Meth Meth HCI or Freebase?

[bipedalhominid]

Is the residue that builds up in the pipe from from HCI or or is Freebase?


What about the product you get when you evaporate pipe water? Is Is that Freebase or or is that HCI?

 

[tj7]

Is the residue that builds up in the pipe from from HCI or or is Freebase?


What about the product you get when you evaporate pipe water? Is Is that Freebase or or is that HCI?

Well, assuming you are smoking unadulterated gear, it's not really so much a residue as it's simply methamphetamine hydrochloride that has recondensed from vapor onto the cooler parts of the pipe's interior surface, like steam (water vapor) from a shower recondenses on a bathroom mirror (cooler surface). As for evaporating pipe water, the resulting product would be all the methamphetamine hydrochloride that came into actual contact with water molecules and thus was dissolved while bubbling through it along with any adulterants that are also soluble in water.

 

[Docta]

As for evaporating pipe water, the resulting product would be all the methamphetamine hydrochloride that came into actual contact with water molecules and thus was dissolved while bubbling through it along with any adulterants that are also soluble in water.

Kind of but not exactly.

The amount of meth that ends up in the water depends on how acidic the water becomes, when heated meth and hydrogen chloride become dissociated becoming separate compounds, therefore the meth freebase vapor wont desolve into water until the water takes up enough HCl that it becomes sufficiently polar. This is why not a lot is recovered after evoporation.

 

[tj7]

Kind of but not exactly.

The amount of meth that ends up in the water depends on how acidic the water becomes, when heated meth and hydrogen chloride become dissociated becoming separate compounds, therefore the meth freebase vapor wont desolve into water until the water takes up enough HCl that it becomes sufficiently polar. This is why not a lot is recovered after evoporation.

By the time it reaches the water the meth has already reassociated with the HCl making it readily soluble in water.

 

[Docta]

By the time it reaches the water the meth has already reassociated with the HCl making it readily soluble in water.

Really, how exactly will this proton transfer take place with competition from water molecule in the air?

I'm not saying some random interactions don’t take place, but the absence of a proton transfer solution or other coordinating solvent would make for less-than-ideal reassociation conditions.

 

[tj7]

Really, how exactly will this proton transfer take place with competition from water molecule in the air?

I'm not saying some random interactions don’t take place, but the absence of a proton transfer solution or other coordinating solvent would make for less-than-ideal reassociation conditions.

MA HCl disassociates to MA freebase and HydroChloride. HydroChloride comes into contact with atmospheric water vapor and gets dissolved becoming hydrochloric acid which goes on to contact MA freebase and forms the (hydrated)hydrochloride salt of methamphetamine.

 

[Docta]

MA HCl disassociates to MA freebase and HydroChloride. HydroChloride comes into contact with atmospheric water vapor and gets dissolved becoming hydrochloric acid which goes on to contact MA freebase and forms the (hydrated)hydrochloride salt of methamphetamine.

Well, I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree on that one.

Now I’m not saying the combined electronegativity of both the lone pair of non-bonding amino group electrons coupled with electron-donating methyl group doesn’t exert sufficient molecular force to initiate dipole-dipole interactions. Thing is the math for the conjugates just doesn’t add up.

First look at the methamphetamine freebase or more accurately referring to its conjugate acid, methylammonium, with a pKa value of 10.6 a strong Lewis base.

Next Hydrogen Chloride gas pKa > -7 a very strong Lewis acid. So strong in fact I could almost get behind the two magickly forming a salt.

Now add water into the mix, we’re now dealing with hydronium ions with a pKa value of 0.0 still a Lewis acid but with far less interactivity than that of HCl. With no coordinating solvent or transfer medium I can’t see how this “(hydrated)hydrochloride salt” is formed.

Without a detailed mechanism for how this reaction is taking place I’m happy to go with my interpretation.

 

[4DQSAR]

I honestly don't know how methamphetamine is consumed but as a general rule, if one is salting a basic compound, the issue is that a vapour (or an aerosol) of a freebase compound passing through an acidic liquid can only form a salt at the interface. In the case of related compounds, dry hydrogen chloride is bubbled through a solution of the freebase product and a plug of glass wool is used to make those bubbles as small as possible. Even then, a large excess is used.

As it is, in solution hydrogen chloride itself dissociates into H+ and Cl- ions. I don't know the pKa values off hand but those stated sound about right.

I think what is apposite is the fact that freebase methamphetamine is a liquid at STP. Recently several seizures of the freebase took place. I can only speculate that the smuggler thought that a liquid would seem less suspicious. I believe that at least a small quantity of the freebase was distributed but it seems like it was quite niche. One thing I DO know about users is that they much prefer a product they recognize and understand.

But in this specific situation, I really cannot assert what reactions take place. If some unknown residue forms, it can be extremely difficult to know what compounds are present.

 

[xXTheGrimOneXx]

Meth in freebase form is an oil.

By the time it reaches the water the meth has already reassociated with the HCl making it readily soluble in water.

Kind of but not exactly.

The amount of meth that ends up in the water depends on how acidic the water becomes, when heated meth and hydrogen chloride become dissociated becoming separate compounds, therefore the meth freebase vapor wont desolve into water until the water takes up enough HCl that it becomes sufficiently polar. This is why not a lot is recovered after evoporation.

It’s a compounding effect. Temp of
Water, amount of dwell or contact with the water, how much drug is consumed through the water.

You’ve obviously never reclaimed your water before. You smoke a good amount and you get a good amount back.

Meth is highly soluble in water solid, or gaseous.