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MDMA Recovery (Stories & Support - 7) [ALL LTC posts go here]
- Thread starter Tranced
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lostarchipelago
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2019
- Messages
- 5
Slack is a great idea. I’d still love to have live chats about it though. But if that’s too much for people to handle / not enough anonymity I totally get it.
hectorquiroa
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2020
- Messages
- 3
for supplements i am thinking about taking omega 3 and magnesium i wanna be on the safe side, is that good?
ZeroLuck
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2017
- Messages
- 372
Hi All,
Just been reading the last couple of pages of comments, especially interested in the comments re: trying to get "proper" research conducted into these long-term issues.
For me, I tried Molly for the first time 11 months ago, and have been suffering with standard array of the LTC symptoms listed. (although better than back in Aug '19, it is still causing havoc)
I stupidly decided to try this drug at 35, when I have a professional career and mid-way through doing an MBA. Lucky that my job has good medical cover, so I can share the tests etc I have had done so far.
I am not a doctor, however, I am lucky enough to be friends with quite a few.
I don't believe these LTC issues are brain receptor issues, I believe that they are the result of structural changes in the head/neck caused by the side effects, which then aggravate close-by nerves. We know that MDMA causes high blood pressure and the risk of stroke/aneurysms, as well as Bruxism (grinding, clenching, gurning). I believe these actions (or combination of) are to blame, with localised swelling or small structural displacements causing aggravation to the Trigeminal Nerve, and Eustachian tube. This could explain one-sided pains, neck and shoulder issues, headache (caused by spasm of the temporalis muscle) as well as ear popping and visual disturbances.
If it is blood pressure related (causing a change to the vascular system), this is likely to be the Carthoid or Vertebral Artery - should be checked for dissection (note that these structures are made of 3 layers and 1 or 2 of these layers can 'dissect'). This shows up on MRI or CT *with contrast*, or an ultrasound
If it is the jaw, then the Tempromandibular joint sits just behind the large root structure of the trigeminal nerve and the eustachian tube. This is the most complex joint in the body and only a Maxillio-Facial consultant or specially trained dentist can help. the joint should be checked for disc-displacement (MRI), lateral dislocation (however small) [best assessed with CT], and the joint 'capsule' and retrodiscal tissue should be checked for swelling and any build-up of scar tissue. An arthroscope can also be used to have a look inside and also clean out the joint with saline/steroids.
The reason why I believe it is not a receptor/axon thing is due to these neuro effects, which seem to be a form of "Trigeminal Neuralgia" (where the nerve is aggravated). This can be ruled out if symptoms do not respond to a course of (cheap) drug, Tegratol
My medical journey so far (all I have told that MDMA was involved):
1. GP (family doctor) approx 1-2 weeks after onset - fobbed off with migraine medication
2. A&E - had bloods taken (ok), doc decided not to scan
3. Neurologist - referred for MRI Brain (no contrast used) - (ok)
4. Neurologist - referred for Cervical Spine MRI (no contrast) - (ok)
5. Neurologist - deep tissue massage referral and audiology test - (massage didn't work, audiology all OK)
6. Neurologist - month course of Amitriptyline - no response
7. Neurologist - referred to Maxillio-Facial
8. Max-Fax - examined and referred to specialist TMJ physiotherapy (had 6-7 sessions prior to lockdown)
9. Max-Fax - referred for disc MRI (ok)
10. Max-fax - try an engineered Michagin Splint (the theory being that jaw may be slightly out so training a perfect bite to relax all jaw/head muscles) - [currently being manufactured]
11. Vascular surgeon (2nd opinion) - referred for an ultrasound of arteries (ok)
12. recommended to try a chiropractor
note that I have had no-ray or CT scans throughout
Just been reading the last couple of pages of comments, especially interested in the comments re: trying to get "proper" research conducted into these long-term issues.
