Opioids methadone 2 suboxone assistance plz :D

[Princess_Poppy]

Hi all. I haven't been on the forums in A WHILE so I am not sure if this belongs in a megathread or somewhere else, I understand if it needs to be moved. Since I am discussing both drugs, I decided to just start my own...

My situation is as follows: I am currently on MMT @ 70mg per day. I have wanted to make the switch to bupe for sometime, but have been unable to do so for financial reasons. Perhaps the cost is similar in the end, but funds are available on a day to day basis right now, so I can't really save money to get my initial doctor visit and all it entails and then pay for the script, even generic. My X amount of dollars a day is easier for me.

However, today, as luck would have it, my bf's little sister has made a new "friend" lol (she's dating the guy I guess) and he would like to help out. I am not sure on the rules, so I will be vague. I will have 8mg suboxone at my disposal tomorrow, in necessary quantities, so I can make the switch. Today, I did not take my daily 70mg dose. I used heroin, and quite a bit of it. Let's say a gram? So, tomorrow I do not plan on dosing at the clinic. I am going to take this opportunity (that being a day off of methadone) to go ahead and make the switch.

SOOOOO what I am trying to ask is: when and how much? I know I should wait until I am in strong WD. I was on the clinic for years, so it is definitely saturating my receptors I know about half lives and whatnot, but I would appreciate advice as to when it should be "safe" to take the suboxone. Second, I have been on BL long enough I have heard about this "less is more" thing, but I would like to discuss it in relation to situation if you please. I figure I will just go ahead and start with 4mg? See how that is going, then take the other 4mg half if I am still sick. The day after that, I suppose I will be able to re-evaluate the amount I need to take.

I would appreciate everyone's advise concerning my switch. I haven't been a part of the community for a long time, but you all are the first ppl I thought to ask, and I am sure you all have good advice/recommendations for me I AM SO EXCITED about getting off of the full agonist opioids. I have had a lot of lethargy, and worse (nueropathies and other reactions), not to mention suboxone will give a blocking affect I NEED to prevent relapse. I am ready to get clean...er. lol. Let me know if there is anything I can add to better assist. THANKS

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Generally Suboxone won't work for someone currently taking 70mg of methadone/day. People have to taper down to 25 or 30mg of methadone before they can start Suboxone, because Suboxone has a ceiling effect. I guess you can try it and see if it works, but I wouldn't cut your ties with the methadone clinic in case you find out the Suboxone is not enough for you. However, if you have switched to heroin first and have been taking only enough heroin to make the withdrawals bearable then you might be ok. You will need to wait until a good portion of both the methadone and the heroin is out of your system, for your situation I would say to be safe it's best to wait about 72 hrs from your last methadone dose and maybe 24 hrs from your last heroin dose. Then start with a small amount of Suboxone, say maybe 2mg, see how it affects you, and then gradually take more every few hours until your withdrawals are gone. The specific dose of Suboxone needed varies greatly from person to person.

 

[Princess_Poppy]

Generally Suboxone won't work for someone currently taking 70mg of methadone/day. People have to taper down to 25 or 30mg of methadone before they can start Suboxone, because Suboxone has a ceiling effect. I guess you can try it and see if it works, but I wouldn't cut your ties with the methadone clinic in case you find out the Suboxone is not enough for you. However, if you have switched to heroin first and have been taking only enough heroin to make the withdrawals bearable then you might be ok. You will need to wait until a good portion of both the methadone and the heroin is out of your system, for your situation I would say to be safe it's best to wait about 72 hrs from your last methadone dose and maybe 24 hrs from your last heroin dose. Then start with a small amount of Suboxone, say maybe 2mg, see how it affects you, and then gradually take more every few hours until your withdrawals are gone. The specific dose of Suboxone needed varies greatly from person to person.

I did heroin today. No methadone. I understand about tapering... but isn't that so the last dose of methadone and the suboxone don't have to be so far apart? I don't think they make you wait 72 hrs from your last dose to switch, that would be UNBEARABLE. And I could be wrong, I am not on here to tell everyone I know exactly what I am doing, lol, that wouldn't make sense. However, tomorrow at 9 AM, it will have been 48 hrs since my last dose of methadone. I think if I can just wait until I get really sick (close to 72 hrs) and be able to take enough suboxone to take care of myself.

