Opioids Methadone Clinic MMT- 3rd day still in withdrawal? Is this normal?

[Znegative]

I'm a little confused OP, how long was the gap in time between being on suboxone and entering the methadone program? 12mg of suboxone, unlike 100mg of oxycodone, IS a rather hefty amount of opiate to consume for eight months straight. In fact, it's thought that at its maximum agonist activity, buprenorphine is equivalent to about 30-40 mg of methadone, which would explain your withdrawal symptoms. I think it's kind of fucked up how suboxone is presented to many misinformed opiate dependent people. I've heard SO MANY poor people say things like "Suboxone is for people with Percocet or hydrocodone habits. Methadone is for IV drug users." or, "Buprenorphine isn't a real opiate." There are definate misconceptions that are spread about suboxone/buprenorphine and I feel that while its a great drug for some, it can also lead those with less serious habits to end up with a much higher tolerance and worse habit than they began with.

Anyway... While it would be better to probably try and detox now off the methadone, I also wouldn't say that to not do so is going to mean you're absolutely fucking yourself. just know that 30mg of chronic methadone is a serious matter, and that eventually you're going to want to come off of this drug. My suggestions are, don't raise your dose, thirty should be sufficient, and when you do decide to taper off, make sure to do it slowly. You don't want to risk a rapid taper because you'd have a good chance of relapsing. With methadone you have to be very patient, it's a serious commitment.

 

[Blasted]

I just want to say if i was looking to get high i can raise my dose at will right now, which im refraining from doing.

 

[Blasted]

I'm a little confused OP, how long was the gap in time between being on suboxone and entering the methadone program? 12mg of suboxone, unlike 100mg of oxycodone, IS a rather hefty amount of opiate to consume for eight months straight. In fact, it's thought that at its maximum agonist activity, buprenorphine is equivalent to about 30-40 mg of methadone, which would explain your withdrawal symptoms. I think it's kind of fucked up how suboxone is presented to many misinformed opiate dependent people. I've heard SO MANY poor people say things like "Suboxone is for people with Percocet or hydrocodone habits. Methadone is for IV drug users." or, "Buprenorphine isn't a real opiate." There are definate misconceptions that are spread about suboxone/buprenorphine and I feel that while its a great drug for some, it can also lead those with less serious habits to end up with a much higher tolerance and worse habit than they began with.

Anyway... While it would be better to probably try and detox now off the methadone, I also wouldn't say that to not do so is going to mean you're absolutely fucking yourself. just know that 30mg of chronic methadone is a serious matter, and that eventually you're going to want to come off of this drug. My suggestions are, don't raise your dose, thirty should be sufficient, and when you do decide to taper off, make sure to do it slowly. You don't want to risk a rapid taper because you'd have a good chance of relapsing. With methadone you have to be very patient, it's a serious commitment.

It was about a week and a half bro from the Suboxone clinic to the Methadone Clinic, I apologise for not noting that above, i can understand why people would be confused now. Yeah im probably dealing with Sub withdrawal not the baby ass perc/ultram/codeine. I have gone through those withdrawals before and have gotten through them course i guess not well enough because look where it lead, i just think its funny when i asked the doctor for clonodine and stuff to try to quit he told me go to sub clinic, i was very uneducated then and really thought he knew what he was talking about. it does now make sense that was why i was blown out of the water in withdrawals after i got out of the sub clinic, then i was taking anything and everything, and buying the 8mgs sub on the street. i guess i just thought by after two weeks of leaving the clinic i wasn't dealing with sub withdrawal anymore.

Im definatly going to take everyone's advice and STAY at 30mgs until i do a taper for detox, and you're right,i have only been going to this clinic for about 5 days now and realize how much i got myself into. I do have to say though im in and out in 5 mins if i don't have a group or counseling meeting, where as with the sub clinic, on a good day id be seen in 3 hours of waiting.

See it was the perc/ultram/codeine stuff that got me into the sub clinic, it was advice given to me by my own primary care doc and with all the research i have seen now (i wish i did more a long time ago) im realizing he just leaped me on like 10 times more of an addiction.

 

[Znegative]

Okay, we'll that totally explains everything, and means that you most likely were under medicated at 25mg.

