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MDMA shortage contributing to city violence?

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phreaky

Greenlighter
Joined
Mar 23, 2007
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42
I've noticed in a few threads people mentioning that they are drinking more lately with the shortage of MDMA.

Then you've got the people who are buying pills, and they are full of god-knows-what.

Which got me thinking, could all the violence that we hear about in city (Melb, Syd, etc) be exasperated by the lack of MDMA? I really doubt anybody on MDMA would pick a fight or say a bad word to anybody.

I've been going to good vibrations for years, and this year I couldn't find a single person guring their ass off, but normally there's the odd one early in the day, and by night-fall everybody is chewing for Australia.

I think there could be some relevance here?
 
micky_mouse said:
i doubt it. i havent had a proper dose, but from what i can tell, people that take it shouldn't be aggressive, but i really have no idea.
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Proper does of what? I am suggesting that because there isnt MDMA around, people are drinking more than they may have if there was MDMA around, thus increasing the potential for alcohol fuelled violence.
 
yeah, MDMA. my first time i did get real MDMA, and the last time; on new years. on new years me and my boyfriend took 1 each, and my other friend took one. she rolled and we didn't, but i'm pretty sure it was cause we ate like an hour before.

i can only really compare it to lsd, it changed the way I acted and thought, and I assume MDMA does the same thing. but some people are just angry drunks i guess, maybe that's why they switched to MDMA.
 
I hear ya Phreaky, Interesting perspective I haven't really thought about.
it's rare but some people are extremely aggressive on mdma. I have seen this first hand and had a mate threaten to kill me for "walking on his concrete"

But this is extremely rare, and I think only happens with a very very minute amount of people, and they most likely would learn this quickly and drink in future instead of have MDMA like my mate.

I think it's entirely possible that with less ecstasy and more alcohol in peoples bodies that would explain some of the increase in violence. MDMA by it's very nature makes people happy, loving, euphoric and very empathetic. Because of this empathy people don't wish to see harm to anyone else.

Would be good to see some statistics to back up your view. Interesting point indeed :)
 
I was talking with a mate who said that his circle of friends USED to go out every weekend and dance the night away. Now they drink, occasionally have speed / meth and quite often get into punch-ups. That's what got me thinking.

I doubt anybody would be able to prove it though.
 
I think a lack of stimulants in general is provoking many more to drink (and drink heavily) instead.

We could attribute as many social ills as we like to the 'shortage', but violent incidents were occurring long before this erupted.

Seems to me as though the 'city violence' issue has been overblown quite a bit in the past couple of years, well at least in the state where I live. Ask anyone who used to work in the city 3 or 4 decades ago - you couldn't bring your family out to watch the fireworks on new years because the streets would be putrid. Compared with back then, the streets have far more law and order nowadays...
 
you have a valid point.. but i highly doubt it. I guess it would prevent a few fights, but where there's drinking there's always gonna be violence.
 
I think it's definately a factor, maybe not in certain venues where either the crowd are, as a rule, not overly violent, or where MDMA use was never a major part of the scene, but there's definately a bit less love going around now days in certain venues.

But that said, I'm very impressed with how little the 'rave' scene has changed in the last 24 months despite the huge decline in MDMA. People always say that ravers are only there to get munted and that the music sucks without drugs, but I'd say if anything the frequancy of events and the turnouts at these events has only increased over the last 12 months (after seeing a slight dip), and everyone seems just as happy and friendly as ever. Of course there are plenty of other chemicals going around, but even that seems in a little more moderation. On the whole, the scene seems to be carrying along as well as ever despite the complete absence of everyones favourite chemical.
 
^ Haven't been to enough Raves to have a reliable source.

But to me, these events nearly almost sell out, but people who like to rave don't tend to be fighters anyway, and theres always gonna be enough people who go for the music (Syklik recently had a cycle showing this)

As far as the violence is concerned is most public venues, I'm not suprised that there is far more violence because people are having meth as an alternative.
I'm lucky enough that I happen to like most things in life, sunlight, rain, conflict, dancing. All things I enjoy being in a presence of, so I don't need to be on anything to have an awesome time when i'm out.

Having said that I have so much more fun if I'm on some md or 4-mmc when I'm having a night out.

I guess the ultimate question is... what do each of us think? If MDMA was more obtainable would their be a decrease in violence on our streets? Which my answer to this, is yes.
 
At the risk of being unpopular here I feel the need to point out that the "increase in city violence" was a trend really taken notice of in the media about 18months or maybe even two years (if I remember correctly) before the GMC (Global MD Crisis) was first recognised. To which it may be added that some people are certainly destructive and violent on MD - a year or more ago a guy on pills burnt down some kind of food warehouse in Melbourne I think I remember, just for kicks, and a person I know once lent over to me and wispered "it would feel so good just bashing someone right now." In fact many of the users I know are also the people I would lable as most likely to get into a fight whether on drugs, drunk, or sober.

The loveyness people experience on MD is as much to do with their expectations prior to taking it, and the culture of the drug, as it is to do with the chemicals intrinsic properties. The drug has something of a reputation for making people "loved up" and this seems quite closely tied to the ideals of the rave/dance party movement. However prior to the current decrease in availability, availability had widely increased way beyond the circles who traditionally used the drug. Young people were/are not only taking it at raves, but also people in there 40's have been taking it for a night down at the pub, and kids who are too young to even get into a club were/are just taking it for a quiet night in playing video games. Culturally its no longer as specific as it used to be, and it seems that it is no longer as closely associated with uninhibited dancing, leaving your ego at the door, and loving your friends and strangers alike.

