Men, let's stop talking about fuckers like Tate. Instead, lets talk about who/what a man should be.

[wheresthefun]

Hi everyone.

First: This is a big FUCK YOU AND DIE! to all the real & wannabe rapists like Andrew Tate and the suckers that follow his toxic messages. Im NOT asking for your "opinion" here and I will fight people like you with everything I have, always, everywhere. Keep your shit out of this thread, you're not welcome here and we all see as what you are: pathetic losers.

To all the others: Id like to start a discussion regarding healthy, non-toxic masculinity. As we've seen in the thread about Tate (and everywhere in the "real world"), there are many guys that need orientation.
The world has changed. What was accepted and encouraged a few years-decades ago has now luckily lost its "worth", many traits that were seen as masculine and appropriate in different times are now finally recognized and called out as toxic, wrong, dangerous. That leaves many men in some kind of vacuum, lots of us struggle with their sexual identity.
How do we take care of ourselves, how can we state and satisfy our needs without hurting and suppressing others?
How can we stand our ground without becoming inconsiderate pricks?
How much aggression is ok, in what situations, where is the middle ground between standing up for my self and for my values vs. being someone people spit on?
How tolerant should I be when faced with behaviors I despise?
What makes a man a man?

(This is about harm reduction, too. Men are statistically much more prone to addiction, self-harm, suicide, violence than women and im sure this is because of toxic role models.)

Hoping for a positive, interesting discussion. Thanks!

 

[Electrum1]

I'll stick with thousands of years of traditional male roles/values than 10-15 years of social media values telling me I'm a toxic male and I should check my masculinity in hopes of pleasing people that will hate me anyway

 

[wheresthefun]

Yeah, lets stay in the dark ages.


It's not about pleasing others. It's about developing, keeping and showing moral integrity, values and prosocial behaviours without neglecting yourself. Yes, obviously that's not as easy as just sticking with "traditional values". The world changes and people that still behave like ages ago are primitives. The world needs better men than what people like you represent. The ability to evolve, to adapt and to reflect is what makes us human.

 

[phall]

Interesting opinion, but do u have any thoughts about Andrew Tate?

 

[Electrum1]

The world needs better men than what people like you represent

What do you think I represent?

What I'm saying is that the expectations of "being a man" is pretty much a constant throughout history

 

[elgoucho9]

This thread isn't manly enough.

Infact I'll go as far as to say, this thread is a prime example of toxic masculinity.

Discuss.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

'Nuff sed...

 

[Ismene2]

I don't know about naked hairy men but I'm always impressed the most by an inner gentleness, kindness and a self-deprecating sense of humour.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Hi everyone.

First: This is a big FUCK YOU AND DIE! to all the real & wannabe rapists like Andrew Tate and the suckers that follow his toxic messages. Im NOT asking for your "opinion" here and I will fight people like you with everything I have, always, everywhere. Keep your shit out of this thread, you're not welcome here and we all see as what you are: pathetic losers.

To all the others: Id like to start a discussion regarding healthy, non-toxic masculinity. As we've seen in the thread about Tate (and everywhere in the "real world"), there are many guys that need orientation.
The world has changed. What was accepted and encouraged a few years-decades ago has now luckily lost its "worth", many traits that were seen as masculine and appropriate in different times are now finally recognized and called out as toxic, wrong, dangerous. That leaves many men in some kind of vacuum, lots of us struggle with their sexual identity.
How do we take care of ourselves, how can we state and satisfy our needs without hurting and suppressing others?
How can we stand our ground without becoming inconsiderate pricks?
How much aggression is ok, in what situations, where is the middle ground between standing up for my self and for my values vs. being someone people spit on?
How tolerant should I be when faced with behaviors I despise?
What makes a man a man?

(This is about harm reduction, too. Men are statistically much more prone to addiction, self-harm, suicide, violence than women and im sure this is because of toxic role models.)

Hoping for a positive, interesting discussion. Thanks!

