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MDMA Recovery (Stories & Support - 4)

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I imagine that many psychologists looking at this would try to intellectualize this on a phenomenon level - that is to say they want an intuitive explanation like "the self is shutting down and blocking joyful input because it has received too much stimulation" (really random horrible example), but there's probably no way to really understand this intuitively like there is with a person being acutely depressed after a loss of a loved one for example. They miss their loved one, fairly easy to understand although there might be complicating factors like guilt or regret if they didn't leave on a good note or get to talk about something that they meant to, but at least that's intuitively understandable. With LTCs, there's probably something specific (or multiple things) going on at a biological level that have no real purpose, no rhyme or reason to it.

But whatever the abnormal biology is, it can then go on to cause phenomena that it might help to try to think about intuitively. For example, LTC causes a lot bad symptoms, then people worry and ruminate. Some of the same biology that causes the symptoms probably causes biology that's more conducive to rumination and over-thinking as well. We can at least intuitively know that the over-thinking, if present in an LTC sufferer, is bad (and you might have been doing it before as well, just not over-thinking about negative things that stress you) and we can know that the over-thinking is contributing to the LTC or perpetuating it, and therefore we should try to do whatever we can to curb all the over-thinking.

I had this problems with overthinking situations long before I ever touched any kind of drugs. It mostly was about what other people think of me, why I'm acting the way I do and so on, so mostly about social behavior. When I began to meet more people this thoughts got less, it seems like when I or someone else with this behavior pattern feels bad, he begins to get into this vicious circle again.

And something else I wanted to mention is, that I'm sure if you would tell a psychiatrist this feelings of total numbness and loss of interest, it fits to the diagnosis of a severe form of depression. And for people who are predisposed for depression (like me), MDMA could be like a neurochemical trigger to bring a underlying depression to the full scale.
 
I am in month 4. Yeah, my body is extremely sensitive. I had four cups of coffee that morning that set me back. I believe it put me into another category. My LTC was no longer dynamic. After that, benzos stopped working right. They had this weird effect on me. I also developed HPPD and tinnitus post caffeine. These also could've been activated by the trazadone. Or maybe they were just really delayed onset. Who knows really. Right now I'm trying to go just use a med for sleep (clonidine). I think that 5 HTP is fucked up for everyone to try in LTC. What I think is that anything affecting your serotonin unnaturally is not a good idea if you're early on. Your brain is rushing to fix things early. People with brain injuries recover the most in the first six months. And then you throw in an additive on an already compromised system. I wish I had thought this through before I took it.
 
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I reached for the 5htp in a desperate attempt to stop a bad day from happening. This kind of strategy is what could kill me. I believe this to be the main impulse for setting yourself back. It's necessary to ride out those anxiety waves.
 
4 months is a short time measured in MDMA recovery. In my 4th month I sometimes (even with 5-HTP) felt so extremely bad that I didn't even fell asleep after 30mg of Valium. My whole body felt like a stiff stone and I simultaneously had extreme fear but on the other hand my emotions were totally numb, with other words, the living hell.
The first emotional improvements came after about 6-7 months, where I slowly began to feel things like normal tiredness, appetite, and so on.
So if you are in this state now, don't think it will last forever. You are now probably on your peak of LTC, so it will get less in the next months.
It's hard to believe that it will get better but it's true.
 
Cotcha, could this be though HPA-axis disregulation?

Concerning caffeine, I see no particular reason to assume fnono's reaction is being directly mediated by the HPA axis because the adenosine receptors that caffeine blocks are very widespread and play various roles. I had something similar happen with caffeine and it just took some time to get back to baseline. If I recall correctly, fnono was well on his way to recovering from caffeine but then the 5-HTP thing happened.
 
Is there a difference of caffeine, 5 htp etc. for those on a "LTC" vs "Paws"? I'd put myself in the latter category. Given that I felt brilliant for about three weeks after my last roll, is it likely my brain is just starved of a level of serotonin it was used to getting? My symptoms really are mainly depression, manifesting itself as anxiety/stress.
 
Concerning caffeine, I see no particular reason to assume fnono's reaction is being directly mediated by the HPA axis because the adenosine receptors that caffeine blocks are very widespread and play various roles. I had something similar happen with caffeine and it just took some time to get back to baseline. If I recall correctly, fnono was well on his way to recovering from caffeine but then the 5-HTP thing happened.

I wanted to mention this because as far as I understood the HPA-axis is important in case of stress tolerance and could be disturbed by long lasting stress. My theory would be that he was in a stable, but very vulnerable state, and this artificial stress reaction caused by caffeine destabilized him again. And if the HPA-axis would be normal functioning, a single dose of a drug like caffeine, that actually shouldn't cause longer lasting changes in brain chemistry, would maximally make him feel worse for one or two days.