Also, part of the reason I am doing this is because I am BROKE. Bad broke. Can't pay rent broke. I don't get any gov or subsidy from my clinic to help with costs. It is kind of urgent that I make this switch, as my source for the bupe will be affordable to a very generous degree. I'm not saying I may not experience a bit of discomfort. I am sure anyone switching from methadone to suboxone experiences discomfort lol! Luckily (or unluckily?) I am not working right now, so worst case scenario I am too sick to do much, and I don't have to do much.

I really just want to know if you all think I should really try for the 72 hr mark? I think I will be TOO sick by then, since I have a tolerance equivalent to 70mg methadone (BUT NOT 70 MG IN MY SYSTEM- I think that is where you misunderstood). I think at the clinic they would have made you take your low dose, like the 25-30 you mentioned, then go 24 hrs and take suboxone. I was on a high dose of methadone, but I will not have taken ANY in 48 hrs tomorrow morning. I did a lot of heroin today, so I think by the time I get sick from that half life running out, the methadone will be close to out of my system. Which leads to the other question, what dose of suboxone should I take to match what I was taking in methadone???

PS: just reread the above post, and i am confused about the ceiling affect thing, there are definitely folks out there with dope habits equal to 70mgs of methadone, are you saying suboxone would also not be appropriate for them? Like I said, I am willing for a little pain for the immense gain. Also, my ties won't be "cut" with the clinic by not going tomorrow. I would have to miss 3 days for them to even say anything about it at all. So I will be able to go back if this doesn't work.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I did heroin today. No methadone. I understand about tapering... but isn't that so the last dose of methadone and the suboxone don't have to be so far apart? I don't think they make you wait 72 hrs from your last dose to switch, that would be UNBEARABLE.

You're right, it does feel unbearable. My doctor and several others I've talked to do make people wait 72 hrs. Some doctors decide based on the person and assess their metabolism and withdrawal symptoms to determine when would likely be a safe point to start the Suboxone. Some will temporarily switch people onto a shorter-acting opioid so that they don't have to wait as long.

tomorrow at 9 AM, it will have been 48 hrs since my last dose of methadone. I think if I can just wait until I get really sick (close to 72 hrs) and be able to take enough suboxone to take care of myself.

You might be fine. There's no way to really know until you try. It depends on your unique metabolism and how your body processes the methadone. The main thing is being in full withdrawals, not a set amount of time. And I have talked to some people who did get precipitated withdrawals but said it only lasted for an hour (although others have said it lasted like 12 hrs), so that seems to vary too.

I really just want to know if you all think I should really try for the 72 hr mark? I think I will be TOO sick by then, since I have a tolerance equivalent to 70mg methadone (BUT NOT 70 MG IN MY SYSTEM- I think that is where you misunderstood).

Are you saying the last time you took methadone it was less than 70mg? Either way, of course you wouldn't have 70mg in your system, since your body begins the process of flushing it out as soon as you take it. The point of waiting is that you have to be in full withdrawal from the methadone, and it usually takes around 72 hrs to get to that point.

I think by the time I get sick from that half life running out, the methadone will be close to out of my system.

No, methadone takes about a week to be out of your system. But you can take Suboxone before 100% of it is out of your body.

what dose of suboxone should I take to match what I was taking in methadone???

It completely depends on the person. Even doctors have a very difficult time determining appropriate Suboxone dose. Just start low and gradually increase the dose if it's not enough.

i am confused about the ceiling affect thing, there are definitely folks out there with dope habits equal to 70mgs of methadone, are you saying suboxone would also not be appropriate for them?

What you have to consider is not how much heroin someone takes in one day, it is how much they need to take at one time to alleviate withdrawals. Heroin may only last about 6 hrs or so before they need to take more, but Suboxone will last a full day or longer. So a person would take the dose equivalent to how much heroin they need to take at one time, not in a day. Also, there may be incomplete cross tolerance, meaning they can take a slightly lower dose of bupe than would actually be "equal" to the dose of heroin and be ok. The ceiling effect means that after a certain point, taking more Suboxone won’t increase any of the effects of the drug. Because of the ceiling effect, people with very heavy opiate habits may not get enough out of Suboxone to keep withdrawal pains away. So yes, it is possible for someone to have a dependence to heroin that is too high for Suboxone to work for them. Many people who are on 70mg of methadone did not have a heroin habit equivalent to 70mg of methadone, their dose was just raised that high for other reasons.

