Mescaline Ayahuasca = Ecstatic Vision Quest

[Dragon-n]

after posting a few things about MDMA i had heard somebody recommending caapi plus mescaline, being rather "ecstatic" itself.
of course, we are not trying to recreate MDMA here, but ecstasy comes in many forms.
i had experience with rue and cactus, but not caapi. rue plus cactus was okay...nothing to gush about. mellow...warm....drowsy...
previously i only had one caapi experience (48 grams) and it was an overdose. a horrendous, dizzying, puke-laden overdose.
this time i went carefully....20 grams caapi tea.
after i stabilized on the caapi tea (one hour) i was feeling quite mellow and good.
i was in a fairly psychedelic state, plus 1.5, and was getting those weird "brain surge, vertigo flashes" in my head from caapi.
anyone get those???

after i realized i had nailed the caapi dose and was "in the clear," 200 mgs. purified mescaline acetate was taken.

pure mescaline takes me pretty much exactly 2 1/2 hours to peak.
like clock-work i scaled up the long mescaline mountain reaching new heights every 15 minutes or so.
the last 30 minutes is always a steeper incline, getting progressively higher quicker.
within the mellow, relaxed, caapi vibration there was now an energy stirring like nothing i've experienced from rue-based "ayahuascas."
profound kundalini buzzing at the base of my spine, reaching up and settling at the spiritual eye in the forehead,
illuminating the body with the phenethylamine charge of ecstatic bliss.

ayahuasca with energy.
feels like rue + acid.

the mind is spaciously large, encompassing the entire caapi spectrum, with lightening beaming from below streaking the mental skies.
caapi is very warm....mescaline is very warm.
mescaline ayahuasca is the warmest bath i've ever rested in.

the caapi glow is deepened and expanded. the mescaline flashes of light are deepened and expanded.
caapi breaths into mescal breaths into caapi. each strengthens and tones the other.
the caapi turns off the speediness, the mescaline reacts by speeding the caapi up.
i could find perfect rest in trance or in motion.
lying down or pacing...hyper and giddy as a child, restful as a sage.

i have added my testimony to many others saying that harmalas plus stimulants (well, GENTLE stimulants anyway) equals a cancellation of the stimulant properties.
well yes.....but no. i disagree now....i retract my statements....but i still agree.

somehow it's both.

i also blame the fact that by the time the mescaline was peaking i had already been on the caapi tea for 3 hours.
so by the time we're in full swing, the caapi would normally be dwindling slightly.
this was most notable later on in the evening as the caapi started dwindling and the mescaline said, "hey, we're just getting started."

caapi strengthens the mescaline by about 2.
it felt equivalent to about 400 mgs. mescaline.
it made it more intense in some ways and less intense in others.
i could have been 3 times as high and i wouldn't have panicked.

not because i'm tough-stuff or anything, but because the caapi brings equal-minded dispassionate observation to the ego-thought processes.
i experienced this same thing with Rue + Acid.
while under the harmala calmness i tried licking a drop off of an acid-solution bottle tip and accidently licked the whole nozzle.
uh-oh....maybe 5 hits maybe 10. uh-oh....
i layed down in bed with my rue-based dispassion and said, "bring it on, sweetheart."

i felt more spaced-out and high than mescal alone, but also more grounded and incapable of over-reaction.

perennial peace.

caapi lengthens the mescaline a great deal.
mescaline peaks are over around 3 or 3 1/2 hours for me, even from bigger doses.
i was clearly in the deepest end of the pool for 6 or 7 hours.
12 hours after dosing i was still VERY high.

like "don't leave your house" high at twelve hours.

feel rather jangly and shaky as it's coming off.
it's like the caapi left and took my soothed nerves with it.

effects from this combo were easily a plus 3 but the way it was experienced was like it was only plus 2.
ironic, sure, but it's like there's a certain "grace" the caapi gives to high-intensity experiences.
i have found this "grace" with rue also. but caapi's alkaloids add something that rue will never be able to touch.
this is unmistakable.

this is hands-down one of the most breathtaking experiences to date. A+ for sure.
highly highly recommended.
but i nailed it because i was careful and consciencious. it could easily have been very uncomfortable for a VERY long time.

if you don't know your comfortable caapi dose, than don't take the mescaline until you've stabilized.
the last thing you want is too much caapi with mescaline lengthening it by 16 hours.
if you haven't tried your cactus powder, don't take it for the first time with caapi.
try the cactus powder one day and find the dose that really gets you there.
then cut the cactus dose in half or a little more than half.

start low, you can always add more next time.

peace and love,
dragon

 

[Ismene]

Are you one of those people who get an intense trip from harmaline alone dragon?

