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[MEGA] God v.2

I think that is a great perspective....I dont limit myself to one tradition, but as I get older I am able to look back and see the good in the tradition I was raised in....I also see a lot of human ignorance...a lot of humans trying to mold God in their own image, as a racist homophobic woman hating war monger....which is exactly what the people who wrote some of these texts were....But then again, I find the occassional gem. Some writters of the book I seem to like more than others, and I do not believe they were all equally inspired....I think a lot of it is just fiction and parables, and much has been left out or lost in translation, and some of it was pretty ignorant to start with....but I blame humans for that.

The Book of Daniel has the humility and wisdom that is reminiscent of Jesus and New Testament teachings, but was actually an old Jewish prophet who predated him by hundreds or thousands of years....i forget which. Some of the OT with all the ritualism and animal sacrifice seems more like it was man made...like they were emulating Egyptian ritual magick and had it make it look cool like they were performing some kind of magic on a stage. The real stuff is the wisdom that brings your awareness to a higher place. The ritualism I can take or leave, and the prejudice I can definitely do without.

But whatever is out there, it hardly seems fair to end up hating our own spiritual roots just because zealots usurp the idea and turn it into a tool of oppression.


Belief is very personal though. I dont care what people believe as much as I care how they act towards me and each other....While I think its more than actions, or going through the material motions, I also dont think its as simple as choosing the right religion and saying some magic sentence with your mouth...maybe that works as an affirmation of intent, but if you stop there you pretty much dropped the ball....and if you dont look critically at the text or the establishment you may even be lead down the wrong path entirely.
 
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I think this topic deserves a mega thread, starting from the bottom of the archives. Stay tuned folks.
 
I actually find quite a few are atheistic, which is cool. Atheism for the win!
I have met lots of cool Christians, but quite a few of them seemed... really weird.
My thoughts on religion are simply "If your beliefs inform your actions, then to the best of your ability you would want your beliefs to be true". Quite a simple philosophy to understand, and it has many implications.
 
TearItDown said:
Faith is important because it helps us overcome challenges. Faith is the last ray of hope before we give in and are defeated. Faith shows confidence.
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If faith is such a virtue, then you should never doubt anyone or anything you are told, and you should give away all your money to the first con man who comes along.

DUP!

Clearly, the virtue is not in faith itself, but in the wise selection of where to put your faith. The creed of moderation in all things is a good idea here. Faith in oneself is wise and is a virtue IN MODERATION (otherwise it becomes conceit). Faith in others is wise and is a virtue in some circumstances, not in others.

Anyway, what helps us overcome challenges is NOT faith (i.e., the sense that we are CERTAIN to overcome the challenges no matter what), but rather hope (i.e., the sense that we have a good chance to overcome the challenges with effort).

What, you are never going to cook a new recipe based on the mere "chance" that it will taste good, you must have some kind of certain sense that it is fated that it will taste good or you will not even make the attempt? That is stupid. So you do not need FAITH to overcome challenges, you merely need optimism / hope.

~psychoblast~
 
>>Clearly, the virtue is not in faith itself, but in the wise selection of where to put your faith>>

yes. why not put it in the spaghetti monster? because your frontal lobe is making you trip the fuck out and you think "this is so amazing, it can't possibly come from me", and society has perfected the ability to plant hardcore beliefs into people, so your amazing experience mixed with tradition caused you to attribute your experience to the local concept of divinity?

the brain produces every piece of our consciousness. since consciousness itself does not seem to be limited by the energetic processes of the universe and has unlimited types of experience (eg, you can turn the pain or pleasure dial as high or low as you want. if you were in control of a brain, you would be able to give a soul a "religious experience" or a "hell" or anything in between. it's just information shuffling and being interpreted)

since all of our consciousness is produced by our brain, and sometimes our experience is unexplainable and very emotional, of course we turn to concepts like "god", where "god is everybody" and at the same time "god is love" and at the same time "god is the universe"

i'm sorry, but those are separate things. there is a connection, but calling the connection god is similar to calling any emergent complex system god, like a watch or a city

if god is everything, and the universe is god, then there is no god---there is just an amazing universe that provides astounding unexplainable (as yet) experiences

existentially, spirituality can evolve one as a person, but by spirituality i mean spelunking the tunnels of one's consciousness, subconsciousness, and, if there is such a distinction, whatever entity houses one's "qualia"
 
TearItDown said:
I hate it when people say that they were saved by god, and god helped them get through their tough times. That isn't really true. YOU got yourself through the tough times. That was all you..
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How can you talk for me??