Like I said, I am willing for a little pain for the immense gain. Also, my ties won't be "cut" with the clinic by not going tomorrow. I would have to miss 3 days for them to even say anything about it at all. So I will be able to go back if this doesn't work.

I say go for it then Just make sure to remind yourself that if it doesn't work out you are going to switch back to methadone and not heroin. It can be very easy for our addicted brains to rationalize returning to heroin.

 

[Tommyboy]

Some methadone clinics do suboxone maintenance too. Have you asked at your clinic if you have this option, or looked for others that do? It would allow you to switch at the clinic, and possibly pay the same price instead of the price of a doctors visit.

As far as how long you would have to wait, 72 hours seems to be the standard amount of time, and it is the reason why most people are hesitant to make the switch, since they are going to have to experience withdrawals for a few days only to get on subs, and eventually detox from them as well. I am pretty sure that the recommended switch is from 30mg of methadone, so if they want you to wait 72 hours a dose which is half the dose you are on now, then you should definitely wait at least 72 hours before switching. I think that most doctors switch you over to 16mg of suboxone, but you can see how the 8mg feels, and slowly work your way up until you are comfortable. It might take some time before your properly adjust to the suboxone, so you might go through a week of feeling some minor withdrawals, especially if you intent to go from 70mg of methadone to 8mg of suboxone. That's more than twice the recommended dosage of methadone to be on when switching to suboxone, and half the recommended dose of suboxone to switch to.

I don't mean to discourage you as I think it's a good move to switch from methadone to suboxone, but it is not something to take lightly. One of the alternatives to doing the direct switch and having to wait 72 hours is to use another opiate for a week after your last dose of methadone, and then wait 36 hours to switch over to the suboxone, this way you are only sick for half the time compared to if you were to directly switch. Obviously you need to have a lot of self control to do this, and only use enough of the other opiate to keep you out of withdrawals, otherwise the transition to suboxone will be more difficult.

 

[Princess_Poppy]

thanks a lot for the replies guys needless to say, i kinda figured out what this was alllll about on my own :/ i will elaborate, my last methadone dose was monday at 9 AM. i have been using H in doses as small as poss since then. last night, wednesday, at about 3 in the morning, i thought i was sick enough to try and take a small amount of the sub, and see what happened. i took a very small piece of the 8 mg pill. lets guess and say it was about 2mg. WELL, i was DEFINITELY not far enough out to have done so i went into PW for sure. my pupils were so wide i almost felt like i was tripping, what with the light sensitivity and all. also, i don't think i really understood the concept of truly kicking before last night. well, about 6 hrs into all that, i was able to get a decent sized shot of H, and i could def notice a bit of a blocking effect, i think, from the subs.... i was still kinda sick this afternoon and was able to do another shot, so i am ok now, and can get some more time under my belt off of the clinic to try again. so my new question is this. i am still scared about what happens NEXT time its time to try and take more (bupe). do you all suppose i knocked most the methadone off my receptors during my little experience last night/this morning? i feel so confused about where i am at now with the mdone, H, and subs being in my system. but, regardless, tomorrow is friday, last dose was monday, if i wait til i feel like i am dying i SHOULD be ok now, right??? also, someone said something about me only having 8mg suboxone at hand. that's incorrect, i have pretty much as much as i need at my disposal. thanks BLers.

also, just thought to mention it, i have a pretty high metabolism. i know 4 days off 'done won't be perfect, but between the metabolism and the fact i already DID take a little suboxone... i'm not going to go through PWs again? right??? god, i hope i'm right.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Try to wait 24 hrs after your last heroin dose.

Btw, what is generally referred to as a "high metabolism" does not equate to being a fast metabolizer of methadone. It depends on your liver enzymes. If a person metabolizes methadone quickly they will usually not be able to go 24 hrs between methadone doses without getting WDs. So is that what you meant, or did you just mean a general "fast metabolism", like you are slim etc?

 

[Princess_Poppy]

^^both i guess, i am slim, and i also can't imagine how ppl say methadone wds don't hit until 72 hrs. no, i could not have made it a day without something else. so my last heroin dose wast yesterday at 5 or 6, i am pretty sick now, but if nothing else experiencing PWs gave me MAJOR perspective. i am not that sick yet! jesus. i think i will try to wait 36? then i should be ok right? i'm really terrified i could still have enough methadone to cause a problem in my system. i don't know...