For me, I tried Molly for the first time 11 months ago, and have been suffering with standard array of the LTC symptoms listed. (although better than back in Aug '19, it is still causing havoc)
I stupidly decided to try this drug at 35, when I have a professional career and mid-way through doing an MBA. Lucky that my job has good medical cover, so I can share the tests etc I have had done so far.
I am not a doctor, however, I am lucky enough to be friends with quite a few.
I don't believe these LTC issues are brain receptor issues, I believe that they are the result of structural changes in the head/neck caused by the side effects, which then aggravate close-by nerves. We know that MDMA causes high blood pressure and the risk of stroke/aneurysms, as well as Bruxism (grinding, clenching, gurning). I believe these actions (or combination of) are to blame, with localised swelling or small structural displacements causing aggravation to the Trigeminal Nerve, and Eustachian tube. This could explain one-sided pains, neck and shoulder issues, headache (caused by spasm of the temporalis muscle) as well as ear popping and visual disturbances.
If it is blood pressure related (causing a change to the vascular system), this is likely to be the Carthoid or Vertebral Artery - should be checked for dissection (note that these structures are made of 3 layers and 1 or 2 of these layers can 'dissect'). This shows up on MRI or CT *with contrast*, or an ultrasound
If it is the jaw, then the Tempromandibular joint sits just behind the large root structure of the trigeminal nerve and the eustachian tube. This is the most complex joint in the body and only a Maxillio-Facial consultant or specially trained dentist can help. the joint should be checked for disc-displacement (MRI), lateral dislocation (however small) [best assessed with CT], and the joint 'capsule' and retrodiscal tissue should be checked for swelling and any build-up of scar tissue. An arthroscope can also be used to have a look inside and also clean out the joint with saline/steroids.
The reason why I believe it is not a receptor/axon thing is due to these neuro effects, which seem to be a form of "Trigeminal Neuralgia" (where the nerve is aggravated). This can be ruled out if symptoms do not respond to a course of (cheap) drug, Tegratol
My medical journey so far (all I have told that MDMA was involved):
1. GP (family doctor) approx 1-2 weeks after onset - fobbed off with migraine medication
2. A&E - had bloods taken (ok), doc decided not to scan
3. Neurologist - referred for MRI Brain (no contrast used) - (ok)
4. Neurologist - referred for Cervical Spine MRI (no contrast) - (ok)
5. Neurologist - deep tissue massage referral and audiology test - (massage didn't work, audiology all OK)
6. Neurologist - month course of Amitriptyline - no response
7. Neurologist - referred to Maxillio-Facial
8. Max-Fax - examined and referred to specialist TMJ physiotherapy (had 6-7 sessions prior to lockdown)
9. Max-Fax - referred for disc MRI (ok)
10. Max-fax - try an engineered Michagin Splint (the theory being that jaw may be slightly out so training a perfect bite to relax all jaw/head muscles) - [currently being manufactured]
11. Vascular surgeon (2nd opinion) - referred for an ultrasound of arteries (ok)
12. recommended to try a chiropractor
note that I have had no-ray or CT scans throughout
ZeroLuck
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2017
- Messages
- 372
What's your opinion on the people like me who had only cognitive symptoms?
Horrible memory, concentration and DPDR?
