pharmakos
Bluelighter
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CD Moderators: someguyontheinternet
[MEGA] Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion - Take 4
- Thread starter bongbongbong
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foolsgold
Bluelighter
right im back on the noids got a sample of this one coming FUB-PB22 anyone tried it yet ?
mydrugbuddy
Bluelighter
Anyone noticed that synthetic noids appear to loose their potency over time ?
This isnt a tolerance issue, i made a batch about 6 months ago that almost get me tripping it was so strong, now i need several bongsfull just to start to feel a slight fuzzyness. I used am2233 and am1220. I think from now on im just gonna make smaller batches every time as these seem to retain their freshness an potency. It seems to me that the cannabinoids and herbs turn to some kind of inert dust. I could be wrong. Any opinions ?
This isnt a tolerance issue, i made a batch about 6 months ago that almost get me tripping it was so strong, now i need several bongsfull just to start to feel a slight fuzzyness. I used am2233 and am1220. I think from now on im just gonna make smaller batches every time as these seem to retain their freshness an potency. It seems to me that the cannabinoids and herbs turn to some kind of inert dust. I could be wrong. Any opinions ?
AromaticNitrogen
Bluelighter
After a good deal of lurking I would like to take the time to comment on a novel cannabomimetic that has little, if any, data available on the web. BB-22 aka QUCHIC.
Upon visiting a place, I noticed "aromatic incense" for sale. After the new control status of most synthetics, I asked if the staff knew the makeup of the product. I was offered a lab report ruling out 20+ compounds and identifying only BB-22 as present in the product. After realizing the lack of data on this compound, I decided to make a careful guinea pig of myself.
The structure of BB-22 is similar to that of JWH-018 with two differences:
1- substitution of a methylcyclohexyl group on the tryptamine nitrogen
And
2- substitution of an 8-hydroxyquinoline group in place of the naphthalene group of the carboxyl bridge.
Dosage and effects:
Doses were investigated via addition if plant matter to the end of a cigarette.
Repeated dosages have proven BB-22 to be exceedingly potent. 1st dose consisted of approximately 20mg of plant material and produced very marked cannabis-like effects including hunger, xerostomia, and hypertension.
In order to further investigate higher dosage, 2nd dose was increased to ~30mg of plant matter, ingested in the same manner. This dose resulted in the same somatic effects as described above, with the addition of tachycardia, 150bpm, and marked psychological disturbances. At this point it should be noted that I am an experienced cannabis user.
This dose resulted in an unshakable feeling of anxiety and dread. Consciously controlling breathing helped to quell this feeling slightly. This anxiety/paranoia is unlike anything I've experienced in my life, having a very seasoned record of polysubstance abuse. It was, at times, very difficult to keep under control. It evolved to become increasingly unsettling throughout the experience.
Conclusion:
It should be noted that the effects take approximately 5 minutes to peak, so overdose with this substance seems plausible without careful dosing intervals.
Although no quantitative analysis was included in the above mentioned report, the low dose of raw plant material suggest the probability of this substance being active in the microgram range.
Further, hydrolysis of the 8-hydroxyquinoline ester bridge could very well result in in-vivo production if 8-hydroxyquinoline, which itself acts as a potent transcription inhibitor via chelation of divalent cations required for polymerase enzymes.
This new breed of synthetics are novel, and very untested in terms of potency and safety. Should one feel the need to try their luck with these compounds, dose very low until effects are understood. And most importantly, keep in mind the cytotoxic effects that could arise from repeated exposure.
Ps. Product purchased in the US.
Upon visiting a place, I noticed "aromatic incense" for sale. After the new control status of most synthetics, I asked if the staff knew the makeup of the product. I was offered a lab report ruling out 20+ compounds and identifying only BB-22 as present in the product. After realizing the lack of data on this compound, I decided to make a careful guinea pig of myself.
The structure of BB-22 is similar to that of JWH-018 with two differences:
1- substitution of a methylcyclohexyl group on the tryptamine nitrogen
And
2- substitution of an 8-hydroxyquinoline group in place of the naphthalene group of the carboxyl bridge.
Dosage and effects:
Doses were investigated via addition if plant matter to the end of a cigarette.
Repeated dosages have proven BB-22 to be exceedingly potent. 1st dose consisted of approximately 20mg of plant material and produced very marked cannabis-like effects including hunger, xerostomia, and hypertension.
