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Mescaline active metabolite N,N-dimethyl-3-(3,4,5-trimethoxyphenyl)propan-1-amine

yaesutom

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So i'm searching around the net and stumbled across somebody talking about how mescaline needs to be metabolize into something else to be active - and i said i was unaware of this.. he sent me a link to a weird forum with some discussion about it. Here's some of one of the posts:

One of mescaline’s metabolites is known as 3,4,5-trimethoxyphenylacetaldehyde. If the aldehyde enzyme system is compromised, 3,4,5-trimethoxyphenylacetaldehyde can combine with dimethylamine to form an alkaloid known as N,N-dimethyl-3-(3,4,5-trimethoxyphenyl)propan-1-amine. This alkaloid is nearly identical to the dimethylamine alkaloid metabolite of elemicin known as 3-(dimethylamino)-1-(3,4,5-trimethoxyphenyl)propan-1-one. The only difference is that the elemicin metabolite has oxygen on the 1 position of the tail and the mescaline metabolite doesn’t.

N,N-dimethyl-3-(3,4,5-trimethoxyphenyl)propan-1-amine has an XLogP3 2.1. This is high enough to produce psychedelic effects. Mescaline itself cannot. This is because of it’s very low XLogP3. So this is very possibly the active metabolite of mescaline. It’s probably very potent, active at a few mg. But in order to form, the aldehyde enzymes need to be inhibited.

I am willing to bet that mescaline inhibits the aldehyde enzymes (such as xanthine oxidase) just enough to allow this other alkaloid to form.

The dimethylamine form of elemicin known as 3-(dimethylamino)-1-(3,4,5-trimethoxyphenyl)propan-1-one has an XLogP of 1.5. This is not that great. This is why taking filtered black pepper tea helps improve the effects of elemicin. It causes the piperidine form to be created instead. 3-piperidin-1-yl-1-(3,4,5-trimethoxyphenyl)propan-1-one has an XLogP3 of 2.3. This forms when you supplement with piperidine (from black pepper tea).

It’s very likely that if this theory is correct then supplementing with filtered black pepper tea will greatly potentiate the effects of mescaline, because instead of mescaline forming N,N-dimethyl-3-(3,4,5-trimethoxyphenyl)propan-1-amine as its potential active metabolite, it would form the piperidine metabolite which has an XLogP3 of 3.34.

Note that caffeine very noticeably boosts the effects of all allylbenzenes in a way identical to how it works for mescaline (this is judging by the impact it has on the experience according to SWIM).

Note also that caffeine is a xanthine oxidase inhibitor. This might help N,N-dimethyl-3-(3,4,5-trimethoxyphenyl)propan-1-amine form from 3,4,5-trimethoxyphenylacetaldehyde. It’s very likely that 3,4,5-trimethoxyphenylacetaldehyde is attacked by xanthine oxidase because its an aldehyde. Xanthine oxidase attacks a lot of aldehydes, and could prevent N,N-dimethyl-3-(3,4,5-trimethoxyphenyl)propan-1-amine from forming. So if this is the active metabolite of mescaline, then it makes sense that drinking coffee would potentiate mescaline, and it does.

Also interesting to note is that the phenethylamine form of methyl eugenol, known as 3,4-Dimethoxyphenethylamine occurs with mescaline in many mescaline containing cacti. This, although inactive as a psychedelic, is a very potent aldehyde oxidase inhibitor. Mescaline is 3,4,5- Trimethoxyphenethylamine. It’s just got one more methoxy group, that’s it. I’ll bet mescaline potently inhibits either aldehyde oxidase or xanthine oxidase. That’s why mescaline works. Mescaline probably inhibits the aldehyde enzymes, allowing it’s aldehyde metabolite to form a more potent psychedelic that passes the BBB. Mescaline itself cannot pass the BBB. It’s too water soluble. So only a metabolite can be active.

The dimethylamine metabolites of elemicin and mescaline are shown below. Notice how similar they are.

On the left is the elemicin metabolite 3-(dimethylamino)-1-(3,4,5-trimethoxyphenyl)propan-1-one.

On the right is the mescaline metabolite N,N-dimethyl-3-(3,4,5-trimethoxyphenyl)propan-1-amine.

Its from
http://herbs.mxf.yuku.com/topic/418...-similar-metabolites-form?page=1#.VBt2lPldXPw

Has this been proven? I knew it was possible that some of these psychedelic PEAs might convert to something else which is active but wasn't aware of any of it being proven a fact.
 
It causes the piperidine form to be created instead. 3-piperidin-1-yl-1-(3,4,5-trimethoxyphenyl)propan-1-one has an XLogP3 of 2.3. This forms when you supplement with piperidine (from black pepper tea).

Uh, bullshit. The amount of piperidine you could get from a serving of black pepper tea is miniscule anyway.

The body doesn't, in general, reductively aminate aldehydes... so there's no chance that N,N-dimethyl-mescaline is made.

Also, available evidence points to N-methylation of phenethylamines decreasing their potency... logP is not everything.
 
If this were true, the mesc synth would be redundant and the precursor itself would be a major success right? : p
 
I didn't think he was right but i wasn't 100% sure if its been proven mescaline is definitely the active drug. I remember reading in Pihkal about the possibility DOM (or another DOx) might be converted to something else before being active.

The rest of that forum is sort of interesting - people writing trip reports saying elemicin and other allylbenzenes are like a mescaline trip (sometimes needing to be activated, sometimes not, or usually not working at all). It doesn't seem like they have any reason to lie about it, because it looks like some guy put a ton of work into writing up a bunch of stuff about it and starting a forum etc. I've never tried it myself but sometimes unexpected things happen - like people saying its impossible for PEA to be active orally (even though it gets me super high if i eat a grams of it).
 
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