[MEGA] God v.2

[L2R]

to which posts do you refer?

 

[TearItDown]

I've seen dozens upon dozens of posts in both the focus forums and in the drug discussion forums related to god and salvation because of god. I think it's out of place to cite specific examples.

 

[jpgrdnr]

Its interesting that in P and S we don't see much of that. In terms of dealing with addiction there is that "belief in a higher power" aspect. People in crisis tend to cling on to something that gives their life meaning. And probably people tend to take it too far...replacing their addiction. I wonder at the larger need for people not to identify with themselves but with something external, some sort of psychological defense? I mean the nature of addiction is based upon excuses at its root. So why not blame God and not the chemical need for stimulus? I think there is something innate about it, thoughts?

 

[alasdairm]

bluelight is a subset of the population of the world. around 80% of the population of the world believes in god in some form or another so why is it surprising that number is reflected in the number of bluelighters who believe in god?

alasdair

 

[jpgrdnr]

Are we talkng about people who found religion as a means of coping with addiction? Or are we talking about people who are just religious? There's a song by screeching weasel called "the Science of Myth" ...if religion gets you thru the dark times...what's wrong with that? Ill look up the line...

 

[Raw Evil]

Religion is best used as a collection of metaphors which, when understood as exactly that, can help us to understand, explain, and manipulate the world around us. Unfortunately, far too many fail to see the metaphor for what it is, and end up drawing the wrong conclusions from what could have been useful information.

 

[Sweet P]

Really? I've only seen one or two Bluelighters openly talk about their faith in god.

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

to which posts do you refer?

My thoughts exactly.

I've always been struck by how FEW folks around here give God the thumbs up. At one time, I could remember a post for a great number, probably more than half, of staff members, in which they made it clear they were atheist or agnostic. I would have to say that this site is all in all a tolerant one in most ways (which is why I love it), but I'll estimate that it's one that leans noticeably more anti-religion than pro, on the whole. We'll have more of an idea, though, after the Drugs and Spirituality survey runs.

As to your point about religion-as-practiced being harmful, I agree that a lot of people are mistaken, and followers of false prophets who are mistaken people themselves, as to what real spirituality is. Everybody yearns to find a fitting, proper, and indispensable place in the greater scheme of things. But what this yearning motivates you to do is up to you. Religion is exactly what we make it to be. The best way to disarm a hypocrite is to uphold the same values as he does, but actually practice them and stand up for them, using your head and heart in tandem.

 

[fastandbulbous]

Because religion fills the same sort of gap that drugs fill in many people's lives (hence the famous quote by Marx about it being the opium of the masses). Look at how many abstainance programs get god involved. All it's doing is replacing a reliance on one way of coping with life with another and allowing the person to dodge responsibility for certain actions

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

Because religion fills the same sort of gap that drugs fill in many people's lives (hence the famous quote by Marx about it being the opium of the masses). Look at how many abstainance programs get god involved. All it's doing is replacing a reliance on one way of coping with life with another and allowing the person to dodge responsibility for certain actions

I other words, both drug habits and religion lighten life's load? To some extent I agree, but I think beyond that basic similarity, the resemblance disappears fast.

I don't think 'dodging responsibility for certain actions' is fair to say at all, in the context of abstainers who become religious. On the contrary, I've found such people are looking to FACE, find redemption for, and be at peace with, the crappy ways they treated themselves and other people when they were in the throes of addiction.

Some of the times I've felt more 'fuck Bluelight' than ever have been when I've seen a recent former addict post about how his newfound faith has helped him get clean, only to be ridiculed -- not for being preachy and intolerant, but just for having the audacity to state without irony that he takes religion seriously. (I've even seen this go on in The Dark Side! ) I say if religion or spirituality is what WORKS for a person to stay sober, then we are betraying our community's mission of harm reduction by driving away people who've chosen God or Buddha and forsaken drugs. Sorry to go off topic, but this is one of those things that really chafes me something fierce.

I've do my part to make this a community you shouldn't need to be godless to feel comfortable participating in.

 

[Portillo]

Because bluelighters are smart open minded ppl. As opposed to the "the only thing that exists in the universe is earth and humans" mentality.

 

[Taryth]

If god will help someone conquer their addiction, or simply sustain them through rough periods, why resent it/him/her/the idea?

So long as those people don't foist their religion on me, I say cheer for them! God is an extremely powerful psychological tool, and I for one feel inclined not to deter those who would seek solace in god, but to support them in their endeavors. Happiness is rare, so why endanger it further?

But I think the OP was mainly referring to folks who do indeed foist their beliefs on others in a "preachy" manner. As to that, I must say there are very few on Bluelight, as have others.


I don't personally care for religion, but neither do I care for fish. Doesn't stop me from cooking fish for guests who enjoy fish.