And yeah, don't I know it.. Embarrassing as it is, Buprenorphine was the first opiate that I became really, painfully addicted to. I was taken off of it at an inpatient rehab without more than a three day taper (from 16mg), and couldn't understand for the life of me what was wrong as I was also told that suboxone couldn't cause withdrawal syndrome...

 

[Swimmingdancer]

It's normal to still get some withdrawal symptoms when you first start on methadone. Methadone takes on average around a week to reach full levels in your blood. Plus you can get psychological withdrawal symptoms - you are used to feeling high and taking drugs more than once a day. Some people (like me) do metabolize methadone more rapidly than others. If you are still feeling withdrawals after a week or 2 talk to your doctor about taking your methadone twice a day.

Here's a graph showing how the methadone levels don't reach a stable state until after a week of taking it:

 

[rob007]

It's normal to still get some withdrawal symptoms when you first start on methadone. Methadone takes on average around a week to reach full levels in your blood. Plus you can get psychological withdrawal symptoms - you are used to feeling high and taking drugs more than once a day. Some people (like me) do metabolize methadone more rapidly than others. If you are still feeling withdrawals after a week or 2 talk to your doctor about taking your methadone twice a day.

Here's a graph showing how the methadone levels don't reach a stable state until after a week of taking it:

i agree with this chart. the first couple days, i was feeling a little off mentally and physically. and now about 6 days into the program, i feel 100%. i still have a craving to use because of my habits but i refrain from using.
i already feel my life coming back together. my wifey has not felt this happy with me in such a long time.

but as mentioned, as long as you come in with a plan, you will succeed. i am sorry to hear that the sub doctors put you into this spot.

 

[Blasted]

It's normal to still get some withdrawal symptoms when you first start on methadone. Methadone takes on average around a week to reach full levels in your blood. Plus you can get psychological withdrawal symptoms - you are used to feeling high and taking drugs more than once a day. Some people (like me) do metabolize methadone more rapidly than others. If you are still feeling withdrawals after a week or 2 talk to your doctor about taking your methadone twice a day.

Here's a graph showing how the methadone levels don't reach a stable state until after a week of taking it:

Thanks man for the graph, it makes alot of sense now why i was so off the first couple days as well, i am starting to feel much better now, i feel im about 80% there, im going to try to stay on this dose for a little longer but part of me is fighting to raise it once more to try to get 100% relief (not a high or euphoria) as i still feel somewhat weak in my legs, and just moving around in general, but much better then i felt a few days ago.

I do have a question if anyone would mind answering i'd appreciate it, my counselar told me she's not worried about a specific number unless it get's to about 120 mg (which i will not be traveling over 40 mgs, as i feel one more up (im on 30mg now) and ill be fine, even then im still trying to refrain) she told me she put on file if i need to, raise as needed, and i just wanted to ask, IF i do feel the need to raise once more, does this nurse have the right to deny me the up even if its on file from my counselar? This nurse just seems very reluctant to raise people, as i have met quite a few people actually at the clinic who have had major problems with this woman combatting anyone from raising when they have needed it. I recently met an older guy there who claims he was doing about 7 bags of heroine a day and he's awfully sick, i feel bad for him, and he told me he's having some problems with this nurse as well as i did before, telling me his counselar said he also could raise it, hed told me he's on 50mgs and its not helping him, anyway i told him i'd look into it and maybe give him some advice, i can tell this guy REALLY needs it, alot more then i do at that.

Anyway, anyone have any info on this?

i agree with this chart. the first couple days, i was feeling a little off mentally and physically. and now about 6 days into the program, i feel 100%. i still have a craving to use because of my habits but i refrain from using.
i already feel my life coming back together. my wifey has not felt this happy with me in such a long time.

but as mentioned, as long as you come in with a plan, you will succeed. i am sorry to hear that the sub doctors put you into this spot.

Thank you for the support man. yeah i wish i was more educated back then, it's funny you think doctor's know what there doing and nowadays it seems the patients know more then the doctors.

 

[Blasted]

Okay, we'll that totally explains everything, and means that you most likely were under medicated at 25mg.