Certainly I've never had violent inclinations whilst on it, but then again I'm a relatively well behaved drunk as well. Saying MD users are all non-violent, loved-up, dance maniacs is as foolish as saying all pot smokers are hippies. In a golden age it was, like pot, attached to a movement and its ideals, but those days are dead, and now most users just take it in the same way as they take everything else, for a feel-good fix.
 
I agree moderateuser. Short of sounding like an old cunt with a "back in my day" speech, I don't really feel that the streets are any more violent than 20 years ago. People (mainly guys) would always get into fights, a lot of the time while drunk. The difference today is the violence is often indiscriminate or even unprovoked and rather than a few punches to the head, will now involve unconscious victims being stomped in the head while they lay on the ground. Today you see young women throwing punches at each other. I see a generation of young people who don't respect authority or the law let alone each other. There is more a of selfish "me" attitude with people no longer concerned with their fellow man. Believe it or not there did exist a code of conduct even in a drunken street fight. I can't say that the MDMA drought has cause this as you see the same change in school yards as much as the streets.

Violence in the clubbing scene, with a drop in Plur seems to correspond more with the mainstream acceptance of the dance music culture. Australia has a "hard rock" history. In the 80's and early 90's the music scene was dominated by live rock bands in pubs. Young men would get drunk, get rowdy and often get into a fight. Today nightlife has shifted to electronic music and dance floors yet the same "Ocker attitude" still exists. Unfortunately now you have everyone sharing the same clubs. Have you ever wondered why Hard energy trance music is the more popular genre today compared to the uplifting House trance of the "glory days" of clubbing? It's no real surprise the love has slowly disappeared as more boofheads left the pub scene in an attempt to find out where all the pretty girls and gay guys disappeared to. ;)

All things are cyclic and it is inevitable that things will change and evolve. Just as aggressive lads and muzza's have slowly infected mainstream raves and festivals I see a gradual shift back to the underground. Soon enough the most popular ticket in town will not be promoted by middle aged boomers and advertised in the Age or Herald Sun. The Big Days out's, Summerfield days etc will still cater for the masses but I see a shift back to more exclusive warehouse parties with a more select clientele and a less violent vibe. Don't forget a lack of patrolling sniffer dogs as well. ;)
 
*sigh* there was a lot less violence in the streets when meth was abundant, and cheaper

just goes to show how much people really know about their drugs.....

ice rage (mostly among males) in the private domain has always, and continues to be a pressing problem. but in case no-one had figured it out, meth has a sobering effect when combined with alcohol, thereby softening tendencies towards argument and aggression.
 
I think it's definitely a valid point , have a chat to a few security guys. The major thing here is how long has it been since there was a good supply of good mdma . It is years, and it's been getting steadily worse. It's not just a recent issue.

It's also not just violence. I'm finding the crowds are just not particularly friendly anymore. The mainstream acceptance could be a part of it, but the clubs I go to certainly aren't the big mainstream ones and I don't do the festivals etc. There are certainly more drunks in the clubs I go to now.
 
totaly valid point guys. just yesterday i brought this very fact up with some local media guys. rag(lourno and photog) and tv,( camers guys).

they seemed to agree without agreeing. i think they will take it to the supers and see from there.

hyroller made an interesting observation that i think actually fuerther validates this viewpoint:
that 3 -4 decades ago streets at night would be far more chaotic. but 3-4 decades ago we did not have mdma use amongst the social set, did we?

i am not sure that i agree with hyrollers last observation about meth tho.
 
thestudent14 said:
I guess the ultimate question is... what do each of us think? If MDMA was more obtainable would their be a decrease in violence on our streets? Which my answer to this, is yes.
Click to expand...

I'd say yes too. Call it a generalisation, but if on mass a significant number of people out and about were less drunk & more 'e-tarded' there could be a noticeable difference.

I recall seeing part of a documentary, I don't recall exactly what the show was about, but they were commenting on some huge dance party on in London in the early 90's, a record number of people attended, yet there wasn't a single arrest for violence.
 
psynapsurfa said:
i am not sure that i agree with hyrollers last observation about meth tho.
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most meth-heads tend to stick to meth, and meth alone...

moreover, one-eyed meth-heads stay indoors, not hit city streets, because they do not want to be arrested... for either valid or paranoid reasons...!

point being: meth culture is not as sociable as one might imagine. yes, meth-related activity and trade engenders violence but this is mostly due to people owing money, etc etc etc.


On another side note, I'd say the proliferation of Cocaine can be far more extricably linked with violent outbursts (esp. if you mix this shit with steroids)
 
meth- culture, and people taking meth socially due to mdma resources being nonexistant, may actually be two independent things.

i would tend to agree with you on the meth culture, while adding one thing: violence between lovers who use together and binge to the point of delusion and psychosis.

and yeah, coke can be linked to violent outbursts for sure.

still kinda agrees with the whole idea doesnt it. lack of mdma, more alcohol and various stims being used, possibly adding to more violence in our social venues and strrets.

its mdma's inherent ability to make the user more empathetic, than these other substances that is missing.
 
psynapsurfa said:
i would tend to agree with you on the meth culture, while adding one thing: violence between lovers who use together and binge to the point of delusion and psychosis.
Click to expand...

I've witnessed this a few times, and it's never pretty, not becoming.... not sure how such people end up coming back to each other, time and time again :\

And you don't see many people taking meth socially when it isn't as widely available... but yeah... club violence is part & parcel & has a lot more to do with clientele I think than actual substances... although that of course does play a role
 
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