Thru the Lord Jesus Christ and his grace and mercy, Ive got 2 year and 3 months clean from heroin!!
 
SececaRD said:
How can you talk for me??


Thru the Lord Jesus Christ and his grace and mercy, Ive got 2 year and 3 months clean from heroin!!
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Ah yes, Jesus Christ got you through, not your own will. How foolish of us.
Do you not realize that faith in God being behind you in your decisions and backing you up is simply positive self reinforcement?
Also, why did Jesus help you get off of heroin, and not other people?
These sorts of arguments remind me of people who are like 'It's a MIRACLE!'
A miracle is something that is unlikely to happen, and it does, which is positive in the eyes of the person. A tragedy is something that is unlikely to happen, and when it does it is viewed negatively. Miracles and tragedies happen all the time, because we assign the positivity and negativity to them. But when it comes down to it, its an event that was deemed unlikely by the person and it happened. But unlikely events happen... they're just not likely.
 
I seem to have missed all the God loving that's been going on.

Which god are we talking about here. Do you think they used protection? You never can know whose been up a deity's ass before you.

For the record, I believe in nothing and everything.
 
yes. why not put it in the spaghetti monster? because your frontal lobe is making you trip the fuck out and you think "this is so amazing, it can't possibly come from me"
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It does come from us though... God is within. My favorite quote is "God is in me, or not at all". Some interpret that quote (I forget who said it) to mean that there is no God, but I take it to mean that we are all carriers of God (or Christ consciousness, higher self, whatever perspective works for you). For that reason, I feel faith in myself IS faith in God, since God speaks through me and my life.

I notice so many people seem to see things as one way, or the other way. I always tend to see things multiple ways at once and then realize all ways are the same, just different angles of viewing...

Ah yes, Jesus Christ got you through, not your own will. How foolish of us.
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Once again, why can't it be both?
 
>> I notice so many people seem to see things as one way, or the other way. I always tend to see things multiple ways at once and then realize all ways are the same, just different angles of viewing... >>

this is of course the way to analyze things, but there are lines to be drawn, lest faux news starts to be considered serious
 
qwe said:
>> I notice so many people seem to see things as one way, or the other way. I always tend to see things multiple ways at once and then realize all ways are the same, just different angles of viewing... >>

this is of course the way to analyze things, but there are lines to be drawn, lest faux news starts to be considered serious
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I think when you view things spherically, you develop and instinct to just know when something is bullshit. I do anyway.
 
Well from what we can discern from around us, the Universe has gone from little complexity to more complexity. I.e from a non-complex singularity to complex galaxies and of course complex life. Planets, largely spherical to our eyes, with their complex weather systems, formed BY THEMSELVES through existing laws. As did life.
I feel a lot of arguments for God are like this
a) there is beauty in the world (beauty is subjective, some people think death is beautiful, or pedophiles think young children are beautiful) and subjectivity is no cause for argument.
or
b) the Universe is complex, therefore, it was created.
I don't subscribe to either theory, but my main argument is with b).
First of all, that logic is circular. If the universe is complex so it needed to be created by something infinitely complex, then by that logic this complex God also needs a creator. But then for some reason theres always a stupid statement like he's the alpha, the omega, beginning and end.
I hate the notion of faith too.
Always when arguing with the faithful they are like 'I just have faith,' but what is faith but wants and desires mistaken for knowledge?
There's no proof for God, so why believe it? Because you want to?
I just think if your beliefs inform your actions, then you want your belief to be true as best as you can logically discern. If you can't logically say something exists, why believe it?
 