So if I understand right, the HPA-axis is some kind of regulator to prevent extreme reactions of the brain and body due to stressful situations?
 
Anyone get or heard of getting a LTC from just half a pill? I'm on month 3 right now and I really can't believe half a pill can really mess you up this much.
 
Is there a difference of caffeine, 5 htp etc. for those on a "LTC" vs "Paws"? I'd put myself in the latter category. Given that I felt brilliant for about three weeks after my last roll, is it likely my brain is just starved of a level of serotonin it was used to getting? My symptoms really are mainly depression, manifesting itself as anxiety/stress.

If your main symptom is really just feeling a bit down, try 5-HTP for a few days to restore Serotonin, that doesn't sound like a "bad" LTC to me. And it's normal to try to chase this rolling feeling, thats the psychological side of MDMA addiction (yes, it exists). Try to come over the thought that the MDMA experience is something god like, it's difficult but possible.
 
Is there a difference of caffeine, 5 htp etc. for those on a "LTC" vs "Paws"? I'd put myself in the latter category. Given that I felt brilliant for about three weeks after my last roll, is it likely my brain is just starved of a level of serotonin it was used to getting? My symptoms really are mainly depression, manifesting itself as anxiety/stress.
I think I personally would try to go it sober as long as you can if you're making progress over the next couple of weeks. Setting an artificially high level of serotonin when your brain is probably already trying to compensate for the MDMA's induced high level of serotonin means that your brain could be further attempting to compensate for an artificially high level with 5-HTP, LTCs are probably a different situation.
 
Well, I'll mention that everything changed after the caffeine and began a two week cascade of worsening symptoms before it started to get better. Same with the 5htp.
 
So if I understand right, the HPA-axis is some kind of regulator to prevent extreme reactions of the brain and body due to stressful situations?

It's probably best to think about the HPA axis as a regulator of stress response, the purpose of which is to prepare somebody physically and mentally to respond to either a real or perceived threat. But it's quite easy for the brain to perceive a threat - we're wired that way because it's been better for our ancestor's survival chances to perceive a threat where there is none rather than not perceive a threat where there really is one.

It could be that caffeine blocking the adenosine receptors momentarily shifted his brain into a more wakefulness-like mode and that he is still recovering from that.
 
Anyone get or heard of getting a LTC from just half a pill? I'm on month 3 right now and I really can't believe half a pill can really mess you up this much.

I think I have heard of LTCs from very low doses, and I can tell you that girls especially can get bad hangovers from half a pill as well.
 
It's probably best to think about the HPA axis as a regulator of stress response, the purpose of which is to prepare somebody physically and mentally to respond to either a real or perceived threat. But it's quite easy for the brain to perceive a threat - we're wired that way because it's been better for our ancestor's survival chances to perceive a threat where there is none rather than not perceive a threat where there really is one.

It could be that caffeine blocking the adenosine receptors momentarily shifted his brain into a more wakefulness-like mode and that he is still recovering from that.

Ok interesting. MDMA itself is a stimulant so (And raises cortisol levels up to 800% when dancing at a rave and 150% without according to that one study) isn't it logical that it could disrupt the stress response regulatation by the HPA axis? Such that things that weren't threats before suddenly become percieved stressors?

I mean people do get "LTCs" from things like weed, adderall, etc so it doesn't seem farfetched to me that anything which alters brain chemistry severely can cause it. And than of course when already in that state doesn't seem far off to see how even small variations can become amplified. Or like what somebody mentioned PAWS which I'm guessing is benzo w/d?

Either way the main issue is how exactly to address and repair the HPA axis so that it gets the proper signals to execute a normal stress response. Doesn't serotonin also control hormones so would hormones be an indirect way to see if the serotonin system or other stuff has recovered?
 
Ok interesting. MDMA itself is a stimulant so (And raises cortisol levels up to 800% when dancing at a rave and 150% without according to that one study) isn't it logical that it could disrupt the stress response regulatation by the HPA axis? Such that things that weren't threats before suddenly become percieved stressors?

I mean people do get "LTCs" from things like weed, adderall, etc so it doesn't seem farfetched to me that anything which alters brain chemistry severely can cause it. And than of course when already in that state doesn't seem far off to see how even small variations can become amplified. Or like what somebody mentioned PAWS which I'm guessing is benzo w/d?

