me wanting my mind back ....could use some advice from y'all

[mattycat]

Hi Im Matt a 59 yr old morbidly obese 310lb male who has been taking benzos (klonapin 2.5 mgs.at the moment) for 15 yrs....

added lyrica (200mgs) daily for nuropathic pain 8 yrs.

have arthritis (dont take pain meds)and access to medical pot and oil ...also adhd and access to adderall etc. I use them on occasion.I smoke cigs.

But I am done.Just done.Dont use booze at all.

Just these 2 drugs on a daily basis have worn me down to a shadow of myself.

tried to get off the benzos using lyrica in rehab....failed miserably. then tried to detox the lyrica ...fail... and sick ,very sick.

these two drugs are like a firestorm in my body...I am alone and desperate to lose this weight and some of the drugs or all of lyrica....so I can have something of a life at this age before diabetes and all that crap take me under.

My brain feels cooked.I know its weird cause Im not using lots of drugs ....but I have trouble remembering and no motivation.

a dr suggested bariatric surgery but even if i cut up my gut ---THE DRUGS ARE STILL THERE.

DISSAPOINTED IN DRS NOW DON'T TRUST THEM AFTER GIVING ME THESE BENZO FOR YEARS.

Thought about spending my life savings and go to a rehab but not sure rehabs really deal with benzos or lyrica.And Im afraid of hospitals & institutions..terrified.

my latest info is my question in this forum ...actually if any good soul has any idea where i can start to lower these drugs ...i would be grateful.

Someone told me about memantine .....here is the theory ....dose 30 mgs memantine and when you feel very groggy ....half your meds and detox slowly from there?....if that makes any sense.???

I cant even get these two meds on a schedule ,I have no schedule.no friends ( i do have my cat ha ha)------but i just cant give up.

I have read everything there is about lyrica and ashtons manual on benzos...still stuck .

Feel like a weak person.And i want my mind back.

I guess i just don't want to end up in an old folks home where they feed me these drugs.

my physical health is failing. I came here because I know many of you know about drugs....and W/D

Looking for info of any kind. Honesty too.

I do know that taking benzos with pregablin is not a good thing (trusted a dr)---hard enough to quit the lyrica.

Thanks in advance for any advice you have on memantine or anything to lower these or where to start.

 

[Bearlove]

Hey man, welcome to the site.

I'm sorry your going through all of this and to be honest, I'm not really sure what to say. (you asked)

So many things going on in your life which are having a negative impact on you, normally I would suggest you posting in x,y or z section but I will just move this post over to our Support section (It's called the 'Dark Side') but its not all doom and gloom.

What I can say - Give yourself a break my friend (well random guy I just met) Shit happens. You are addressing your problems, you know there is no 'quick fix' so get your story out, have a chat and make a plan of action. Small steps, one hour at a time, day at a time, month at a time.

Take it easy

Bear

 

[Moreaux]

Hi Matt and welcome to Bluelight! I know how hard getting off of benzos can be, I was on them for 10 years and went to rehab and was cut off cold turkey - it is a brutal process but I can be done. Long term benzo use devestated the mind, and makes living a regular life very difficult. However, a lot of those impairments will heal and go away the longer you go without benzos. I don't have a lot of time right now to discuss it, but I will come back to this thread tonight. Don't lose hope.

 

[Rossak]

If you are really wanting to get off it, I would suggest tapering and then replacing it with a non narcotic drug and a healthy lifestyle. You can also mix in some supplements. I've dealt with similar feelings.... in my opinion there is not much I can say 2 you except ITS POSSIBLE and IVE SEEN IT DONE. As you wish...

 

[CFC]

As suggested above, if you can't go into rehab, then slowly tapering tapering tapering down is about the best you can do. To do that, you need a plan before you start, and some idea of how slowly to adjust the dose down to reduce the withdrawal effects. Clonidine (a centrally acting alpha-adrenergic agonist) and propranolol (a beta-blocker that crosses the blood-brain barrier) can be helpful during the process, but you'll still feel pretty awful. Can you not discuss any of this with a doctor?

 

[Moreaux]

Hey mattycat - sorry for the delay. I had surgery yesterday and was in much more pain that I thought I would be so I didn't get online yesterday.