Oh hey! I recognize you! We chatted on reddit. But you stopped responding to me
. Probably because you were too busy with life. It's cool. How are things?lionheart90
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2018
- Messages
- 249
. GP (family doctor) approx 1-2 weeks after onset - fobbed off with migraine medication
2. A&E - had bloods taken (ok), doc decided not to scan
3. Neurologist - referred for MRI Brain (no contrast used) - (ok)
4. Neurologist - referred for Cervical Spine MRI (no contrast) - (ok)
5. Neurologist - deep tissue massage referral and audiology test - (massage didn't work, audiology all OK)
6. Neurologist - month course of Amitriptyline - no response
7. Neurologist - referred to Maxillio-Facial
8. Max-Fax - examined and referred to specialist TMJ physiotherapy (had 6-7 sessions prior to lockdown)
9. Max-Fax - referred for disc MRI (ok)
10. Max-fax - try an engineered Michagin Splint (the theory being that jaw may be slightly out so training a perfect bite to relax all jaw/head muscles) - [currently being manufactured]
11. Vascular surgeon (2nd opinion) - referred for an ultrasound of arteries (ok)
12. recommended to try a chiropractor
note that I have had no-ray or CT scans throughout
the fact that you have been to so many medical professionals, and still be failed to be diagnosed as having an anxiety disorder, only helps to cement the fact that the medical field is not equipt to deal with this issue.
you have panic disorder with dissociative symptoms not otherwise specified. Or you could just simplify and say you have panic disorder.
MDMA starts the panic attacks. From the on, the only issue is anxiety and panic attacks. If you idiots would just LOOK IT UP you would find out for yourself, but you'd rather chat with other heavily anxious individuals and trade theories about how messed up y'alls brain cells and receptors are.
I really wish y'all would just start calling it panic disorder. its not LTC. its not new. And there are other communities around out there to help you get through it, you are not limited to the bluelight forum.
2. A&E - had bloods taken (ok), doc decided not to scan
3. Neurologist - referred for MRI Brain (no contrast used) - (ok)
4. Neurologist - referred for Cervical Spine MRI (no contrast) - (ok)
5. Neurologist - deep tissue massage referral and audiology test - (massage didn't work, audiology all OK)
6. Neurologist - month course of Amitriptyline - no response
7. Neurologist - referred to Maxillio-Facial
8. Max-Fax - examined and referred to specialist TMJ physiotherapy (had 6-7 sessions prior to lockdown)
9. Max-Fax - referred for disc MRI (ok)
10. Max-fax - try an engineered Michagin Splint (the theory being that jaw may be slightly out so training a perfect bite to relax all jaw/head muscles) - [currently being manufactured]
11. Vascular surgeon (2nd opinion) - referred for an ultrasound of arteries (ok)
12. recommended to try a chiropractor
note that I have had no-ray or CT scans throughout
the fact that you have been to so many medical professionals, and still be failed to be diagnosed as having an anxiety disorder, only helps to cement the fact that the medical field is not equipt to deal with this issue.
you have panic disorder with dissociative symptoms not otherwise specified. Or you could just simplify and say you have panic disorder.
MDMA starts the panic attacks. From the on, the only issue is anxiety and panic attacks. If you idiots would just LOOK IT UP you would find out for yourself, but you'd rather chat with other heavily anxious individuals and trade theories about how messed up y'alls brain cells and receptors are.
I really wish y'all would just start calling it panic disorder. its not LTC. its not new. And there are other communities around out there to help you get through it, you are not limited to the bluelight forum.
lionheart90
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2018
- Messages
- 249
you shouldn't be in here anymore man. No offense, and I know you like to help, but this place is not healthy or helpful. It's anxiety filled. The posters are full of anxiety, and spread it accidentally to each other.
People think they may be discussing solutions and how to get better. But really they are just stuck in little anxious circles, trying to find reassurance anywhere they can.
You've been on the healing track long enough, your body should be ready to heal if you just give it the right conditions. And one of those conditions is you need to limit the amount of outside anxiety that gets to you. That means cutting off people, places, and things (only temporarily for those long term connections you cant permanently sever) that are high in anxiety. As much as you might like those people places and things, you need to cut them out for a little bit.
the energy of other people will bleed into you. If you stay in anxious environments, you will stay in anxiety.
This forum in particular, very high in anxiety.
My opinion (and only an opinion) is interaction with the trigeminal nerve. Google it to look at the structure.
Muscle spasm of the lage head muscle ould quite easily explain the dpdr and concentration.
lionheart90
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2018
- Messages
- 249
y'all should google panic disorder
panic attacks are the root of the LTC.