 

[Princess_Poppy]

i just looked over the cows scale and it's a simplified one, so i am not sure sure, but i am definitely over 20? in case this helps. man, i wonder what i what have scored the other day when i wouldve scored highest on everything :/ i just keep reminding myself how much worse it could be. but i want to take the subs now so bad

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I'm sorry, I'm not sure what to tell you. My best guess is that you'll be ok but i can't guarantee it, PWs are so variable from person to person. I have heard some people say that when they take the bupe too soon and get PWs they take more bupe a couple hrs later and it helps... Good luck!

 

[Princess_Poppy]

thanks, i just wish i knew how successful the bupe was at getting the methadone off my receptors before. that would make the biggest diff. if i knew i was just going through normal heroin wd, i wouldn't be scared to take it at all. the other night was terrifying. i found a complete cows assessment, and yeah, i would have been over 40 :/ so i think it is a reasonable fear. i don't ever ever want to go through anything like that EVER again. from back when i was just on dope, i can remember sometimes feeling shitty for an hr or so after taking bupe, i can deal with that. its what happened to me the other day that is scary i'll let you know how it goes. i am not gonna make it til 5 i think...

 

[Princess_Poppy]

i just took it!!!! 8mg. i'm ok!!!!!! i am happy i didn't wait, it just now finished dissolving and i ALREADY FEEL SO MUCH BETTER. maybe a lil shaky, but i am not used to bupe. i remember it giving me a slightly speeding feeling back in the day. pre-methadone. so 5 days was enough. i'm so happy i just got off methadone!!!! didn't really do it the right way, but i didn't have the money to taper. i don't know if i would have said it was worth it night before last, but i'm glad i'm here. yea

 

[Tony Williams]

MY ADVICE stop 'done and use heroin or morphine or something. Get all the 'done out you take a shot/dose in the afternoon and KO TO SLEEP. The next morning I would say SUBUTEX NOT SUBOXONE - snort 2mg in the morning then wait a few hrs and dose up.

^^^^^^ I know you've done it it already just my advise. meth>bupe can be bad.

Also - anyone comment on my methadone skydive? lets say 70mg/day 'done > 24mg bupe (rough match)

DAY 1 DOSE 70MG - NOW STOP
DAY 2 35MG SHOULD BE IN YOUR SYSTEM (IGNORING BA'S)
DAY 3 17.5 WD'S HITTING?? USE OXY/H/MORPHINE
DAY 4 8.5MG 'DONE SHOULD BE IN YOU AND USUALLY THIS IS WHEN YOU CAN START ON BUPE
DAY 5 4.25MG 'DONE (ALMOST GONE) SO ABOUT 4-5PM SHOOT THE LAST OF YOUR HERION AND COME NIGHT TIME SUMMIT TO KO
DAY 7 2.XXMG DONE SO IT'S MORNING AND H IS WORN OFF AND YOU'RE LIKE CRAP - GET BUPE OR SUBUTEX AND SNORT 2MG AND WAIT A FEW HOURS AND KEEP GOING TILL 6-8MG?
DAY 8 - SNORT A FULL 8MG IN THE MORNING AND LATER IF YOU'RE OKAY SUB 8-16MG
DAY 9 24MG SUB
**********

ANYONE TRIED THIS?

 

[Princess_Poppy]

yeah ^^ my immediate reaction was I'M OKAY! EVERYTHING'S HUNKY DOREY... i jumped the gun a bit. although i was relieved of most of my WD symptoms, as time went on, i realized i wasn't really feeling too hot at all. it was different though, different from WD i have had before. it was mostly chills, hot and cold flashes, but mostly just feeling very cold. hairs on end. my nipples stayed so hard it became painful by the end of the day (this lasted about 12hrs as most report from PW). i also got the feeling i was purging things from my body. my sweat didn't smell the same, my urine was dark despite trying to stay hydrated, and i felt WEAK. even this morning, i almost dropped a pint glass of water for no good reason, i could barely grip it. i thought i had already had my PW experience, but i guess not completely. so just kept taking suboxone, hoping the issue was an insufficient dose. i ended up taking a whopping total of 24mg yesterday. i did feel better each time i dosed, but maybe that was just the time passing. tonight, the next day, i am feeling pretty good. decent energy, finally ate something, etc. i have only taken 10mg or so for the day.

