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[MEGA] Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion - Take 3

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Ok, so it's been some time (about a week or so) since I commenced my abstinence of cannabinoids and weed. I feel great! The feeling of pride that I've overcome my addiction is very good, better than the feeling I got from the drugs themselves. My addiction came out of nowhere. I went from being a casual smoker to a daily smoker over the course of just weeks, and the resulting addiction would have caused some major problems if I had not admitted to myself that I was actually addicted.

Having said that, I will smoke cannabinoids and weed again. I'm being realistic here. I will, however, put extremely strict limits on how much and how often I have them. Wish me luck!

If anyone wants to talk to me about not letting cannabinoids/weed get the better of you, then I'm happy to talk. If anyone has advice for me too that would be great.
 
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any one had respiratory trouble with noids does not matter which one i find i end up shallow breathing when sleeping all most to the point of what happens in a heroin od and all so when i first wake its damn scary
 
Tonight has been eventful and extremely stressful. Oh how I'd love some MAM right now. Coming to think of it, MAM-2201 was the only cannabinoid I really enjoyed. AM-2201 is madness, UR-144 is too sedating, AKB-48 upset my stomach (other than that it was actually pretty good), 5F-AKB-48 was downright no fun at all. 5F-UR-144 is next on the to-do list.
 
^Unusual that you did not enjoy 5F-AKB48, it's one of my absolute favorites. I don't recommend 5F-UR144, especially if you didn't like original UR-144. It feels like all of AM-2201's bad sides, with less in the actual good effects department.

AM-2201 can be easy to over do, and unpleasant when this happens, but if you dose right, AM-2201 can get you very lifted. 5F-UR144 is the same way, hyper potent, super easy to get "the fear", but even if you dose into the sweet spot the whole experience feels like a 15 minute roller coaster. Very short either way.

@goolsgold: CB-13 sucks, except as a pain reliever. Incredible amounts can be used, and you'll never really "get there". Apparently it has a lot of trouble crossing the blood brain barrier.
 
Don't get me wrong, AM-2201 was fun! Not over long periods of use, though. haha imagine smoking salvia daily! I know AM isn't as weird but the same principle applies. ;)
 
David the Chansey said:
Synthetic doesn't imply dangerous, and natural doesn't imply safe. Many plants are toxic to humans, and we are heavily dependent on synthetic drugs to survive, some of which are relatively danger-free.

Unknown danger does not imply greater danger. We should be cautious that not much is known about these chemicals, but we shouldn't be overly scared that we don't know much about these chemicals. I don't know if someone is going to try to kill me tomorrow or not; should I be scared? This situation is extreme, but it's to show the point that we have to be rational with what we should be scared of. I just feel some people are too quick to jump on the we-know-nothing-about-these-chemicals-therefore-they-are-dangerous bandwagon.

If one really thinks that these are likely to cause harm, then that's ok. For me personally, I'm willing to take the risk. I'm also willing to accept the possible consequences in later life (or even immediate life, at that matter). It's similar to the idea that if you are willing to argue, then you have to be equally willing to admit when you are wrong, and apologise.

Edit: also, I don't see why some people use the argument that "weed is safer because it is a beautiful blend of hundreds of cannabinoids." Beautiful, you say? I say chaotic. Any chef would say so, too. With so many different cannabinoids, it's more likely that weed will contain some that are dangerous.
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You're right about all of that except the diss to weed. It is safer than all known synth cannabinoids that actually get you high. No argument to make at all here.

For an example, the reverse isomer of THC is an intense dissociative, not a cannabinoid. This reverse isomer doesnt happen naturally and can only be produced synthetically. Many synthetic cannabinoids affect the NMDA receptor even if the binding affinity is small. This causes some of the unpleasant and "trippy" effects as well as the unknown effects on the 5HT system (cannabinoids in weed only hit 5HT1A, who knows what synths hit). Point is cannabinoids in weed are almost pure cannabinoids and this is proven, synthetic "cannabinoids" can hit a wide range of receptors and are inherently more dangerous because they do this and the danger isnt known or even studied. Im not disputing that there may be one or more synthetic cannabinoids that are safer/healthier than cannabis but I really doubt it. Saying weed is less safe than synth cannabinoids is a downright lie!