I'm just wondering whether the harmaline did anything to the mescaline or whether it was just the combo of effects. 200mg of mescaline is a pretty low dose. Did it just feel like mescaline?

Mushrooms + moclobemide doesn't really "potentiate" mushrooms - it turns a mushroom trip more into a DMT trip. I'm wondering how an MAOI affects mescaline tho.

Nice info - cheers

 

[Flickering]

Hey Dragon - that sounds really interesting and I'm glad it worked well. A true vision quest would be a special thing to experience.

Mescaline + MAO inhibitors is a physically dangerous combination and not generally recommended. It can work out just fine, as in your case, or it can cause serious complications during the trip. If anyone else is thinking of trying this, make sure to do plenty of research first and start with very low doses of each.

 

[Dragon-n]

Are you one of those people who get an intense trip from harmaline alone dragon?

I'm just wondering whether the harmaline did anything to the mescaline or whether it was just the combo of effects. 200mg of mescaline is a pretty low dose. Did it just feel like mescaline?

Mushrooms + moclobemide doesn't really "potentiate" mushrooms - it turns a mushroom trip more into a DMT trip. I'm wondering how an MAOI affects mescaline tho.

I've had quite an intense experience from too much caapi vine...OEV's and all. but we're talking WAY too much caapi for my nervous system, not even ballpark with something I would use in an ayahuasca brew, so no, i don't necessarily trip hard on harmalas by themselves (in reasonable doses).

the harmalas make the mescaline dose X2 or X2.5. so it's more like a 400-500mg mescaline experience, as far as intensity goes.
but, as i said, it's actually experienced in a mellower way. hard to explain, but it's more chilled out.

it did not feel like straight mescaline at all, actually. it's synonymous with what shamans have said about traditional ayahuasca brews since time immemorial: the caapi is the teacher, the "light" (DMT, mescaline, etc.) merely opens up the doors for caapi to be experienced fully. in my post i said it feels like ayahuasca, but with energy. which is to say, it's reminiscent of DMT-based ayahuascas, but replace all the insanity with utter clarity and electro-bliss! =)

also, if you want to know how a reversible MAOI effects mescaline, all you have to do is take unrefined cactus powder. from what i've read and experienced, all Trichocereus cacti have MAOI properties to varying degrees, perhaps Pedro and Bridgesii taking the cake. These other alkaloids in cactus A) make the mescaline more potent, B) exert a relaxing effect, and C) make the experience "fuller," or felt more deeply in the body and mind. Pure mescaline is wonderful, but it's more cerebral, in my experience, and lacks the full depth that the plants offer it. using caapi as a base for pure mescaline provides a similar model of enhancement that comes in the full-spectrum cactus alkaloids, themselves.

Though, in my opinion, there is something almost absurdly special about what caapi does to mescaline.

 

[Dragon-n]

Mescaline + MAO inhibitors is a physically dangerous combination and not generally recommended. It can work out just fine, as in your case, or it can cause serious complications during the trip. If anyone else is thinking of trying this, make sure to do plenty of research first and start with very low doses of each.

Being quite sensitive to all medicines, I am quite okay with recommending people to the shallow end of the pool whenever I can. However, there is a difference between harm reduction and misinformation. If, if, if, if and only if you fully understand what you're doing and start LOW, there really isn't risk in this combination within boundaries of reason.

and not just from my experience, this combination is a tried and true shamanic formula.

I have read of ayahuascaros putting san pedro in their brews since long before science tried to put nifty definitions on the metabolic process.