If you decide to go to rehab, make sure they do a slow benzo taper. When I went to rehab, they cut me off cold turkey and gave me an antisiezure medication and tht was it. It was terrible, and I went through protracted withdrawal for over two years, but the first two years were the worst. If you can't find a rehab that does a SLOW taper, I would consider not doing rehab and doing your own taper. Here is a link to the Ashton Manual - this is one of the best, if not the best, resource to tapering benzos:

http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/

I know you haven't had success and have read the manual, but consider doing a slower taper than the manual suggests. The issues with benzos and lyrica is that they are both GABAergic drugs, so getting off of the causes extreme excitoxicity, which takes years to recover from.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitotoxicity

A very slow taper should help mitigate this. You are at a point where you need to make a decision, either stay on them and accept the degenerative effects, which will continue to get more intense, or do the taper and not cave when it's uncomfortable. You are stuck between a rock and a hard place, and I am sorry you are in this position.

There are some medications that can help you while you taper. Indural (propranolol) is a beta blocker used to keep blood pressure lower, but it works well with anxiety. Trazodone will help with the depression that comes with the taper, and it's a great sleep med that you can take with melatonin so you get decent sleep. You mentioned bariatric surgery, have you considered switching to an anti-inflammatory diet or even a ketogenic diet? Either one will help keep you stabilized while going through a taper.

As for bariatric surgery, that's a personal choice. I think if you can address the underlying issues that prompted the benzodiazapine use in the first place, and learn non-medicinal methods for dealing with stress and anxiety I bet you wouldn't need the surgery for weight loss.

I am a member on MyFitnessPal because I like to track my nutrient consumption, but I read the diet and weightloss forums and it seems that the mental health issues which lead to substance abuse are very similar to those which lead to obesity. While hormones and medications may increase your appetite, they do not actually slow your metabolism, and therefore it really is possible for anyone to lose weight based on a calories consumed/calories used method. However, if there is a mental health issue or depression, the motivation to actually weigh and log all the food consumed and stick to a calorie budget isn't there as food offers instant gratification and comfort.

I hope I didn't offend regarding the weight discussion, I just wanted to share my reasoning. Even with bariatric surgery, a major lifestyle change is necessary, and longterm success with just the surgery is actually very low unfortunately. I really think your best course of action to get back to a healthy productive life is to deal with the mental health piece and do a very slow taper. The slower the taper the more comfortable you will be. Then worry about weightloss. If your in a better head space losing weight is a piece of cake lol

Feel free to contact me if you have questions or just want to vent - benzos are hell to stay on long term and they are hell to get off of. I hve been off them for six years and I am so much healthier and productive. My cognitive deterioration stopped and I would say I am 80% healed, so I am hopeful for the future. I wish you the best!

 

[mattycat]

thank you Bear,Moreaux,and Rossak ..first what is xy z section?

I sent a reply pm to you Bear.

Ok there is no rehab that does a slow taper here.NONE . I too was taken off cold turkey after all these years ,I was in hospital...I couldn't do it.then I was back on lyrica (that was what they used to detox benzo)which i had quit for 3 months. I had one hell of a time stabilizing after that experience.

rossak i want to believe it can be done ,a dr told me because of my age and length of time on benzos I amy have to always be on a small amount.Do you believe that?

I have to be honest ,I have tried the crossover to valium and got severely depressed. Tried the lyrica w/d on its own --result in and out of hospital for 3 months.

I want o be open here..I have ptsd and ADHD. For the last 18mos took 15 mrs adderall just to have some kind of life. But amphetamines are hard on this old body.and I stopped for many health reasons.

while being honest I am way morbidly obese , and have thyroid issues and I am clearly depressed, I dont like taking an upper like addy or ritalin and downers too.But in order to get anywhere(literally ---I may have to) I have osteoarthritis,I use a cane and no painkiller --just walk thru the pain......celebrex once in awhile. I have the medical pot but i rarely use it ,I am getting oil to help some.But reluctant with that too.

No you have not offended me at all. Appreciate the honesty.I agree bariatric weight loss surgery is not a good solution here.

 

[mattycat]

ok that didn't get my whole response.I am new to this forum stuff.

here is the rest (i hope)

thank you Bear,Moreaux,and Rossak ..first what is xy z section?


I sent a reply pm to you Bear.
my situation is this .....no friends ,one family member who is supportive,kids with their own lives and we are not close enough to deal with this.
single with a cat. I have some money saved and work from home...part time.