MDMA begins the first panic attack. For a small percentage of people the first panic attack triggers a disorder where panic attacks and severe anxiety become an everyday thing.
symptoms. agoraphobia, not wanting to leave the house.
cognitive decline and decreased cognitive function (probably due to hormonal imbalances, body constantly being vigilant and on alert, adrenal depletion, etc)
severe anxiety
nerve issues - agitation. jumpy. easy to startle.
sleep issues
digestive issues
mood issues and disorder. anxiety, depression, etc.
LOTS OF SYMPTOMS.
and most importantly, dissociation. blurry vision (this is actually dissociation, most people just dont recogize dissociation when they feel it so they mis-label it)
I swear to god. the LTC is panic disorder.
and I would really appreciate if y'all would label it as such and get help based on it. Dont look up neurons, or studies of monkeys, or which supplements to take.
go talk to a doctor, tell them you developed panic disorder. you can tell them it was drugs, you can say you got in a car wreck. Panic disorder comes from usually weed, MDMA, or a natural disaster (or violent crime). Doctor doesnt need to know where it came from as that doesnt matter, the damage is in the disorder not where the disorder came from.
and for the love of god. DO NOT IGNORE THAT. do not say "ohhh, well, the studies of the monkey....neuronal...axonal damge... and... well..." nah. dont listen to that anxious voice in your head. Trust a motherfucker who has gone through this shit and came out the other side. I'm telling you its panic disorder.
Also. if you have fractals in your vision, that is HPPT, and is not related to the LTC. That is a disorder that actually is directly caused by the MDMA. Unfortunately it happens sometimes alongside the LTC, but its not a part of the LTC.
panic attacks are the root of the LTC.
MDMA begins the first panic attack. For a small percentage of people the first panic attack triggers a disorder where panic attacks and severe anxiety become an everyday thing.
symptoms. agoraphobia, not wanting to leave the house.
cognitive decline and decreased cognitive function (probably due to hormonal imbalances, body constantly being vigilant and on alert, adrenal depletion, etc)
severe anxiety
nerve issues - agitation. jumpy. easy to startle.
sleep issues
digestive issues
mood issues and disorder. anxiety, depression, etc.
LOTS OF SYMPTOMS.
and most importantly, dissociation. blurry vision (this is actually dissociation, most people just dont recogize dissociation when they feel it so they mis-label it)
I swear to god. the LTC is panic disorder.
and I would really appreciate if y'all would label it as such and get help based on it. Dont look up neurons, or studies of monkeys, or which supplements to take.
go talk to a doctor, tell them you developed panic disorder. you can tell them it was drugs, you can say you got in a car wreck. Panic disorder comes from usually weed, MDMA, or a natural disaster (or violent crime). Doctor doesnt need to know where it came from as that doesnt matter, the damage is in the disorder not where the disorder came from.
and for the love of god. DO NOT IGNORE THAT. do not say "ohhh, well, the studies of the monkey....neuronal...axonal damge... and... well..." nah. dont listen to that anxious voice in your head. Trust a motherfucker who has gone through this shit and came out the other side. I'm telling you its panic disorder.
Also. if you have fractals in your vision, that is HPPT, and is not related to the LTC. That is a disorder that actually is directly caused by the MDMA. Unfortunately it happens sometimes alongside the LTC, but its not a part of the LTC.
I have never said I have anxiety symptoms. Although they do come on when I fear that I have an aneurysm or when I'm getting tested for stuff in hospital, or thinking 'why was I such a cunt to fuck my life up...' (this is secondary effect, not a primary effect)
All I am doing is sharing my experience and attempting to piece a sound reasoning together so that it may help others. If you go to your doc and ask specific questions, it helps with being able to diagnose and treat the underlying issue.