In order to further investigate higher dosage, 2nd dose was increased to ~30mg of plant matter, ingested in the same manner. This dose resulted in the same somatic effects as described above, with the addition of tachycardia, 150bpm, and marked psychological disturbances. At this point it should be noted that I am an experienced cannabis user.
This dose resulted in an unshakable feeling of anxiety and dread. Consciously controlling breathing helped to quell this feeling slightly. This anxiety/paranoia is unlike anything I've experienced in my life, having a very seasoned record of polysubstance abuse. It was, at times, very difficult to keep under control. It evolved to become increasingly unsettling throughout the experience.
Conclusion:
It should be noted that the effects take approximately 5 minutes to peak, so overdose with this substance seems plausible without careful dosing intervals.
Although no quantitative analysis was included in the above mentioned report, the low dose of raw plant material suggest the probability of this substance being active in the microgram range.
Further, hydrolysis of the 8-hydroxyquinoline ester bridge could very well result in in-vivo production if 8-hydroxyquinoline, which itself acts as a potent transcription inhibitor via chelation of divalent cations required for polymerase enzymes.
This new breed of synthetics are novel, and very untested in terms of potency and safety. Should one feel the need to try their luck with these compounds, dose very low until effects are understood. And most importantly, keep in mind the cytotoxic effects that could arise from repeated exposure.
Ps. Product purchased in the US.
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MMMMKAY?!
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2010
- Messages
- 489
Which synthetic cannaboid (if any) is the least harmful?
Out of curiosity, if anyone has any idea of which synthetic cannaboid is the least harmful I would like to hear what you have to say [:
I know that generally synthetic cannaboids are nasty on the brain. I was at a rehab once and saw 2 kids that were permanently effed up from "spice"
They were basically retarted.
Here is a list of synthetic cannaboids:
5F-AKB48
5F-PB22
AKB48
AM-2201
AM-2233
EAM-2201
JWH-122
JWH-210
MAM-2201
STS-135
UR-144
XLR-11
Out of curiosity, if anyone has any idea of which synthetic cannaboid is the least harmful I would like to hear what you have to say [:
I know that generally synthetic cannaboids are nasty on the brain. I was at a rehab once and saw 2 kids that were permanently effed up from "spice"
They were basically retarted.
Here is a list of synthetic cannaboids:
5F-AKB48
5F-PB22
AKB48
AM-2201
AM-2233
EAM-2201
JWH-122
JWH-210
MAM-2201
STS-135
UR-144
XLR-11
transending
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2013
- Messages
- 44
these cannabiniods have effects that vary extreme from user to user for example once I smoked 3 bowels of "spice" with jwh 122 in it with no effects. I once took one hit of an am22 product and it make me almost psychotic.
in my opinion out of all those the jwh have had less abnormal responces
in my opinion out of all those the jwh have had less abnormal responces
Seyer
Bluelight Crew
Merged.
bloodshed344
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 9, 2012
- Messages
- 1,576
I would guess that cannabinoids cause their brain toxicity by overexcitation of neurons. The reason some people get extreme brain damage is they get so much of the cannabinoid at once that it causes a much higher activity in the body than it does in a normal dose, causing the regular seizing and overheating that leads to kidney failure and brain damage. The easiest way to know which are the most dangerous would probably be ki numbers and IA numbers. I would think a cannabinoid with 100% IA is definitely going to cause toxicity in an "effective" dose.
Now, I might be wrong about all that.
pharmakos
Bluelighter
^^ STS-135
the adamantane group (spiky bit at the top of the image) could potentially cleave off and form the chemical Amantadine:
from the Wikipedia article on Amantadine:
each 1gram of STS-135 could potentially equal up to 400mg of Amantadine consumed.
2NE1 / AKB-48 / 5F-AKB-48 could all also potentially partially degrade/metabolize into Amantadine.
IDK if this is any better or worse than any of the other potential byproducts from this latest generation of cannabinoids...
there's a lot of cannabinoids on the market today that use this functional group
bloodshed344
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 9, 2012
- Messages
- 1,576
Doesn't seem like the worst metabolite in the world.
^^ STS-135
the adamantane group (spiky bit at the top of the image) could potentially cleave off and form the chemical Amantadine:
from the Wikipedia article on Amantadine:
each 1gram of STS-135 could potentially equal up to 400mg of Amantadine consumed.