And yeah, don't I know it.. Embarrassing as it is, Buprenorphine was the first opiate that I became really, painfully addicted to. I was taken off of it at an inpatient rehab without more than a three day taper (from 16mg), and couldn't understand for the life of me what was wrong as I was also told that suboxone couldn't cause withdrawal syndrome...

It definatly is bro, i had no idea that i was even going through sub withdrawal to be honest, i heard that it was a very mediocre withdrawal and was only a matter of days of some to little discomfort and you would be fine, let me tell ya, and im sure you already know, that put my other withdrawals to shame when i got out of that sub clinic. I thought that it was the perk/ultram/codeine,but not understanding why it seemed like triple worse, sure makes alot of sense now. I hear ya dude.

 

[Znegative]

I'm a little bit confused, probably due to the fact that our clinics are possibly run differently. Is this nurse that you speak of the nurse who doles out the medication? I ask because at my clinic, the nurses really have no power over your dose, but rather the doctor is the one who makes the decision, after which point the order for an increase is put into the computer, and by the time you go to get your medication, the dose increase is already set up. However you have to talk to the doctor when you want an increase, you cannot just tell the nurses "oh, I think I'll go up 5 or 10mg today" haha.

Regardless, I would really try to stay at 30mg. Increasing your dose will not really be any more effective unless your goal is to reach a blocking dose (in which case, you need to be at 60mg at the least.) I feel that after two weeks you will definitely not be experiencing withdrawal symptoms within a 24 hour period, unless you metabolize methadone exceptionally fast (and even then, you'd likely still not benefit from an extra 10mg, as you'll gain a tolerance to it in no time.)

 

[rob007]

i have never seen nurses being in control over the dose either. they have it in the computer what my dose for the day is. i spoke with my counselor today and he said that he is going to raise me 10mg more tomorrow.

as far as i know, anyone with a heavy habit here, starts of at 30 and goes up 10 everyday until they hit 60. then 60 for 2 days then 70 for 2 more days. then you see a counselor and go from there.

as you are, i am trying to stay on the lowest dose possible that will keep me most of the day. after a few days, your body will adjust to the dose and you will feel good on that dose all day.

and as far as i can see, they dont adjust your dose by seeing how dope sick you are/say. here, they adjust by looking at your toxicology reports. if they see you use during your fist week or two, they will raise it until you stop

 

[BlueHues]

I've been off opiates fifteen months now. In the end I was mixing H with cocaine and benzos. It was a four year run that ended in me getting fired from a great job and going to rehab. I was scripted suboxone the whole time but hardly ever touched it. I had insurance that paid for the whole script of 60. I was selling them at a lower price than the pharmacy. Gave a lot away too. What a life! I actually have missed the dope so much lately but I've been stuck here in the midwest in what's probably the hardest good sized metro area to get h in that ive ever seen! Haven't REALLY gone crazy trying. probably for the better, right?
I just wanna say, 100 mils of oxy once you have a tolerance, it may seem like nothing but in reality its definitely enough to send you into full blown withdrawals. I was doing shots of H that were basically as much as I could break down and fit in a 1cc syringe and I was hardly getting anything off the shot. I know the dope was good because I was with other people snorting little lines of it practically turning blue on my couch while my friend and I were standing there looking at each other sayin, "This shit sucks, lets call someone else and get more!" With opiates, over time, you can push your tolerance sky high! But once you're physically addicted and your body needs it everyday, you're pretty much screwed regardless of where your dose it at, to a point...Obviously 10 mgs of hydrocodone versus 4 oxy 80s a day is a big difference but..you get what I mean.
I'm proud of the OP for sticking with 30 a day of the methadone. I came off 2 yrs of 80 mg of methadone, comin down 1 mg a day and it wasn't that bad. Methadone can work well as a detox drug, especially if you do a quick detox, before your body starts to get used to it. The detox protocol at the state run detox where I'm from tapers everyone down 40mg,30,20,10,5,0. All the while giving you a pill cocktail of clonidine, visterill, bentyl, ibuprofen and loperamide...for a seven day detox, it's pretty damn good...
My gf just got a scrip for 16 hydrocodone for tooth pain....80 mgs over the course of 2 weeks when she goes back...and it's been working because shes taking them as prescribed! imagine that?