 

[B9]

I've only noticed a few posters really proclaim region as being their saviour from drugs, most of us are kicking our heels in some form of purgatory or going full on through hell laughing maniacally as we do.

Bluelighter is just a religious stereotype.

I quite like fish myself.

I don't mind religious people so much though I'm averse to preachers, some religious based programmes suit some people trying to get clean from drugs for various reasons, probably mainly based upon the levels of social support. I'm not into even looking toward anything like AA/NA largely because I'm prejudiced against organised religious groups & I'd like to believe that I can control my drug use - this control is theoretical so far, however god loves a trier. Rightio I'll gird my loins & do battle with myself again.

 

[ASquishyApple]

Religion and spirituality are completely different though. I don't care much for organized religion. The scriptures used tend to be full of wisdom; however, religion tends to build walls and create barriers between people. The idea that my belief system is THE right one and anyone who believes differently is wrong and needs to believe what I believe has not been good for humanity. My biggest criticism with religion is that it often creates people who want to force their beliefs on others and it creates hypocrites who do not practice what they preach without acknowledging and admitting their own struggles with following whatever it is they are preaching.

Where many people differ, I believe, on the subject of God is what/who/where/when/why he is. I myself don't believe that God is some guy in the sky running the show, but I do believe there is a God. I have many beliefs about what identifies God that I'm not going to go into. Part of my belief in God is definitely a result of my failure to see any purpose to humanity as a whole and by extension each individual life without a God. My belief in God has prevented me from seriously pursuing suicide though I have contemplated it many times. We know so very little about what we are capable of observing in the universe that I believe it will be a long time before we are even close to proving or disproving the existence of a higher power.

I most easily see God's existence in "coincidences". Often times I ask myself what is the purpose to some seemingly random atrocity, annoyance, accident, or even act of love. After enough time, I am generally able to see the purpose behind what happened or at least see how it could serve a purpose past what I can observe in the universe. These sort of events can easily be dismissed as mere coincidences but as they start to happen frequently viewing all of them as random events becomes scientifically absurd. I believe God can most easily work through anything that involves randomness or chance. According to quantum physics and the multiverse theory, I am in the universe corresponding to the events I have observed merely by chance and that there are perhaps an infinite (or at least incredibly large) number of copies of myself in which every other possible outcome of every possible event is experienced. This theory best fits the current mathematical models; however, mathematics itself is a bit of an abstraction. Also, the models we have now are based only on what we currently know and could be completely wrong no matter how complete and true they may seem. The idea of a spherical planet was once an absurdity as well as the idea that the universe does not physically revolve around our planet. Even the idea of aether (or quintessence) from Aristotelian physics that was dismissed has some truth to it.

I'm not sure what posts you are referring to. At least from what I have read on bluelight, it seems that those who are atheist or agnostic are more apt to express their beliefs, forcefully, on bluelight. I also think that the kind of religious people who would openly and forcefully express their beliefs have never heard of bluelight as these people are far from the drug culture.

And again as others have said, whatever helps you successfully overcome your problems and addictions without causing more problems than what it was worth definitely has legitimacy.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

Because bluelighters are smart open minded ppl. As opposed to the "the only thing that exists in the universe is earth and humans" mentality.

Thank you. ^^

I believe in God because it's what I have faith in based on everything I have ever experienced in my life. I DO NOT have a religion or follow religion. Religion tries to define which can't really be defined. Spirituality is endless, constantly moving and growing, where as religion says "this is it. this is how it is".

I know my words will fall to deaf ears, but I just want to urge you all, don't put faith in god, put faith in yourself. In me, in your brothers and sisters, our mothers and fathers, in YOURSELF.

You just basically listed out all the things I think of as God. God is love. God is all of us together.

 

[higher than you]

Why do you care what people believe in, if we choose to follow the lord, thats what we want. Why do you think you have all the answers.

 

[Mjäll]

I guess some people don't feel comfortable trusting themselves fully. They can turn to a god instead. That's fine with me but giving the idea of god epistemic credit is counterproductive in every sense.

 

[Roger&Me]

Funny, I've always noticed the opposite. As a generalization, BLers seem to be dogmatically atheistic. At least that's what I've noticed.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

I guess some people don't feel comfortable trusting themselves fully. They can turn to a god instead. That's fine with me but giving the idea of god epistemic credit is counterproductive in every sense.

See, this is so wrong. I DO trust in myself fully. Which is why I DO have faith in my own spirituality and do not need a religion to connect to God.

 

[Damien]

Why do you care what people believe in, if we choose to follow the lord, thats what we want. Why do you think you have all the answers.

People need to understand that the way religion is practiced worldwide os detrimental to the advancement of humanity.

OP, I have not noticed the trend of which you speak.

Why should we put faith in anything though?