RCs MDPV and Tardive Dyskinesia?

[Kenaz]

And so I threw caution to the winds and spent most of the day doing keybumps of MDPV, snorted and smoked: I went through a good bit more of the stuff than usual. It wasn't weighed (yes, I should have and did know better), but I'd estimate between 60-80mg of MDPV after steady but not daily morning usage of 10-20mg for a few weeks

This made my day extremely productive and quite happy: I have no complaints about the mood lift nor about the fabulous feeling of energy (and while the rush from smoked MDPV isn't quite up there with crack, it still provides a very nice blast of reinforcement to the pleasure centers). However, near the end I had a brief moment where I had what felt like a "tongue cramp." My tongue began fluttering in my mouth involuntarily for several seconds, then stopped. It was a very odd but yet somehow familiar experience. But since it went away I didn't think much more about it.

The tongue-twitching happened again the next morning a few minutes after a wake-up dose of around 10mg. Again it was a very brief episode, but unmistakable. And this time I remembered the last time something like this had happened. It was in 1984, when I was on major antipsychotics in a psych ward. My tongue felt odd and thick in my mouth at that point and my voice became hoarse and whispery. After informing a nurse of that, I received an IM shot of cogentin and phenobarbitol (not as much fun as you might think) and that particular medication (whose name I forget: I wasn't much for short-term memory at the time) was changed immediately.

I will admit that I was on limited sleep - a couple of broken hours. I am aware that stims can cause paranoia and anxiety attacks, and I don't think this was in and of itself any kind of medical emergency. But I think that any events which might be TD need to be taken seriously. And so I don't plan on doing any more MDPV myself until I check and see if anyone else has reported similar symptoms from overuse of Satan's Ritalin.

Stimulants apparently can cause TD, although not nearly so frequently as the first-generation antipsychotics. And since I'm obviously susceptible to the condition, it could just be a case of "you used your body like a toxic waste dump." But since we don't know a whole lot about MDPV, I thought I'd at least check and see if others had noted any of these symptoms in addition to or instead of the usual speed tics and gurning.:

# Involuntary movements - repetitive and purposeless
# Jaw movements
# Chewing-like movements
# Facial grimacing
# Tongue movements
# Tongue protrusion
# Lip movements
# Lip smacking
# Lip puckering
# Lip pursing
# Rapid eye blinking
# Rapid movements - of the arms, legs, and trunk.
# Involuntary finger movements
# Involuntary facial movements
# Abnormal facial movements
# Grimacing
# Sticking out tongue
# Sucking of the lips
# Smacking of the lips
# Involuntary rapid arm movements
# Involuntary rapid leg movements

Here's an interesting quote from someone who took 30+mg of MDPV over 4 hours.

T+24:00 (next day) – I’m at the office and still quite wired. My jaw is clenching and I feel amped, although I am able to get work done so the performance aspects of the substance are still at play.

T+48:00 (second day) – Stimulating effects are still present. I feel tension in my jaw and it is beginning to be quite annoying. I’m still able to work effectively.

T+57:00 (9:00 PM – yes, more than two days later!) – I’m out with friends at a club, and complaining to them about my tense jaw. I think all other effects are gone at this point, but my jaw still feels tired, and I find myself with an un-necessary amount of tension in my face.

That "tension" in his jaw and face could be gurning, but given the length of reported effect I wonder if that is all that was going on.

And here's another one:

18.00 30mg of MDPV is taken nasal and 30mg MDPV orally solved in water.
Unknown amount of snuff tobacco is consumed.

18:05 Non-placebo obscure active substance in bloodstream.

18:15 A weak stimulating body and head buzz.

18:30 Negatives:
Minor jaw-tension.
Involuntary movement of tounge and lips when not focusing.
This would be a chewing gum moment in social setting.
Increased pulse.
Hands tremble a bit, though barely noticable.
Tiny tactile and balance loss, which I suppose would go unnoticed.

Any other reports, positive or negative, would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Pseudovoyager]

I have bolded the side effects I have observed and added a few of my own. I've gone through about 500mg MDPV over 3 binges. I can assure you, in my case, these have all been temporary and gone away over 2-3 days with food, sleep, and vitamins.