Ok there is no rehab that does a slow taper here.NONE . I too was taken off cold turkey after all these years ,I was in hospital...I couldn't do it --It was inhumane.. I was back on lyrica (that was what they used to detox benzo)which i had quit for 3 months. I had one hell of a time stabilizing after that experience.I cannot repeat that.


rossak i want to believe it can be done ,a dr told me because of my age and length of time on benzos I amy have to always be on a small amount.Do you believe that?


I have to be honest ,I have tried the crossover to valium and got severely depressed(valium is fat soluble).failed badly . Tried the lyrica w/d on its own --result in and out of hospital for 3 months.No help .They called me a benzo head and hopeless.


I want to be open here..I have ptsd(my family were raging abusive alcoholics) and ADHD. For the last 18mos took 15 mrs adderall just to have some kind of life. But amphetamines are hard on this old body.and I stopped for many health reasons.But it got me to my appointments.drs here fire you for missed apps and charge 100 bucks each time.so my dr fired me.


while being honest I am way morbidly obese , and have thyroid/diabetes issues,hypertension and I am clearly depressed,and have a history of depression to go with the adhd. And The big one --a mixed up day/night sleep schedule-------I dont like taking an upper like addy or ritalin and downers too.But in order to get anywhere(literally ---I may have to) I have osteoarthritis,I use a cane and no painkiller --just walk thru the pain......celebrex once in awhile. I have the medical pot but i rarely use it ,I am getting oil to help some.But reluctant with that too.I have severe sleep apnea use a machine.I am no stranger to mindfulness meditation .it helps WHEN I USE IT.


No you have not offended me at all Moreaux. Appreciate the honesty.I agree bariatric weight loss surgery is not a good solution here.I fully admit to an eating disorder and smoking. I thought cigs and food were my friends THEY ARE NOT ! Before you begin to think i am a complete LAZY LOSER with no WILL POWER i hired a therapist to help with the ptsd.and a schedule for the meds. Not sure I have the right therapist ---certainly not good for drug reduction or schedule.. Addac is a possibility here and I am willing to go.That.and finding a good dr to help me with a plan is my next step ...does this seem reasonable?


I realize there are no short cuts here.But i have heard of Inderal and tried trazadone.The psychiatrist whom I have had for 15 yrs is retiring ,I am hoping to get a referral just because gps are reluctant to scrip klonopin. In reality when i first saw this shrink I was depressed ,he misdiagnosed me and gave me many drugs,most I flushed but some i took . But i was on only 10 mgs valium when i first saw him ...now2.5 klonopin??? I wish i had never went to him. he is a bipolar dr and I have classic ADHD -all he said was "sorry"-guess the adhd is obvious due to this disorganized post.I apologize for that disorganization.


Honest again ---I dont trust drs and its not like you get a choice where I live. And I dont want to take more pills but will if it gets me lowering these drugs.


now i have researched lyrica to no end...and read the ashton manual.But i will read it again.Ty for the link.I want you to know i take full responsibility as to where I am at. I took the benzos and then the lyrica to relive my neuropathy.But i had no idea they were synergistic. And in honesty ,I probably have that addictive personality.


still---I am struggling with thinking clearly ,its like going around in circles .As clear as I can this is how I see it for a plan.


1- I need some real world support for tapering ...look for a dr to help w slow w/d schedule?
2- need some support for a healthy lifestyle?A life coach maybe? leave the surgery alone for now.
3- try addac for addictions counsellor.
4-stabalize these drugs on a regular schedule.(harder than you think ..this was one of my questions ..take the largest dose at night?
5-find a good gp to deal with health issues as well and chronic pain.
6-continue with therapist for ptsd as that is the issue behind eating my face off!
7-keep moving!!!


I am unsure this is all possible as these drs here are put off with benzo users.BUT damn I have to TRY! If i could get a healthier lifestyle that would be a good step.


You guys are really amazing and you offer HOPE ...something Ive been short on.I applaud you for quitting benzos Moreaux !


If any of you have any other ideas or opinion on my plan I welcome those opinions.


I do have a decision here Rossack..(its my responsibility).for the last 4 years I have tried to end the drugs after 15 yrs of using ,fought and fought ...I can fight some more.just need some support and direction.


Sorry for the novel guys but wanted to be honest and see if I am on the right track here.


Bear ,thanks,one hour ,one day at a time.