do you all think its the antagonist in suboxone that could have contributed to some of these symptoms? i guess maybe methadone really is just a bitch :/ tony, did you have a similar experience? do you all think i should try to simply detox off of suboxone as well? after what i have gone through getting off of done, i am really scared of the similar experience i have to look forward to here. am i going to experience PAWS whether i stop sooner or later because of being on methadone for so long prior to this? i am just kind of shocked i was able to take so little suboxone today, despite the chorus of you all always saying "less is more". could i technically just keep going down since i'm not used to THIS drug yet? or does having been on methadone affected my opioid receptors to the extent that it doesn't matter if it's bupe or done... i'm in for a hellish final detox?

 

[Princess_Poppy]

and yeah tony, i pretty much did do exactly what you did. successful? maybe. i think using a short acting opiate is a good idea for longer than you or i did. if i could have afforded it, i think waiting a week to start suboxone would have produced much less ill effects.

 

[Swain]

24mg bupe for 70mg methadone is atleast twice as much as you need. Prepare you self for a shitty transition..no matter how long you wait it will not be seamless, but you can def avoid precip withdrawals.

I was on 80mg methadone for well over a year and switched to 12mg bupe which was more than enough.. I got down to half that in just a month. What I did was I took my last dose of methadone, then I used dope for 4 days, then waited 30 hours to dose my bupe. I had a little bit of k to help me reach 30 hours.. I did not get mcuh releif my 1st dose but it also did nto get any worse. After 10 days I was feeling 100% and it was so fucking great to have methadone out of my life. Bupe was so much better to be on IMO.

My boy did the same thing and switched from 135 and he was only using 6mg bupe daily, but he IV's his bupe vs me who takes it sublingually. The 1st few days you will feel like you need more bupe, but you will notice that the more you take doesn;'t give you any results. This is when people mistakenly think they need 24+ mg bupe./ There is nothing you can do the 1st 3 days, it will be a bit of a tough transition. Just tough it out and youll be feeling better than you ever did on methadone in no time.

Walking out of that clinic was the best thing I ever did.

If you switch from 70mg meth to 24mg bupe your toleriance is literally going to SKYROCKET. and you will be more opiate dependant than ever before.

 

[Princess_Poppy]

^^ thank you for confirming my suspicions, you'd think i'd know better, being a BLer. of course i didn't need the 24mg yesterday. i was just desperate for relief. like i said, today only 12mg, and i am TEMPTED to take more... but i think it would be silly, it wouldn't make me feel better. thank you for giving me hope, it REALLY is a tough switch. my bf, who has kicked dope cold turkey numerous times, and who is sick right now, was kind of pissed at me for complaining about feeling like shit. but you just can't jump off of methadone, which i literally did, and expect to be okay. even with the suboxone.

SO, what i really want to know now is should i immediately try to taper off the suboxone? lets say within the month? is that stupid? i want to think suboxone could be a shortcut off methadone, but maybe that is naive. i appreciate that some of you will probably say this is a bad idea because of relapse potential, and you may be right... but i am nonetheless curious as to how possible this might be. thoughts?

 

[Swain]

^^ thank you for confirming my suspicions, you'd think i'd know better, being a BLer. of course i didn't need the 24mg yesterday. i was just desperate for relief. like i said, today only 12mg, and i am TEMPTED to take more... but i think it would be silly, it wouldn't make me feel better. thank you for giving me hope, it REALLY is a tough switch. my bf, who has kicked dope cold turkey numerous times, and who is sick right now, was kind of pissed at me for complaining about feeling like shit. but you just can't jump off of methadone, which i literally did, and expect to be okay. even with the suboxone.

SO, what i really want to know now is should i immediately try to taper off the suboxone? lets say within the month? is that stupid? i want to think suboxone could be a shortcut off methadone, but maybe that is naive. i appreciate that some of you will probably say this is a bad idea because of relapse potential, and you may be right... but i am nonetheless curious as to how possible this might be. thoughts?