# Involuntary movements - repetitive and purposeless - Developed a tic for the duration of my comedown wherein beating my chest gently and rhythmically with my left fist was a requirement or my arm would shake. Really annoying.

# Jaw movements
# Chewing-like movements
# Facial grimacing
# Tongue movements
# Tongue protrusion
# Lip movements
# Lip smacking
# Lip puckering
# Lip pursing
# Rapid eye blinking
# Rapid movements - of the arms, legs, and trunk.
# Involuntary finger movements
# Involuntary facial movements
# Abnormal facial movements
# Grimacing
# Sticking out tongue
# Sucking of the lips
# Smacking of the lips
# Involuntary rapid arm movements
# Involuntary rapid leg movements

Also had a weird vibrating feeling in my heart every now and then for a few days after and some slight chest pains. Seems benign/psychosomatic, though, possibly.

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

That sounds nasty, I wouldn't take any RC that causes such symptoms....even whilst on a binge.

Damn RCs8)

 

[Pseudovoyager]

That sounds nasty, I wouldn't take any RC that causes such symptoms....even whilst on a binge.

Damn RCs8)

I believe MDPV is relatively safe, but it's active at the 1-2mg range, and these binges are in upwards of 200mgs....Anything would probably cause bad side effects when used like that, all things considered silly druggies.

That said, I never condone MDPV binges past 50mg, and this should not happen.

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

Eh, okay, I'll give you that, but the long-term effects of well known drugs are just that, well known. How do you know that others using MDPV in the "recommended" doses won't have the same things happen to them in the long run?

It's certainly in the spirit of harm reduction to consider this...I've never taken MDPV, meph or any of the other recent ones, the last RC I took was 2C-I and that was a while ago. If you wanna go on a binge, go on a binge of something that you know won't fuck you up in the long run...you're talking about Tardive Dyskinesia here, a very serious medical issue arising after a few binges.

Maybe I'm being a bit paranoid, I dunno. There's gotta be a MDPV expert on this board somewhere

 

[Where Wolf?]

I don't think it's tardive if it occurs so soon after stimulant use - but something similar happened to me once, dyskinesia erupting after several nights on speed, in the form of cheap British Amphetamine sulphate, heavily cut and considerably weaker than meth. I'd been up for a couple of days, hoovering and swallowing large amounts, and was catching a bus back from London to college....and suddenly the tension of the comedown turned into, yes 'rapid involuntary hand movements', and I found myself compelled to get up and pace - a good way to freak out morning commuters. Scared the shit out of me: I just couldn't control my movements. Eventually, I got back to my room and sank a half-bottle of Jack with a few tablets of promethazine (only sedative I had to hand). Lay twitching in bed for a while, and when I woke up, it was gone.

It's got to be that dopaminergic rebound effect, as with anti-psychotics and L-dopa, et cetera. Convinced me that parkinson's really can't be a whole lotta fun.

 

[Pseudovoyager]

MDPV inhibits dopamine reuptake across the brain in a lot more places than other DNRI's. When the high wears off, downregulation is responsible for parkinson's-like symptoms. The opposite of what causes stimulant psychosis.

 

[Kenaz]

I agree that many of these reports - including mine - came after ingestion of stupid amounts in a stupid fashion. But given that TD is a pretty serious neurological event, I thought it important to note it.

I'd also be interested in checking how many other RCs lead to TD with excessive or repeated usage. I can see a lot of people thinking that weird tendency to pucker their lips was typical "gurning."

I would say that anyone who notices these symptoms needs to stop using MDPV (or any other drug) immediately: if they persist, seek medical help. While I haven't had any other incidents, I'll definitely keep BL posted on any other anomalies.

In the meantime, I'm sadder but wiser from the whole experience. I really thought I had no propensity for stimulant binges: I don't find stimulants nearly so euphoric or enjoyable as cannabis or opiates, my general drugs of choice. But I hadn't counted on the way a stim can get right into your reward response and bypass all those logical functions. MDPV can definitely lock you into a binge mode and have you dosing like a rat pulling a lever. And because of that I think it's vital that we keep records of weird things that can happen when higher doses are ingested.