlueHues]

^Security, please remove this troll....

 

[Psychedelic Jay]

I'm going to go ahead and pop this pimple as it has already come to a head.

Summary:

-If the clonazepam is not crucial, it is best leave it out.

-If you are doing the methadone as an add on, it isn't necessary at this point.

-If you are already in the midst of some form of withdrawal the methadone will hold you off...