I do realize that natural/synthetic is a false dichotomy, completely useless, like white/black in the case of segregation. False dichotomy.

and also its not similar to arguing, because arguing can ruin your social life, and ODing on drugs can just kill you. It might be the same to a drama queen but it's not to anyone that gives a fuck about life. lol.
 
I have a small concern, and I hope somebody will know something about it. Very briefly:

-I smoked an overdose of AM-2201. It was the first time smoking cannabinoid.
-Effects were very, very unpleasant. Not normal at all.
-I had a break of about 4 months. Not smoking weed nor cannabinoids
-I smoked weed after the break and the effects were the same as AM-2201 overdose, only the effects lasted longer.

More detailed version.
I had smoked weed two times before trying AM-2201. First time smoking weed wasn't that good, no effects at all. Second time I had a pleasant experience and I really liked it.
About two months passed and I didn't smoke weed. Then I was introduced to AM-2201 and decided to give it a try. Friend of mine eyeballed the dose for me since he had been smoking it before. I have no idea how much there was. I smoked it from a bong (with wild dagga). I now try to explain the effects the best I can. I haven't seen anything like this on the Internet though I have tried to search...

After smoking it only took a few minutes until I started to see red balls going around in some kind of circular manner. My vision was otherwise clear. Then few minutes passed and the movements of the balls became larger and I lost my coordination and couldn't walk anymore on my own.
After some time the red balls associated with body movements. The best way I could describe this was that I could see the messages in the nerves going from brain to muscles. There was some movements that kept repeating, like me turning my hands. I didn't do them physically or think of them, but I could recognize (and feel) it from the red balls. (I'm sorry I can't describe the effects any better. In english at least.)
I couldn't focus on reality, eg. It took me hell a lot of effort to complete one sentence in to making any sense. I could focus like 2 seconds at a time and I was back at the red ball rally. Overall the experience felt highly chemical and unnatural. Not pleasant at any level. Mostly I was just trying to survive because I was terrified.

After the experience with AM-2201 I had a 4 month break from marijuana and cannabinoids. Then one night we had MDMA. Everything went fine and after three hours of taking MDMA, I smoked two hits of marijuana from a bong. Then I went to watch TV with my friends. Five minutes passed and the heads of the TV characters started to turn red. After that everything went pretty much the same way than the AM-2201. However, this time the effects lasted longer. Also, this time my sight seemed like a pixelized screen and these pixels turned red. Plus this time I had dyskinesia (turning my wrist left and right, something with my leg that I can't remember. I couldn't control these at all. Well maybe stop for a second.)

My question is, will I ever be able to smoke weed again? Because with those effects I won't go anywhere near it. I'm mentally prepared to never smoke again, but it would give me a peace of mind if I knew what's going on.
 
how much did you smoke? if you don't have a tolerance and its potent weed you only really need a hit or two.

edit -- nevermind, didn't read far enough

try just one hit if you smoke again =p

and bongs make everything more intense
 
bloodshed344 said:
You're right about all of that except the diss to weed. It is safer than all known synth cannabinoids that actually get you high. No argument to make at all here.

For an example, the reverse isomer of THC is an intense dissociative, not a cannabinoid. This reverse isomer doesnt happen naturally and can only be produced synthetically. Many synthetic cannabinoids affect the NMDA receptor even if the binding affinity is small. This causes some of the unpleasant and "trippy" effects as well as the unknown effects on the 5HT system (cannabinoids in weed only hit 5HT1A, who knows what synths hit). Point is cannabinoids in weed are almost pure cannabinoids and this is proven, synthetic "cannabinoids" can hit a wide range of receptors and are inherently more dangerous because they do this and the danger isnt known or even studied. Im not disputing that there may be one or more synthetic cannabinoids that are safer/healthier than cannabis but I really doubt it. Saying weed is less safe than synth cannabinoids is a downright lie!

