[MEGA] Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion - Take 4

[Help?!?!]

Some of these are so new they were just synthed, some may have IPUAC's but no wikis and such. I'm no expert but I do know my pharmacology, so I can somewhat tell by structure(that and based on my previous experiences with most known noids in existence.) how one could potentially react. You bring up a good point with FAAH inhibitors, but MAO-B. Show me a noid with that potential and I'll believe it! Stuff like that is treading on some dangerous terrority!

Oh and about the 018 I wasn't....per say the first to try it but....

Either way especially at that time Huffman had his documents on the competely wide open before he blew his lid and went all, "These are medical tools not some childs play thing!", banannasnon the public!

 

[crOOk]

I for one would rather see a IUPAC or structural formual on any of these new one over all this talk

Lol nobody is gonna use IUPAC names here. It just won't happen.

Other than that I wholeheartedly agree, I've been very concerned about some of the names recently introduced. How many compounds have been outlawed in the past 5 years? Hundred? This is gonna get so much worse. That's why some sort of uniform naming conventions would be great. Imho if anyone could pull that off that it's bluelight.
The old terms won't even have to be abolished, but it'd be great to have a thread which lists...
- common trivial names
- IUPAC (maybe even a CAS no. on top of that)
- structure
- maybe a link to the respective Big and Dandy or external links to erowid, wiki, etc.
- probably even some warnings what other substances might currently be passed off as the respective substance

Yeah, that'd be a very good contribution to our purpose.

Some of these are so new they were just synthed, some may have IPUAC's

All chemicals have IUPAC names. It's a naming convention.

You bring up a good point with FAAH inhibitors, but MAO-B.

I don't think he's saying introduction of such unselective substances would be a good idea. I understood the most novel cannabinoids are problematic for their ability to effect proteins that are not merely influencing cannabinoidergic neurons. I could see this being a big issue because people who are less knowledgable, posing the vast majority of users, are going to treat them like any other synthetic cannabinoid which the respective chemical was probably advertised as. If any of these last generation synthetic cannbinoids actually does signifcantly inhibit MAO-B, that could be dangerous when it comes to drug cocktails, while FAAH sounds like a good thing to me in terms of efficacy.

 

[jeremysdemo]

Some of these are so new they were just synthed, some may have IPUAC's but no wikis and such. I'm no expert but I do know my pharmacology, so I can somewhat tell by structure(that and based on my previous experiences with most known noids in existence.) how one could potentially react. You bring up a good point with FAAH inhibitors, but MAO-B. Show me a noid with that potential and I'll believe it! Stuff like that is treading on some dangerous terrority!

the problem, as I am sure you are aware of, is instead of companies like Abbott, Pfizer and Bayer corp, inventing new structures with potential for pain killing and other medicinal benefits as it was in the industries infancy these labs are making designations for the soul purpose of skirting laws.
Here is a IUPAC for an MOA inhibitor:

N-(3,4-dichlorophenyl)-1-methyl-1H-indazole-5-carboxamide PubMed article

Now here is the MAB-CHonga we were discussing.

N-​(1-​amino-​3,​3-​dimethyl-​1-​oxobutan-​2-​yl)-​1-​(cyclohexylmethyl)-​1H-​indazole-​3-​carboxamide

granted these are nothing alike besides their indazole cores and carboxiamides, the article raised some concerns for me, with these newer ones coming out and our current knowledge of MOA inhibitors and their effects.

I've already noticed one carbox last year out of Germany with 4-dichlorophenyl, it even had a tail on it that is patented as a hepatitis treatment, so who knows what that ones is going to do. sure it will "fuck you up" if that is the goal, to just send you bodies regulatory systems into a chemical tailspin, not my idea of a good time.

Then we get to the issue of poor manufacturing techniques, as there is virtually no regulation in the industry (I tried people, but they just wouldn't have it) so we have things like Fluoridated tails not binding and even chained fluoro byproducts being left in the product which poses the unique threat of hypothalamus toxicity.
when poor manufacturing techniques and lack of regulation or third party testing (at least in the US) is common place there is no guarantee what you are getting is what the literature defines, if your product is full of precursors, some of which have their own effects, and byproducts it can be very detrimental to ones health, IMHO.

 

[Help?!?!]

Oh defintely I agree on many parts especially the last one! That's why I was so gutted when my all time, one of the highest rated vendors in existence stopped shipping to the US! They had FUBINACA down pa. Seriously 99% pure stuff. Left no residue in the pipe and got you high as fuck!

I think I know the one your talkingbabout! Crazy stuff! Were you ever lucky enough to try WIN-55,212-2.!Awesome noid, felt just like pot and www water souble so you could insufflate it!

These are totally new self desinged noids they have no IPUAC yet as their not even recognized he. I did it last night but was to fucked left the page and lost the whole post.Ill give you their chemical write out later!