All I am doing is sharing my experience and attempting to piece a sound reasoning together so that it may help others. If you go to your doc and ask specific questions, it helps with being able to diagnose and treat the underlying issue.
I'm sorry, but it is not panic disorder. You don't get popping ears and stiff neck, muscle spasm etc from panic disorder. I would suggest panic is a reaction to the unknown symptoms.
Hey, sorry have not been on reddit in a while. I thought I'd come on here to share findings...
Anyone with 'visuals' or dpdr. Look at a diagram of the trigeminal nerve, the top branch controls the head muscle (temporalis) [dpdr has exactly the same symptoms as temporalis muscle spasm headache], then the eye, sinus area etc. The 'root' of this nerve (the ganglion) lies right next to the eustachian tube, TMJ and carotid artery. Any inflammation in the joint or artery will aggrivate the ganglion and eustachian, causing spasm, visual issues and ear popping.
I'm not going to post here every day, but I'll let you know how I go with the dental splint, after a few weeks.
Ask your doctor about trigeminal neuralgia if you wish, it can be treated with a drug (but it isn't a permanent fix as drug resistance builds). But there is a credible explanation, unlike the completely unhelpful 'panic disorder' comments
Anyone with 'visuals' or dpdr. Look at a diagram of the trigeminal nerve, the top branch controls the head muscle (temporalis) [dpdr has exactly the same symptoms as temporalis muscle spasm headache], then the eye, sinus area etc. The 'root' of this nerve (the ganglion) lies right next to the eustachian tube, TMJ and carotid artery. Any inflammation in the joint or artery will aggrivate the ganglion and eustachian, causing spasm, visual issues and ear popping.
I'm not going to post here every day, but I'll let you know how I go with the dental splint, after a few weeks.
Ask your doctor about trigeminal neuralgia if you wish, it can be treated with a drug (but it isn't a permanent fix as drug resistance builds). But there is a credible explanation, unlike the completely unhelpful 'panic disorder' comments
lionheart90
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2018
- Messages
- 249
you do get those symptoms from anxiety though. look into it
I should clarify, its not just regular anxiety that gives those symptoms. it is the panic disorder that gives the higher level anxiety symptoms. Persistent muscle tension can create inflamation on nerves, and persistent anxiety will cause persistent muscle tension. you guessed it, right in the head and upper neck and upper muscles. its possible the anxiety causes the tension which can lead to inflammation, but I highly doubt it does that to everyone and leads to the pinched nerve being the cause of symptoms for most people. For most people, even those with a possible pinched or inflamed nerve, are still going to get most of their negative symptoms from the panic disorder though. it truly is the killer, you just need to research it and understand how it affects the body.
also I've been dealing with this issue for 3 years, and explore pretty much every possible explanation. and I have successfully beat the disorder too
honestly im the last person you should be doubting.
I should clarify, its not just regular anxiety that gives those symptoms. it is the panic disorder that gives the higher level anxiety symptoms. Persistent muscle tension can create inflamation on nerves, and persistent anxiety will cause persistent muscle tension. you guessed it, right in the head and upper neck and upper muscles. its possible the anxiety causes the tension which can lead to inflammation, but I highly doubt it does that to everyone and leads to the pinched nerve being the cause of symptoms for most people. For most people, even those with a possible pinched or inflamed nerve, are still going to get most of their negative symptoms from the panic disorder though. it truly is the killer, you just need to research it and understand how it affects the body.
also I've been dealing with this issue for 3 years, and explore pretty much every possible explanation. and I have successfully beat the disorder too
honestly im the last person you should be doubting.
ZeroLuck
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2017
- Messages
- 372
Appreciate the care man, I'm pretty alright, so much that the forum doesn't even affect me and I don't mind at all visiting as a habbit.
I have no highlighted anxiety, very good at detecting the generic one that most people take as normal state or feeling "worried". Driving and multitasking isn't as horrible, even started riding a motorcycle and been the best in the group.