Matt

 

[Moreaux]

Hi Matt! I hope you having a good day. I think your plan sounds solid - you do need support. Since you have multiple issues going on, I think there are many places where you can find that support. This site is a great resource for addiction, and MyFitnessPal is a great resource for weightloss. In my non-expert opinion, I think you need to focus on getting in a better headspace before tackling tapers and weightloss, though I understand both are dire.

I also want to say that no one thinks your lazy. Weight gain was a symptom of your mental illness just as much as me being a raging alcoholic was a symptom of mine. Similar root causes, different presentations. I self medicated with benzos and booze like you do with benzos and food. It's not a character flaw or a moral defect - it's merely a symptom of a larger illness. Both paths are grieviously destructive with respect to comorbid conditions that arise from over consumption. You ate your way into diabetes, I drank my way into prediabetes. Had I not stopped I would be diabetic now. I struggled for years to get sober and got caught in a vicious and destructive cycle of trying to stop and then relapsing because I didn't address the underlying issues. Once I began working on the issues (in my case OCD) quitting the substances was relatively simple. I lost 45 pounds my first month sober and wasn't even trying - I drank between 4000 - 6000 calories a day of beer, and that's not including food which would be huge fast food orders to try to feel better from the hangover (10 tacos from taco hell, 2 bean burritos, and 3 enchiritos; not bad for someone who is 5'2 and at the time weighed 150 lbs). I share the food quantities because I understand how satisfying it is to eat - I really do. When I would wake up feeling like death from drinking I would have a breakfast from Taco Bell (see above) and then a few hours later have two whoppers with cheese and two large orders of fries and a side of onion rings. Later in the day I would have an equally ridiculous dinner. How I didn't put on more weight is beyond me.

When you're feeling depressed and anxious it easy to try to comfort yourself any way you can, and food is just as satisfying as drugs (imo).

Regarding your taper - go super slow. If you want to post all your meds and the doses and schedule I can help you with a benzo taper, along with a lyrica taper. You can then present it to your doctor. One thing you have to keep in mind that getting off of some medications is going to have a direct effect on how the other medications behave. If your on blood pressure meds, I would not be surprised if you have to eventually increase the dose temporarily as you come off of the GABAergic drugs, as your blood pressure will increase.

In your situation, you're going to have to work VERY CLOSELY with a medical team. You need an addiction specialist, a good general physician, a nutritionist, a therapist, a good psychiatrist, and a good bariatric physician. Ideally, they would communicate with each other. Substance abuse and eating dispel riders go hand in hand, so it would be great if you could find an addiction specialist who works with both. Also, most doctors are terrible nutritionist so I think you need to see one that can help you make lifestyle changes to help get you out of the danger zone. Normally I would recommend eating clean, but some produce interacts with medication, and you have to watch your sugar regardless of the source, so I don't want to make any suggestions that could be harmful.

I think the best thing you can do right now is remain positive. I understand you may have to dig deep, but so many of the obstacles are much easier met with a positive outlook.

 

[mattycat]

I am impressed ! You have done a lot of work and are in a good place! Wow ok so I have a dr an addiction counsellor -no shrink may have to wait a long while-and not sure about the bariatric surgery thing. I want to say thank you for not judging me on the food addiction -that is the first support I have had ever on that !!!!! On my end I am working things trying to keep a positive attitude and yes I will post my meds and schedule -first I need to get the adhd meds sorted out . Thank you for your support ! All of you here are great .

 

[Moreaux]

Thx! I didn't have much of a choice - it was either get healthy or die. Don't think I'd be around today if I didn't make changes. I didn't want to hurt my family by being another statistic.

As for judging obesity - I would think you have it harder than us substance abusers because you can't hide your weight, and everyone is a critic. I used to judge people mercilessly because I was so insecure with myself, it was a strange way of inflating a nonexistent ego. When I got sober and realized what I had become, I realized people can absolutely be victims of circumstance, particularly when mental health is involved. It's so hard to overcome and get healthy, almost impossible when you're being judged and being treated like a second class citizen every time you leave the house. There really needs to be a culture shift in how we think about other people and treat them, it's killing all of us, and unecessarily so.

Staying positive is the best thing you can do. Remember when you are uncomfortable, it is temporary. It will get better. I had to tell myself that for several years, and now six years later I am almost normal. Never in my wildest dreams thought I could consistently feel this way. I know it's much easier said than done, but you are always welcome to message me if you have questions or need support.