^ Because you are assuming that an infinite God sacrificed himself (Jesus was God incarnate according to Christian Dogma) to atone for the sins of mankind. This is called scapegoating, a medieval practice and is viewed as incredibly immoral. Why must blood be spilled?
It's just a ridiculous theology, with no moral merit what so ever. Nor spiritual. In my opinion, more spirituality is found outside in nature, or studying the works of Darwin, or just learning about the world.
 
Bidcore said:
^ Because you are assuming that an infinite God sacrificed himself (Jesus was God incarnate according to Christian Dogma) to atone for the sins of mankind. This is called scapegoating, a medieval practice and is viewed as incredibly immoral. Why must blood be spilled?
It's just a ridiculous theology, with no moral merit what so ever. Nor spiritual. In my opinion, more spirituality is found outside in nature, or studying the works of Darwin, or just learning about the world.
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Well I agree much with the last thing you said. Most of my spirituality, if I had to define it, just comes down to appreciating the balance of nature. :) As far as the Jesus thing, it is not 100% black and white. Many people believe in parts of Christianity. I personally don't really believe in the whole Jesus sacrificed for our sins stuff, but I still follow some of the teachings of Christ and read the Bible in an oracle sort of way (I sometimes just open to a random page and read something and apply it to my life in a personal way). So when I say it can be both I mean you can have your own personal faith and also look to Jesus, in your own way. At least I do, but maybe people like me are rare. Most seem to believe, you are religious or youre not. You take the Bible literally and follow it word for word, or not.

Me I just pick and choose which parts of different religions make sense to me, mix them all together with my own completely unique take on things. I don't follow other peoples rules. :D
 
jamshyd said:
Well, I personally don't see the point of discussing further something that we admit is so much larger than us that we cannot individually conceptualize. Attempting to put it in words (or equations) is, to me, an act of arrogance.

But you guys are free to discuss this further if you want. Just stating my opinion.
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IMO, to try to attain this impossibility is a key part of being human.>
...
My usual line appeared already. ;)
 
Arguing against a literal interpretation of Christianity or Judaism is pretty easy to do. It doesnt take a genius to find contradictions or things that dont match up with science. Being able to successfully do so is no sign of great intelligence either. I dont think the value of these traditions (for better or for worse) lies in whether the myths stand up to scientific scrutiny. I think the value (or harm) lies elsewhere.

I do not believe in a literal interpretation of what I was taught growing up in Catholic school.....however, I lean towards believing that there is 'something' more, and dont see a lot of credibility in a strictly materialist worldview.

The notion that that all we see/know is all there is to be seen/known is a ridiculous position....as is the idea that if an idea cannot be proven that it should be assumed to be false....I guess nothing is really 'proven' in science, but philosophically there are gaps and weakness in scientific thinking....like having to take a position that cannot be true simply for the sake of maintaining objectivity. I dont know if anyone understands what I am saying, but if we were to apply pure science to every aspect of our life we would be crippled if we could not make some assumptions and judgment calls about the world around us...but that isnt science.
 
I thought that there was a thread on this before...lemme see if I can dig up my thoughts in another post:

Well, I failed to find it. Briefly, 'god' is the background of conditions of possibility out of which we, the actual, emerge. . .but god also encompasses the actual in determining it. . .but god doesn't 'exist', per se, as it's a configuration bounding the actual in terms of possibility.

So this position is both atheist and pantheist, as god is everywhere but also could be construed as a 'nonexistent' asymptotic 'limit' case, beyond the bounds of the system of which we're a part (ie, the actual universe) and the limits of our ability to discern (to adequately know the universe as a system, one'd need observe the universe from the outside, an imagined fiction for us). It then follows that 'god' cannot be captured by logics, as god is the precondition for such logics.

A possible adjunct (general corresponding ontology):
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?p=6661042&highlight=nitrous#post6661042

Also, prior thread on this topic:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=403378
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Good topic. Hopefully, I wasn't too 'cool story, bro' on it. ;)

ebola
 
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