Feeling excited about things as well, during the LTC I couldn't have dreams or passion for anything, but all those returned. So the anehdonia is gone.
My concentration is maybe even better than before, just my short-term memory isn't probably as good, but can't ever be tested/compared so I didn't care for awhile.
Living healthier, being active physically and mentally returned the optimistic mindset that I needed to cut the anxiety cycle.
When you're depressed and/or anxious everything is filled with dread and doom. When you're healthy mentally however, your mindset is that you can achieve everything.
Looking back through all the threads, we are just another "generation" of people who recovered and moved on with their lives. Wish I stuck a little more for the new ones
ZeroLuck
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2017
- Messages
- 372
SSRIs is increasing the amount of serotonin, and it's the only thing helping you, then why you think it's physical in context out of your brain structure?
Caffeine making you feel the same as before you sleep hints that its stimulating properties hit the same vulnerable spot.
I would try keto diet as an experiment, your brain could be working different with ketones in opposition to glucose which is more stimulating.
(Keto diet could make you feel sick and worsen the insomnia in the adaptation phase, so you should really give it a chance)
I sincerely hope you'll give it a try.
ZeroLuck
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2017
- Messages
- 372
Bringing the information from your medical examinations is helping with adding options to the table about the whole nightmare going on, (helpful for the community) something doesn't add up with the dpdr with my case tho, because my dpdr went away when I've changed my perspective as that it's a self-defensive mechanism for the brain, disassociating you from reality so you're more resilient to anxiety and your surroundings.
Literally hours after embracing dpdr as a benefit it stated to get weaker til completely disappearing in few days.
Ultramarine
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2013
- Messages
- 9
You are being rude and misleading... of course for some people this experience is more related with anxiety/panic and will probably go away in a matter of months/few years. Others, like me, are experiencing something that is clearly physical and related somewhat with a change in the structure of the brain. I'm talking about pressure in the left side of the brain that links with the eye and the jaw and that WORSENS thanks to completely unrelated stimuli ranging from reading, to loud noises to even eating food that has lots of chemicals added. This without me overthinking about the symptoms or in some way "causing" them, it's the other way around: they manifest, worsen and so I think about them. And guess what, it's been 7 years, so please don't come and talk generically about panic attacks, that might have been YOUR situation. I'm here to see if I can overcome once and for all these remaining symptoms thanks to the help of the community that might come up with some medical evidence and something to speed up recovery. In this sense the reporting of of esucfu is golden and I wish he will come back to share if he finds something, I feel that the nerve inflammation related to blood pressure could be a valid explanation.
lionheart90
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2018
- Messages
- 249
its your situation too, you just don't know how to beat it.
anxiety begins with the panic disorder, but if you don't beat it in time then it becomes behavioral. Behavioral means that your own behaviors are keeping the anxiety alive and active.
so while it may begin with drugs, or a natural disaster, or panic disorder, eventually it will work its way inside your body and your behaviors themselves will keep the anxiety alive. Most people, either through luck or through the help of medicine or a medical healer, are able to beat it in time. You are not one of those people, you are one of the very few. I have ran into maybe 3-4 other people in a similar situation.
behaviors that may seem like they are protecting you from the anxiety, like washing your hands if you feel like they are dirty (when they really don't need to be washed). Or Like avoiding going outside because you feel like there is a threat or anxiety causing situation outside. On the flip side, if you ignore these urges and deny them as anxiety, they also won't go away they will just get pushed sub-consciously to the back of your mind and torment you from there. They have to be confronted and exposed in a very specific way so that they can be seen as they are, anxious behaviors, and not behaviors that protect from anxiety.
honestly, even your symptoms I have seen in the community before. There are people who deal with this for 5, 10, 15 years because they never figure out how to move past the behavioral stage. they never reach out for help or understanding, and they just struggle on their own for basically ever. At some point its their own actions that keep them in symptoms, not any disorder.