2NE1 / AKB-48 / 5F-AKB-48 could all also potentially partially degrade/metabolize into Amantadine.
IDK if this is any better or worse than any of the other potential byproducts from this latest generation of cannabinoids...
there's a lot of cannabinoids on the market today that use this functional group
pharmakos
Bluelighter
yeah, i really don't know. it definitely has the potential to have more mental side-effects than other metabolites, though -- i mean, the stuff is Alzheimer's medication.
mydrugbuddy
Bluelighter
moderation seems to be the key, overconsumption seems very risky in terms of your mental health. Ive been occasionally using low doses of mam2201, am2233, ur144, and am1220. I have not noticed any problems from this. From all the trip reports users seemed to be recommending these ones as the least anxiety provoking and most chilled of the noids. That is definately what im looking for.
Spice itselkf was fuckin mad scary shit. It was way too strong. All those kids that wouldnt have had a clue. FFS. I think i had the packet about 5 years before i finished it, it seemed to have lost it potency by then and was just working as sedative to help send me to sleep.
AM2201 is the one to avoid IMO, its mad strong, i dont know anything about the others youve mentioned. I stopped bothrting to keep up to date after the 2nd generation got banned. There were some good ones in the 2nd generation.
Is it just me or do these very rarely produce the euphoria you would get like when you first startyed weed or hash ?
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pharmakos
Bluelighter
AM-2201 was great if you hit that sweet spot. it was way too easy to miss that spot, though, and either barely feel anything.... or go on a rocket ride of anxiety and paranoia.
mydrugbuddy
Bluelighter
at first go i massivelly overdid spice and was in a horrible paranoid headspace for about 8 hours. I thought i was being sensible with 'just a pinch'. Wrong !!!
Thereafter i treated it with much caution, literally only adding 3 grains of it to a single skinner rizla was enough. Ridiculously strong stuff. I dunno if my bag was a particular hot spot of a dosing error by the vendor, but it was crazily strong.
Thereafter i treated it with much caution, literally only adding 3 grains of it to a single skinner rizla was enough. Ridiculously strong stuff. I dunno if my bag was a particular hot spot of a dosing error by the vendor, but it was crazily strong.
The Network
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2010
- Messages
- 1,970
What synths are popular currently (haven't stayed with the culture for years) and what's the general consensus on safety and quality compared to the good old JWH series?
lyrae
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2013
- Messages
- 28
I can only speak for my country (sweden) but here it was 5F-AKB48 during the summer and now in the fall we've had a shift towards AB-FUBINACA. The 5F-AKB48 has been widely reported as causing stomach troubles and hospitalizations after cold-turkey quits (after several grams a week-dosages). AB-FUBINACA hasnt had the same reports of actual "damage" but if youre hooked you will suffer from the good old wake up in the middle of the night with enormous cravings. Both seem to cause physical dependence in some way.
However, ive smoked both in more "sane" doses, and i didnt feel any side effects (aside from racing hart, but thats standard).
5F-AKB48 was a more edgy and stimmy compound, while AB-FUBINACA was more slow and mellow, somewhat "dark" maybe. Ive also smoked (in recent days) PB-22 which was pretty similar to 5F-AKB48, and 5F-AB-PINACA which i liked - also an upper like 5F-AKB48 but a little bit more easy high to be in.
(please note that i smoke maybe a joint a week with 1:35 ratio blends ive made myself. in stronger doses/binges/whatevs they may behave very different!)
The Network
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2010
- Messages
- 1,970
Sounds like it wouldn't be much like the classic JWH series that were most common a few years ago (-018 and -073, made a perfect mix).
Guess I'll have to stick to real bud.
Guess I'll have to stick to real bud.
the toad
Bluelighter
Idk what was in the mixes i was buying in california last year but i had withdrawal symptoms similar to that... As bad as cold turkey high dose opiates for me... Like out of commission for about a week and a month before regular weed works proper again...
I was smoking at least an eighth (3.5g) of the blends a day... Often 2 or 3 of them per 24 hours...
I became really concerned when id wake up every 2 hours during the nite to puke blood and smoke more... Luckily this stopped within a couple days of cessation...
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pharmakos
Bluelighter
the gram of EAM-2201 that i bought in July is finally gone
i got high several times a day since July, and no withdrawal symptoms now
idk how some of you guys manage to smoke so much!
i got high several times a day since July, and no withdrawal symptoms now
idk how some of you guys manage to smoke so much!