 

[jeremysdemo]

Oh defintely I agree on many parts especially the last one! That's why I was so gutted when my all time, one of the highest rated vendors in existence stopped shipping to the US! They had FUBINACA down pa. Seriously 99% pure stuff. Left no residue in the pipe and got you high as fuck!

I think I know the one your talkingbabout! Crazy stuff! Were you ever lucky enough to try WIN-55,212-2.!Awesome noid, felt just like pot and www water souble so you could insufflate it!

These are totally new self desinged noids they have no IPUAC yet as their not even recognized he. I did it last night but was to fucked left the page and lost the whole post.Ill give you their chemical write out later!

YEp the wins were taken off track pretty early on, but structurally one of the closer ones to the real deal, now Abbott laboratories got pretty close with a few of theirs too....but they are fucking unicorns my man, have had 5 different samples all claimed to be the ever illusive A's but all came back as something else...

the AZ037 has some potential for danger, has both even and odd chained fluoros...recipe for a manufacturing disaster IMHO.
it' like a lesser effective form of SR141716A, same pyrazole core and carboxamide like most carboxes sure to be a sleep aid with little uplifting potential.

this looks like something they would put in a tumbler (pyrazole-3-carboxamide) to get all the odd and even flouride sludge out of it...IMHO. probably works too.

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

Does the abchiminica have maoi activity (or theoretically likely to have it based on structure)?

 

[jeremysdemo]

Does the abchiminica have maoi activity (or theoretically likely to have it based on structure)?

it shares some qualities to a FAAH inhibitor KDS-4103, both share cyclohexyl with one being carbamate and the other ​carboxamide. search pub med for more comparisons.

but I will say this, such little is known about these newer compounds and how they metabolize, so piecing together information based on past studies is often difficult unless you have a membership to specific databases where the clinical information is stored.

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

Well that's not good to hear, I'm thinking I should just toss this stuff while I have the thought and forget about synth noids... and really the natural ones too

 

[treezy z]

If ab-chmnica was an maoi I'd be dead based on what I've mixed with it.

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

Definitely puts me off.... good post, reason I haven't touched it in days and don't really intend to.


treezy z... you'd be surprised what the body can handle and it still be a fucking MAOI, or at least fuck with that MAoxydase.... honestly unless you're deep into the shit why risk it? Actually if you're deep into it a even better reason to say fuck that...

 

[hypereall]

Some interesting reading on the MAOI effects, I am thinking though that this may not be totally accurate as I would regard that dangerous interactions would have wiped out half the members here and there!
So what you guys are trolling cru members? good way to harm the scene, good to see Jd fighting on the front lines again though!

/respect due

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

Yup cause harm reduction means "it would have killed half the members here, but I *assume* they're safe so that rules that out!"

Except:
1. This isn't used by even close to half the members here, if even a couple of percentage points though I highly doubt it (nor will it likely be in the future due to it's emergency scheduled status).
2. You don't know if anyone was harmed or killed by it, and if they were the actual cause of damage. You also don't have anything firmly saying it is safe or studying it's safety in humans or any animals and/or mammals.
3. No one said definitevly that it had MAOI activity.
4. I merely said I personally would say screw it until more is known.

Believe you're stuck in a logical fallacy. Not like this forum is for discussion about possible interactions and minimizing danger or anything, always best to wait until something serious happens to large groups of people before being cautious. And I'm sure such comments are seriously "harming the scene" due to some musings about possible MAOI activity. You say it's interesting, then disagree, then accuse people of trolling? WTF....? Maybe you've harmed your brain? Maybe you're a vendor trying to push it on people and you swing by just to back it up? Who the fuck knows.

 

[hypereall]

Yup cause harm reduction means "it would have killed half the members here, but I *assume* they're safe so that rules that out!"

Except:
1. This isn't used by even close to half the members here, if even a couple of percentage points though I highly doubt it (nor will it likely be in the future due to it's emergency scheduled status).
2. You don't know if anyone was harmed or killed by it, and if they were the actual cause of damage. You also don't have anything firmly saying it is safe or studying it's safety in humans or any animals and/or mammals.
3. No one said definitevly that it had MAOI activity.
4. I merely said I personally would say screw it until more is known.

Believe you're stuck in a logical fallacy. Not like this forum is for discussion about possible interactions and minimizing danger or anything, always best to wait until something serious happens to large groups of people before being cautious. And I'm sure such comments are seriously "harming the scene" due to some musings about possible MAOI activity. You say it's interesting, then disagree, then accuse people of trolling? WTF....? Maybe you've harmed your brain? Maybe you're a vendor trying to push it on people and you swing by just to back it up? Who the fuck knows.