Either way the main issue is how exactly to address and repair the HPA axis so that it gets the proper signals to execute a normal stress response. Doesn't serotonin also control hormones so would hormones be an indirect way to see if the serotonin system or other stuff has recovered?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17022948
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10336728

I'm really in that idea that Curcumin could be a helpful substance in LTC recovery. Period. There are so much positive studies about it's effect on brain chemistry and regulation of impaired neurochemistry
 
Cotcha Yankinov;[URL="tel:13844250" said:
13844250[/URL]]I think I personally would try to go it sober as long as you can if you're making progress over the next couple of weeks. Setting an artificially high level of serotonin when your brain is probably already trying to compensate for the MDMA's induced high level of serotonin means that your brain could be further attempting to compensate for an artificially high level with 5-HTP, LTCs are probably a different situation.

Im 6 months since the roll and 5 and a half since the symptoms emerged. I guess I've made it this far without medication, but honestly it's been a nightmare. Is there progress? I'm not having panic attacks anymore, I'm functioning, I can deal with the pins and needles, even the fatigue is bearable, but the mental stress of it all is a killer.

It really is all I think about all day: I go to work, the pub, watch TV, exercise, I do it all with my mental state playing on my mind. And before anyone says distract yourself, keep busy - it's not as easy as that!

Has the adjustment to life without Mandy caused my serotonin receptors to down tools? All my symptoms are typical of someone seriously lacking serotonin.

I get that sober is the "ideal" route, but I'm not sure how much longer I can carry on with this snail paced recovery. It's not ideal, but would a short course of SSRIs give my mind the much desired breathing space so I can crack on with my recovery?
 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17022948
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10336728

I'm really in that idea that Curcumin could be a helpful substance in LTC recovery. Period. There are so much positive studies about it's effect on brain chemistry and regulation of impaired neurochemistry

Tried Escitalopram and it didn't help me much. Made things worse at 10 mg (which cotcha thought couldve been high dose for me even though drs seem so quick to write that up) due to the sexual side effects and emotion numbing.


Did explore curcumin for a bit but didnt see much. Granted I had no idea about the lipid solubility etc stuff you guys discussed and I literally just took a random curcumin supplement at the store. The good thing is I am past that stage where if I react badly to something it sets up a horrid spiral so at least there is some freedom.

Has anybody heard of Gepirone btw? It seems like it got FDA approved this year but yet I see nothing about it commercially.
 
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I get that sober is the "ideal" route, but I'm not sure how much longer I can carry on with this snail paced recovery. It's not ideal, but would a short course of SSRIs give my mind the much desired breathing space so I can crack on with my recovery?

Sorry - I didn't realize you were 6 months in.

I would probably much sooner try SSRIs (Citalopram for example) than 5-HTP. Some people seem to have great success with SSRIs.
 
Tried Escitalopram and it didn't help me much. Made things worse at 10 mg (which cotcha thought couldve been high dose for me even though drs seem so quick to write that up) due to the sexual side effects and emotion numbing.


Did explore curcumin for a bit but didnt see much. Granted I had no idea about the lipid solubility etc stuff you guys discussed and I literally just took a random curcumin supplement at the store. The good thing is I am past that stage where if I react badly to something it sets up a horrid spiral so at least there is some freedom.

Has anybody heard of Gepirone btw? It seems like it got FDA approved this year but yet I see nothing about it commercially.

You can read my post about how SSRI's worked for me during the LTC. Maybe this could help you.
And about the resorbtion of curcumin, there are some liposomal curcumin preparations on the market if you want to try it.
Curcumin is safe and has nearly no side effects, this is one of the reasons why I hold it up so high.
 
Amml;[URL="tel:13844216" said:
13844216[/URL]]If your main symptom is really just feeling a bit down, try 5-HTP for a few days to restore Serotonin, that doesn't sound like a "bad" LTC to me. And it's normal to try to chase this rolling feeling, thats the psychological side of MDMA addiction (yes, it exists). Try to come over the thought that the MDMA experience is something god like, it's difficult but possible.

its a little worse than feeling a bit down, but I get your point haha.

Was i addicted? Who knows. Although the magic was wearing off, I could say no to nights out if I needed a bit more of a break, and I knew after my last couple of rolls that it really wasn't agreeing with me anymore (the comedowns would get a little longer), it would reach a point in time where I couldn't say no to my friends.

Its also probably important to note that before this kicked off I was incredibly stressed at my old job and dealing with the after effects of a bad relationship I.e I wasn't very content with life anyway and although I didn't feel depressed, it would be a well educated guess that my stress levels were already high and my serotonin levels a little low.

On reflection, Mandy of all the recreational drugs was one of the poorer choices to accompany the weekends and probably massively exasperated an already delicate mental state.
 
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