And not to take away from your wise words, Flickering, they are completely appropriate, but when articles speak of MAOI's, they are actually talking about full-blown, irreversible enzyme inhibition that lasts for weeks (Pharmaceuticals). Caapi and Rue are actually not even MAOI's but RIMA's, which is a Reversible Inhibitor of Monoamine subtype A. Tryptamines are digested by monoamine subtype A, and phenethylamines are digested by monamine subtype B. thus, beyond potentiation there is technically no actual metabolic danger involved.

the first time i took bridgesii i (stupidly) took rue with it. i peaked for 12 hours and thought i was going to die. for about a year, i was certain that the rue was responsible for my seeming demise. then i took a similar amount of bridgesii without the rue and was peaking for 6 hours feeling every single one of the unpleasant body-jarring sensations i felt a year before, though far less intensely. too much bridgesii is too much bridgesii, and no precaution will save you from its wrath. I've accidentally taken pedro to the equivalent of 1-1.5 GRAMS of mescaline. it was freakin' terrible, and i thought i was going to die. was it because of the naturally occurring enzyme inhibitors? well, they probably didn't help the situation.... =)

and as i said in my last post (and you can find this information anywhere, i believe), there are already MAOI-style RIMA's that come naturally in cactus. so the entire human population has been an ongoing science experiment, already for 1,000's of years, taking RIMA's with mescaline. if you take San Pedro and react badly to a medium/large dose, you would naturally never want to use it with caapi. if you feel, like 99% of the population, that Pedro is very relaxing and gentle, you've just experienced what caapi will do to a similar level of intensity (with the dosage cut into a half or third).

for the record, i would never, ever, ever, ever even think about taking rue or caapi with any other phenethylamine besides mescaline, EVER!
anecdotal evidence is clear that there is too much variability in the potentiation to be genuinely reliable. mescaline is, as far as i know, the only Phen that simultaneously has an obvious dose-curve, a not-so-speedy effect at normal doses, and a history of human interaction with enzymatic modification.

Be safe, be cautious, be patient, be observant, but don't be scared....=)

 

[Flickering]

Didn't actually realise that, thanks for sharing. I think mescaline ayahuasca sounds freaking incredible and I'd love to try it, so maybe I will someday, after a lot of research for safety.

I'm about to take a very strong san pedro trip that could, conceivably, enter the 1 - 1.5g field - you never can tell with cuttings. It will probably be more like 700mg or 800mg, but that's still very strong. But if anything, I seem to have a resistance to mescaline, and I can't imagine anything but a truly massive dose turning on me. Hoping it goes well, though...

 

[Dragon-n]

I seem to have a resistance to mescaline, and I can't imagine anything but a truly massive dose turning on me.

Have you ever gotten dried-green-outer-flesh-only strips and eaten them in unprocessed powder form? or do you use whole cactus and make a tea?

Dried outer green flesh can easily contain 5% mescaline by weight, and if you don't add heat, and swallow the whole powder, you won't lose a single molecule. A lot of people have weak results because they boil out a lot of the goodies by heating and straining a brew. 5% dried strips, powdered and swallowed in gel caps or liquid will send you to the moon and back in not-so-large doses.

viva mescal!

 

[dg420]

if you don't add heat, and swallow the whole powder, you won't lose a single molecule. A lot of people have weak results because they boil out a lot of the goodies by heating and straining a brew.

no, you cant boil out any goodies using water


lot of incorrect info about cacti gets tossed around

 

[Flickering]

Thanks for the tip. I've never had dried flesh. Every attempt I've had to dry a cactus (which sounds like it would be easier to get down than tea, anyway), has failed and degraded the quality of the cactus. You'd think leaving star cuttings in the sun for a couple of days would do the trick, but somehow it's never worked for me.

I do cook tea. I always simmer it on low heat. I suspect I get poor results because I just haven't cooked it for long enough, and some of the mescaline stays in the pulp, which I dispose of.

 

[Dragon-n]

no, you cant boil out any goodies using water
lot of incorrect info about cacti gets tossed around

regardless of what causes it, whether heat or straining the pulp or santa claus, do you really think that a tea is as potent as straight up cactus?

It's true that mescaline is relatively stable, but what of the dozens of other known and unknown chemicals, whose presence, let alone whose properties, we have not a single clue about?