I do realize that natural/synthetic is a false dichotomy, completely useless, like white/black in the case of segregation. False dichotomy.

and also its not similar to arguing, because arguing can ruin your social life, and ODing on drugs can just kill you. It might be the same to a drama queen but it's not to anyone that gives a fuck about life. lol.
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^ Total BULLSHIT.

1. The 'reverse isomer' of THC is a dissociative? You have refs to back that up, because to the best of my knowledge the only cannabinoid that has significant and distinct differences in pharmacological effects between isomers is HU-210\HU-211, which has some striking changes compared to THC.

2. "Many synthetic cannabinoids affect the NMDA receptor" where the FUCK are you getting this information?

3. "Synthetic cannabinoids affect....the 5HT system" AGAIN...TOTAL SPECULATION.

4. The only true thing in your ENTIRE post is that synthetic cannabinoids are less studied than the 'noids in marijuana, which kind of contradicts all of your fabricated info anyway.

You can't just represent your opinions as facts, man, that's fucked up, especially for someone calling other people "liar".

By the way, since smoking marijuana involves combusting material with an open flame, and inhaling tar, it is very easily considered that synthetics are safer than marijuana when used responsibly(unless you are vaping or eating your weed, then you break even).
 
bloodshed344 said:
It is safer than all known synth cannabinoids that actually get you high. No argument to make at all here.
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How can you say that when the safety of neither weed nor synthetic cannabinoids has been sufficiently studied? I'd say every argument can be made.

bloodshed344 said:
Saying weed is less safe than synth cannabinoids is a downright lie!
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Please would you quote where I said this. Also note my use of the word "likely".

bloodshed344 said:
and also its not similar to arguing, because arguing can ruin your social life, and ODing on drugs can just kill you. It might be the same to a drama queen but it's not to anyone that gives a fuck about life. lol.
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To be honest, I'm not quite sure why I said that. But was it really worth objecting? It was a thought I had at the time that imo was worth sharing.

To recap what I said earlier, I was saying that just because weed is natural and synthetic cannabinoids are, well, synthetic, it doesn't mean that weed is safe and synthetic cannabinoids are dangerous. Nowhere did I claim that weed is dangerous and synthetic cannabinoids are safe. What I did say, however, was that weed is more likely to be dangerous statistically because it is made up of hundreds of cannabinoids. I think this is a reasonable claim. Also remember that weed is made up of more things than cannabinoids, meaning the risk of weed containing a dangerous substance is even higher. And most people smoke it with tobacco anyway, which quite frankly is a massive LOL to the argument that smoking weed is safe.

I'm not dissing weed; I'm dissing other people dissing synthetics.

Finally, whether a cannabinoid is naturally occurring or synthetically made is completely irrelevant.
 
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up until a few years ago, the oldest person in the world was a lady in india that claimed she'd been smoking cannabis daily for almost her entire life. its only one case, sure, but still "wow" level haha. she did eventually die, but she was like 127 when she kicked the bucket...
 
thenightwatch said:
up until a few years ago, the oldest person in the world was a lady in india that claimed she'd been smoking cannabis daily for almost her entire life. its only one case, sure, but still "wow" level haha. she did eventually die, but she was like 127 when she kicked the bucket...
Click to expand...

It's impressive that she lived for so long, but one can't assume that it was the weed that caused this. Maybe she was extremely healthy but just so happened to smoke weed everyday. Who knows, maybe she could've lived for longer if she didn't smoke weed.

I fear that people actively search out positive stories about weed, and disregard negative stories. I'm sure I could find some horrific examples on google of how weed can ruin lives. We have to be balanced and unbiased.
 
Neodice said:
I have a small concern, and I hope somebody will know something about it. Very briefly:

-I smoked an overdose of AM-2201. It was the first time smoking cannabinoid.
-Effects were very, very unpleasant. Not normal at all.
-I had a break of about 4 months. Not smoking weed nor cannabinoids
-I smoked weed after the break and the effects were the same as AM-2201 overdose, only the effects lasted longer.

