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MDMA vs. Piperazines; Harmful Effects in Chronic Ecstasy Users

PepperSocks

PepperSocks

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I have a few young friends who use ecstasy a lot. There's not much I can do about educating them; they really don't care. In one ear, out the other.

I know their pills are mostly piperazines. They use multiple times a week.

I've told them that clean pills should only have what's called MDMA in them but they don't seem to care and will continue to take their piperazine pills.

What I'm wondering is if the influx of piperazines into the ecstasy market is saving the young irresponsible users out there.

If they were taking good doses of MDMA every time they took ecstasy... good god they would be so messed up. Neurotoxicity, psychological problems no doubt.

Is the fact that piperazines are in pills instead of MDMA saving them from the huge simultaneous release of serotonin and dopamine?

I don't know too much about the pharmacology of piperazines but from what I gather they don't have much serotonergic action and are more of a simple dopamine releaser not unlike amphetamine.

Are today's young ecstasy abusers receiving less damage than if they were getting clean MDMA pills?
 
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WTF? They keep taking piperazines? I'm suprised they like them lol.

That depends, if piperazines are less toxic (wich i'm not sure off) yeah they would be getting less brain damage.

But your also overstating the damage imo, around here everyone used to take XTC weekly in big ammounts and most ppl are completely fine.
 
PepperSocks said:
I'm talking multiple times a week, sometimes daily.

Mods: Title MDMD>MDMA.
Click to expand...

Well, MDMA doesnt seem addictive in the sense of taking it daily, so id gues they would slow down if they had real MDMA.
Ive been taking MDMA semi daily too for the first 3 weeks after i discovered it but eventually we all slowed down to twice a week.
With mdma most ppl slow down after a while.
 
pipes vs mdma... hm well since pipes came into circulation this year.

with mdma I want to eat large quantities when I start getting going in a short period, or alteast get at a good dose range and crash.

On the other hand, I have stayed up for long periods of time on pipes tripping sometimes slightly and randomly dosing and it actually made me a crazyfucking asshole(not to say there where good, over priced experiences from pipes at small doses and good dietary supplementation)
 
Unsurprising since I heard that thats where they come from investigating circulations from pill reports. I remember in like 2004/3 my friend bought a jar of x supposedly they where 5-meo-dipt from a pillre report. I actually got sold 5-meo-dipt again in 2006, and after having pipes now a days, I now think that that first jar was piperazines from drastically different tastes.
 
It is doubtful they would be taking mdma pills several times a week in the first place because they would quickly quit working and still cause a crash.
 
MeDieViL said:
WTF? They keep taking piperazines? I'm suprised they like them lol.
Click to expand...

A lot of people do. That's why they keep buying them and the market is the way it is. PMA didn't get many return customers; it also didn't last long.

Piperazines get a lot of return customers; that's why the market got filled with them.
 
Piperazines are probably toxic too, but I couldn't say exactly how much. Usually it's a combination of a DA/NE releasing piperazine (BZP) with a 5HT releasing piperazine (TFMPP), which should have similar toxicity to the MDxx class of compounds. Stuff like mCPP is probably not as toxic, but also probably not as much fun.
 
PepperSocks said:
A lot of people do. That's why they keep buying them and the market is the way it is. PMA didn't get many return customers; it also didn't last long.

Piperazines get a lot of return customers; that's why the market got filled with them.
Click to expand...

I suppose they use the right mixes then in your country, here they only put MCPP in pills and everyone that takes them starts puking, never saw anyone that loved them.
 
TFMPP and mCPP are probably cardiotoxic (long term, phen-fen style) due to 5HT2B activity.

Binding Ki's of 40nM for mCPP 50nM for TFMPP, compared to around 20nM for d-fenfluramine and 500+nM for real MDMA and 100nM for MDA.

Time will tell if pipes produce the same heart damage, but it's unfortunate that it's being tested on kids who don't know whatthey're getting into.

Source:
pdsp.med.unc.edu
 
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