Yea I guess that was a little frivolous on my part trolling the trolls, I wasn't specifically aiming that at you but at the other members passing off-topic comments

Indeed:

1. Your right it isn't used, it was used by the majority of spice smoking population which is even bigger than all of us.
2. The literature that is around clearly states the cause of the four associated deaths and no there is no information on it's safety in humans or it's safe study.
3. I didn't state definitively that it didn't, it was merely an observation, I apologize for making assumptions
4. Personally I would say the same but no more will be known now....

I have been here for a while I just swing back to keep updated, maybe I harmed your sensibilities by being here in the first place but that's on you

 

[jeremysdemo]

Some interesting reading on the MAOI effects, I am thinking though that this may not be totally accurate as I would regard that dangerous interactions would have wiped out half the members here and there!
So what you guys are trolling cru members? good way to harm the scene, good to see Jd fighting on the front lines again though!

/respect due

the ER and morgue reports on CHIM are well documented across the US, so much so they were able to ban it only 6 months after it hit the states.

we still don't know how it killed people or made them ill, what the mechanism was if it was dose related, impurities, MOA related, etc.

all we can do is speculate based on it's chemistry, but the statistics are pretty convincing to me at least that it is not a safe research product.

 

[jeremysdemo]

I believe it is a forum on which you used to be a moderator but were banned for good reason. I hope people here don't take your word for gospel as you are a danger to your surroundings.
Bar the rotten apple, at least most of CRU has the decency to to refrain from using childish remarks and uphold some respect for other people's opinions and forums. Which is more than can be said about your fake authoritative and condescending 2-faced personality.

you clearly take everything you read as gospel.

I am afraid I can't help people like you.

carry on! %)

 

[Noids]

what the mechanism was if it was dose related, impurities, MOA related, etc.

Jdemo, the great expert know-it-all and his MOA lol.
You do nothing but bring harm upon people with your bogus advice and phony expertise!
Please read a book or get a job or something. Or go play with your MOA.

 

[jeremysdemo]

then please explain to the board how getting people to send their products in for testing to a US lab caused anyone harm.

since you know more than anyone here, clearly do tell.

*guys I am not trying to feed the trolls, just pointing out the obvious flaws in their logic. %)

 

[jeremysdemo]

Yup cause harm reduction means "it would have killed half the members here, but I *assume* they're safe so that rules that out!"

2. You don't know if anyone was harmed or killed by it, and if they were the actual cause of damage. You also don't have anything firmly saying it is safe or studying it's safety in humans or any animals and/or mammals.

if I may add to point 2,

first we have to get into how noids are emergency scheduled in the US and unwrap that turban,

in order to satisfy the conditions of 21 CFR Part 1308 of the CSA imminent hazard to the public safety must be demonstrated. which it was done rather quickly with chimmychonga, all one has to do is read the notice of intent posted to the public register on my US cannabinoid Law page here, the deaths, hospital reports used for to satisfy the criteria are there.

as compared to one of the other ones banned this year (AB-Pinaca) which was sold in the US for 3 years before reaching emerg status, missing quite a few emerg bans.

One thing we know by the binding studies is AB-pinaca has a much lower affinity then the chonga does, Chimmychonga having a 10x greater affinity then JWH018.
bottom line was it took them a lot longer to establish the criteria for AB-pin to be emergency banned, which statistically gives us a hint it is a less dangerous product.
We used to call it water, because compared to others it was that weak, but still people may gave abused it enough to cause damage that got documented, hence the ban.

the other contributing factor is lack of US testing of these products, for all we know the ABpinaca by itself is harmless but could have had impurities in it that lead to death or illnesses, when they do a toxicology of course they find the ABpinaca in the system (and some unknown impurity) and attribute it to the Pinaca.

lab testing is a no brainer for most people and vendors in the US scene, however there are certain groups of people who for whatever paranoids delusional reasons are against it, such people contribute to the deaths and to the bans and eventually to more dangerous substances coming out to replace the safer ones, IMHO.

there is a lab the vendors I use have their products sent to for testing here in the US it is funded by donations from Erowid and dancesafe and is very affordable for anyone.

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

FWIW #2 was meant as a reason to PRESUME that it is harmful, not that it should be taken as a harmless substance.

 

[jeremysdemo]

FWIW #2 was meant as a reason to PRESUME that it is harmful, not that it should be taken as a harmless substance.

understood broham,

I believe I added substantially to that notion with citations and hopefully hyper is well educated to the dangers involved with it at this point.

we should never presume anything is harmless, too much icecream a day can cause a person with the disposition for it diabetes,

the body is a complex system that requires constant regulation, the use of synth cannabinoids can easily disrupt the normal regulatory processes with potentially severe consistences. Education is the key tho, knowing the antidotes to OD like CBD and Rimonabant and other inverse agonist and CB1 antagonist can prevent and in some cases reverse damages that could be caused to internal organs, the brain, nervous system and body due to seizures.

I've been saying this since MEGA Synth 2, this shit needs to be respected.