IMO there is nothing that a "man should be". Just be yourself.
There is no thing or things that "make a man" because that would mean that 4 billion people collectively share at least one attribute. Hell, it's 2023 so not even all men have a penis.

Good point about statistics. The ones around men's mental health are shocking. Like women are twice as likely as men to attempt suicide but men are four times more likely than women to actually kill themselves.

 

[Electrum1]

Hell, it's 2023 so not even all men have a penis

You either believe that or you don't, so why would the fact it's 2023 be a qualifier for that belief?

 

[alasdairm]

IMO there is nothing that a "man should be". Just be yourself.

nicely put.

i think the traits that make a man a man can also apply to women: confident but not arrogant; able to admit when wrong; lives in the moment but plans for the future; takes responsibility; leads by example; tells the truth; is true to their word

alasdair

 

[Burnt Offerings]

IMO there is nothing that a "man should be". Just be yourself.
There is no thing or things that "make a man" because that would mean that 4 billion people collectively share at least one attribute. Hell, it's 2023 so not even all men have a penis.

Good point about statistics. The ones around men's mental health are shocking. Like women are twice as likely as men to attempt suicide but men are four times more likely than women to actually kill themselves.

So men share no common attributes except…a proclivity for suicide?

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

You either believe that or you don't, so why would the fact it's 2023 be a qualifier for that belief?

Not 2023 specifically, but in recent years people have become a lot more informed about such things.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

So men share no common attributes except…a proclivity for suicide?

haha maybe

 

[wheresthefun]

nicely put.

i think the traits that make a man a man can also apply to women: confident but not arrogant; able to admit when wrong; lives in the moment but plans for the future; takes responsibility; leads by example; tells the truth; is true to their word

alasdair

That feels right and strangely uncomplicated, thank you for that input. How would/do you react if someone is threatening you/your loved ones/your beliefs? How willing are you to act aggressive to defend what you stand for?

 

[alasdairm]

it would depend on the situation but i would defend my friends and family. with my life if necessary.

alasdair

 

[someguyontheinternet]

nicely put.

i think the traits that make a man a man can also apply to women: confident but not arrogant; able to admit when wrong; lives in the moment but plans for the future; takes responsibility; leads by example; tells the truth; is true to their word

alasdair

I think aspires to be kind and caring could be added to the list

 

[alasdairm]

oh sure. my list was definitely not intended to be considered exhaustive.

alasdair

 

[negrogesic]

There is no one way that a "man" should be.

Humans, like all animals, have varying degrees of sexual dimorphism. Sexually dimorphic traits are simply a set of physical qualities and behaviors that are distinctive/characteristic of a certain sex of a given species. Much of this is a product of sex hormones and genes, and perhaps most importantly, sex hormone exposure during development in the womb as this very strongly influences the degree of dimorphism.

But again while this is a gradient, our perception of a "real man" is based on a maximally, or perhaps near maximally, dimorphic male. So what's thought of as "alpha" or "beta" (or etc) male is to some degree inherent in the human following birth, influenced to some degree by environment.

Those less than maximally dimorphic who are trying to mimick these stereotypical maximally dimorphic traits results in disaffected characters like Andrew Tate, over compensating with their cigar smoking, women chasing, MMA fighting, actively seeking recognition by the outside world that they are now "alpha" males etc, yet all the while simultaneously still exuding a sort of disaffected vibe not seen in those who are indigenously "alpha" males (i.e., maximally dimorphic).

 

[Mjäll]

Yeah, lets stay in the dark ages.


It's not about pleasing others. It's about developing, keeping and showing moral integrity, values and prosocial behaviours without neglecting yourself. Yes, obviously that's not as easy as just sticking with "traditional values". The world changes and people that still behave like ages ago are primitives. The world needs better men than what people like you represent. The ability to evolve, to adapt and to reflect is what makes us human.

Your kneejerk reaction, exaggerated assumption and immediate descent into unnecessary conflict is a perfect example of what a man shouldn't be.

Are you joking?