To say that nothing is lost through isolation and consolidation is simply not possible.
but to each his own...i'm just saying IF you haven't had success with teas, there is another way.
and i never need more than 5-10 grams of dried powder (outer flesh only) when eating it whole. i've never heard of tea-drinkers claiming such small figures. As always, I could be completely retarded...8(

Flickering You'd think leaving star cuttings in the sun for a couple of days would do the trick, but somehow it's never worked for me.

try cutting the stars thinner and make sure it's HOT when you put 'em out. has taken me daaays before, but always works eventually. or better yet, buy a dehydrator for $100 and have all the dried stars you want in 24 hours! =)

 

[Flickering]

Interesting point, but the loss of potency in tea could just be a case of bad cooking. For example, how much mescaline gets sweated out of the pulp before you stop cooking? Do you need to do it for longer? Did you boil it at any point? (Because that would definitely kill off the mescaline very fast.) Did you lose any liquid in the final product by boiling it down to 50mLs and then missing some at the bottom of the pot? (Losing just 5mLs would take a 500mg trip down to 450mg.) You could be right, though. As to 5-10g of dried outer-layer flesh being enough to trip, I'm not sure what the fresh equivalent of outer flesh would be, but the first time I took cactus, I gobbled my way through 7 inches of the raw stuff. It was enough for a very mild trip that lasted about 5 hours.

 

[Ismene]

It's true that mescaline is relatively stable, but what of the dozens of other known and unknown chemicals, whose presence, let alone whose properties, we have not a single clue about?

I think we know what's in cactus tho dragon. While peyote has upwards of 60 alkaloids which might have some synergistic effect, san pedro only has half a dozen or so of which mescaline is by far the major active principal.

5% dried strips, powdered and swallowed in gel caps or liquid will send you to the moon and back in not-so-large doses.

They'll send you to the toilet and back too. If you've ever dropped dried powdered cactus into a crockpot of water and seen how it blows up to 10 times it's original volume..well imagine that happening in your stomach. I was puking like a sick fucking dog.

 

[Dragon-n]

I think we know what's in cactus tho dragon. While peyote has upwards of 60 alkaloids which might have some synergistic effect, san pedro only has half a dozen or so of which mescaline is by far the major active principal.

Ya know, you're right, I feel like i was exaggerating a little bit. sorry!
i actually read your response before tripping yesterday, and i ended up introspecting quite deeply about my meaning, realizing that clarity of purpose is hard to achieve in a few short posts.

i think all i was trying to get across is that, in my experience, every single cactus has such a unique experience to offer and is much, much more complex than mescaline itself. not that you guys are doing this at all, but i have noticed other people constantly bringing cactus to a level of "mescaline content," without giving much thought to how the "whole" creates the particular vibration.

the best example i can think of is Bridgesii and Juul's Giant, which, for me at least, produce very unique experiences at levels in which mescaline could only be a distant influence. Pedro and Torch are more decidedly mescaline-like, though pedro is much dreamier (sleepier) with torch being the closest to pure mescaline (without a hint of drowsiness). all this is my experience, of course, and is all i have to go on, besides comparing notes with other souls, like yourselves.

5% dried strips, powdered and swallowed in gel caps or liquid will send you to the moon and back in not-so-large doses.They'll send you to the toilet and back too. If you've ever dropped dried powdered cactus into a crockpot of water and seen how it blows up to 10 times it's original volume..well imagine that happening in your stomach. I was puking like a sick fucking dog.

ya know, i admit that i'm skewed by my experience on this as well. i personally don't get any body load from eating the dried powder, nor do my friends, which would naturally make me feel like it's a waste of energy to put so much effort into extraneous preparations. i realize that most people do need teas to stomach cactus. i just hear so much about people not getting the effects that they want and hope that the preparation isn't what's causing it. admittedly though, there are many-a weak cacti out there if you don't know where to look!

if we are all experiencing the subtle (and not so subtle) differences between different Tricho species, then great! obviously, preparation is secondary to embracing these teachers with open arms!

joy to y'all!

(end of rant....)

 

[corky2]

I've tried torch with caapi,a nd found it a very rewarding experience.
I've eatten raw torch powder...sometimes I've gotten awy with it, other times I've barfed before attaining full effects.
I've done water extracts, but have found alcohol extarts far more effective..What I do is take 150 grams of powdered torch, put it in a half-gallon of cheap vodka..shake it with intention for about week, strain it and evaporate it down to about 4 or 5 oz of sap. This I find good for about 3 to 5 trips, depending on how deep I want to go.

I have expereince with traditional water extactions, but find the vodka extraction far more powerfull (and requiring no heat) so there you go.