Well that all depends on what your goals are.. IMO suboxone is a great way to get off methadone. Tapering on methadone can be brutal, and being a full agonist it becomes very hard to stay with your taper schedule if you have a week+ of takehomes etc.. WIth bupe, once you have adjusted, you have absolutely no desire to take extra, and even fi you were to take 2x or 3x your dose you would not get even a hint of a high.

The 1st days are the worst, after 4 days you will feel a worlds difference than you did on day one, and after 10 days ofj ust bupe, you will be feeling GREAT. Just tough it out till then. If I was you, I would aim on stabalizing at 8-12mg over the next 10 days befor eyou consider any tapering of any sort. Then you have to play it by ear. You can taper with bupe in such a way that you never have withdrawals, you just can not be jumping between bupe and dope and fucking around like that. If you are willing to have some pain during the taper process you can go quicker.. This all depends on how long youve been on opaites/methadone etc.. So it;s hard to say specifically.

What I would do is after 2 weeks of 8 -12mg you could reduct 25% every 2 weeks. So for instance youd go from 8mg to 6mg, then 6 to 4.5, then 4.5 to 3.375 and so on. You take 25% off the current dose for every reduction so your reductions get smaller and smaller. You could try to go as quick as every 7 days and probably stay pain free. You want to avoid goign throguh withdrawals, being stuck awake, chill etc.. because this is when it's likely you will relapse on dope or mdone. Really th ekey is, is not using dope or other drugs. If you are switchign back and forth between bupe and dope you will likely never make much progress. Getting off drugs is not just about detoxing, you have to change everything.

Someone who tapers down to 1mg bupe and has not used drugs in 2 years is in a whole different position than someone who is down to 1mg bupe and takes weekly vacations using dope. Detoxing is tough..but unfortunately it is essentially only part of the battle. Some might say the easy part. You have to stay OFF drugs, so that when a month goes by after you detox, you don't start tthe hole process over again.

Don'/t try and microwave your recovery.. focus on other aspects of your life and taper your bupe in the background. You don;twant to be bedridden with withdrawals. You want the taper just going on in the background. Be methodical, make a calendar, don't go back on your plan. Don't read all the horror stories online, half of them are peopel who still use dope and half are complainers. The people who successfully get off drugs don't ventur eover to bluelight to say HEY IG OT OFF BUPE. It;s the people who are still stuck in a drug-riddled life that complain, 'oh i shoulda just stayed doing heroin becuase the withdrawals are over in 3 days (rightttt, fantasy land). bupe wtihdrawals last forever etc.' all tha bullshit.

If you taper properly and get down to <0.5mg daily preferebly 0.25mg and skipping days between doses, the withdrawal is a walk in the park no exageration. If you have been on bupe 2 years and try to jump off at 2mg, well thats your own fault. If you use heroin 50% of the time and spend the other 50% transitioning back to bupe, agailn, your fault. It takes a long time to become physically dependent on opiates, why some people think there should be some pain free way to get off them is beyond me.

 

[Princess_Poppy]

thanks. i really appreciate your responses. it's a lot to think about, i guess i will just try and stay on a dose that is comfortable and just keep barely lowering it to nothing. the relapse potential is a bit of a concern though, although i am really broke right now, so maybe that will help keep me in line. thanks

 

[Tony Williams]

Also SUBOXONE is BUPE+NAL so it's a dual blockage so the pre-wds are bad over just bupe. I had 30-40mg+ meth and did 4mg bupe ORAL 1-2 day after (was not in wd and HAD to dose it at the DDU for some reason) and laTER i FELT A bit off so so used heroin - the day after i did 8mg sublingal and 3-5hr later I was sweating aweful I could not keep still it grew worse. I called my h dealer and drove to the location which was awful and fucking dangerious but the state I was in and how bad I felt I drove sorta with my head out the window - like a dog. I think it was 10 FUCKING minutes but felt 40min - I snorted 1 bag and after 5 min felt miles better - I drove back slowly and careful, driving like this was dam stupid but so is jumping meth>bupe at chemists its a pain - ideally DIY yourself low snorted doses and bring upto your ok dose.

Problem is our doctors ar one size fits all - everyone tends to go on 16mg and 2mg per month. If I go 3week clean I wanna drop and if I don't I'll just part swallow my dose. First 5 days or 12 days (done) you still have some wd from the fact it's a full opi.