More detailed version.
I had smoked weed two times before trying AM-2201. First time smoking weed wasn't that good, no effects at all. Second time I had a pleasant experience and I really liked it.
About two months passed and I didn't smoke weed. Then I was introduced to AM-2201 and decided to give it a try. Friend of mine eyeballed the dose for me since he had been smoking it before. I have no idea how much there was. I smoked it from a bong (with wild dagga). I now try to explain the effects the best I can. I haven't seen anything like this on the Internet though I have tried to search...

After smoking it only took a few minutes until I started to see red balls going around in some kind of circular manner. My vision was otherwise clear. Then few minutes passed and the movements of the balls became larger and I lost my coordination and couldn't walk anymore on my own.
After some time the red balls associated with body movements. The best way I could describe this was that I could see the messages in the nerves going from brain to muscles. There was some movements that kept repeating, like me turning my hands. I didn't do them physically or think of them, but I could recognize (and feel) it from the red balls. (I'm sorry I can't describe the effects any better. In english at least.)
I couldn't focus on reality, eg. It took me hell a lot of effort to complete one sentence in to making any sense. I could focus like 2 seconds at a time and I was back at the red ball rally. Overall the experience felt highly chemical and unnatural. Not pleasant at any level. Mostly I was just trying to survive because I was terrified.

After the experience with AM-2201 I had a 4 month break from marijuana and cannabinoids. Then one night we had MDMA. Everything went fine and after three hours of taking MDMA, I smoked two hits of marijuana from a bong. Then I went to watch TV with my friends. Five minutes passed and the heads of the TV characters started to turn red. After that everything went pretty much the same way than the AM-2201. However, this time the effects lasted longer. Also, this time my sight seemed like a pixelized screen and these pixels turned red. Plus this time I had dyskinesia (turning my wrist left and right, something with my leg that I can't remember. I couldn't control these at all. Well maybe stop for a second.)

My question is, will I ever be able to smoke weed again? Because with those effects I won't go anywhere near it. I'm mentally prepared to never smoke again, but it would give me a peace of mind if I knew what's going on.
Click to expand...

I had the same problem for a while after having a bad experiance on a synthetic, the first time i smoked wed after that i had the same effects come back and last longer then they did, The good news though is just keep the smoking on weed light for a while and you will get back to a normal weed high. For me i only had the same feeling of the synth for about a month just remind yourself before smoking that its real weed not a synth and that it wont kill you or cause an OD. try to keep the thought of Synths out of your head while smoking weed.
 
I'd like to update my situation on quitting (rather, suspending my usage of) cannabinoids/cannabis.

The first few days were tough, especially because I was a daily smoker, but it got easier very quickly. In fact, I feel really good. Right now if I had weed I would enjoy it, but before, it was needed to keep me happy. Let's say I feel 80% happy right now (I'm just one of those people who are always happy): weed would boost that to 90%, but when I was dependent on cannabinoids/cannabis, I'd be 30% happy without it, and 60% happy with it. This is ridiculous! This is a classic example of something that was once enjoyable becoming something that is needed. When sufficiency becomes necessity. The worst part is that I couldn't even assess my own happiness because I was stoned all the time.

I hope to try weed again soon, as I feel I've learned a lot since quitting. Also, having a pastime really helps. I've recently bought some studio monitor speakers, and acquired Cubase 5.1. I'm currently educating myself on music theory before I learn how to use Cubase and make my own music. It's really enjoyable. Mountain biking is fantastic too. Even just going out at night on a walk taking photos is really enjoyable.

Cannabinoids/cannabis are like women in a sense (for us men, at least): I love women, but I don't let them take over my life. I'm not dissing weed - I love weed - but I hate how I became dependent on it. That's not to say it's addictive to everyone, but it certainly was to me.

Good luck, have fun!
 
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