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MDMA Recovery (Stories & Support - 4)
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Cotcha Yankinov
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There will be a steady improvement and little victories along the way that will encourage you, so keep your chin up and know that you will feel better soon, and also that forever thereafter you will really appreciate every day.
Bruhhhh1234
Greenlighter
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Cotcha I have two questions. Whaa the difference from when running that my heart rate is high maybe matching the rate if someone were to have a panics attack and their hr spikes. Mine only spikes after I would smoke I haven't smoked in a while because of what xtc did to me and I'm on ltc but my ltc isn't as severe as a lot of these other stories. Second question you might recognize this one but after this rave I took what I thought was Molly and it wasn't before that I've had a history of x use. But when I came back from the rave I took a dab and my heart started racing so much I went to the er. All test came back good no signs of heart problems. Gave it time for myself to stop cramping smoked again and my body heated up and my heart was racing again. You think I'll ever be able to smoke again? This is bugging me that I can't
Cotcha Yankinov
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I think there's probably a difference between a HR increase because you're getting low on oxygen from running and your cardiovascular system kicks in, and then an HR increase from adrenaline (panic attacks) or drug's effect on the respiratory/autonomic centers in the brain/brainstem.
I don't know how long it will take for you to return to normal or if you'll be better off never smoking but I would just be grateful for whatever level of mental and physical health that you have. It can always be worse.
I don't know how long it will take for you to return to normal or if you'll be better off never smoking but I would just be grateful for whatever level of mental and physical health that you have. It can always be worse.
Bruhhhh1234
Greenlighter
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I just wonder if it's just a problem somewhere that when I smoke my body heats up n it'll eventually stop..
Cotcha Yankinov
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Paradoxical reactions to benzos can also happen to normal people, and I've also heard different things about different benzos. No experience myself except lunesta/zolpidem help me sleep.
@Cotcha
Good explanation. My LTC isn't that bad but I want to start this convo for others.
So what exactly do you do then about the feeling? One isn't always practicing mindful meditation 24/7. So what are you doing in the times where you aren't? Aka what is the "real life" application (not sure if I am saying this right).
for example, lets say you are at work or school with LTC symptoms. These directly impair performance. And you may get thoughts like "My mood is ruining my life cause now I am doing poorly on this" etc. So then it goes back to fixing the mood since fixing that would resolve the problem. But its hard to fix so what do you do then? As in its the *now* where the problem exists and by it existing now it directly affects the future since work/school both affect the future. So ok, you can try to stop projecting into the future but regardless these things are still going to affect it.
The only difference I see is that you can stop thinking about the consequences but objectively they still exist whether you obsess over them or not.
Basically, how exactly can you stop worrying about the future when its the problems/symptoms in the present that are causing you to worry about the future. It seems really difficult unless you get rid of the symptoms.
Good explanation. My LTC isn't that bad but I want to start this convo for others.
So what exactly do you do then about the feeling? One isn't always practicing mindful meditation 24/7. So what are you doing in the times where you aren't? Aka what is the "real life" application (not sure if I am saying this right).
for example, lets say you are at work or school with LTC symptoms. These directly impair performance. And you may get thoughts like "My mood is ruining my life cause now I am doing poorly on this" etc. So then it goes back to fixing the mood since fixing that would resolve the problem. But its hard to fix so what do you do then? As in its the *now* where the problem exists and by it existing now it directly affects the future since work/school both affect the future. So ok, you can try to stop projecting into the future but regardless these things are still going to affect it.
The only difference I see is that you can stop thinking about the consequences but objectively they still exist whether you obsess over them or not.
Basically, how exactly can you stop worrying about the future when its the problems/symptoms in the present that are causing you to worry about the future. It seems really difficult unless you get rid of the symptoms.
Cotcha Yankinov
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"So what exactly do you do then about the feeling? One isn't always practicing mindful meditation 24/7. So what are you doing in the times where you aren't? Aka what is the "real life" application (not sure if I am saying this right)."
Thanks for bringing this up socrilus.
There are two practical components of mindfulness - concentrated meditations, maybe 2-3 sessions of 10-15 minutes a day, and then also as you progress with the concentrated sessions, begin to expand your mindfulness meditation out into the rest of your day, which is very important. It can be hard to expand it out to the rest of your day at first but as you gain practice with the concentrated sessions it will become easier and will eventually become habit. The first place to start would be to, at the end of a mindfulness session, start going about your day and see how long you can carry the mindfulness with you, and then try to catch yourself throughout the day when you are having negative thoughts or are lost in thought.
So mindfulness might actually play out like this: You're going about your day when you have a "Man I feel horrible" genre thought, then that single thought might generate more thoughts and before you know it you're lost in thought, or are at least distracted. The idea with mindfulness is that you begin to catch yourself earlier and earlier, before you're lost in thought. After a long time of practicing you might catch yourself at "Man I feel-" or even earlier.
But the important thing to understand is that as you practice mindfulness, your biology changes so that you will sustain the mindfulness mindset easier and easier. You won't have to exert the same level of concentration to be on guard against these thoughts or being lost in thought in the endgame of mindfulness, it will just be habitual and you won't have to think about it very much. Your biology will also change so that you have less of these thoughts in the first place.
"The only difference I see is that you can stop thinking about the consequences but objectively they still exist whether you obsess over them or not."
Lets focus on that last bit - I think its important to understand that mindfulness can actually change biology to improve quality of life by decreasing the consequences (directly starting to reverse the consequences of MDMA/LTC related biology).
"Basically, how exactly can you stop worrying about the future when its the problems/symptoms in the present that are causing you to worry about the future. It seems really difficult unless you get rid of the symptoms."
Another good point to bring up - the answer is that the goal with mindfulness is to catch the "worry" thoughts as soon as they begin and let them flutter out, don't get caught up obsessing over these ruminating thoughts and let that worry thought stepping-stone into another worry/depressive thought, and return your attention to your breath/thoughtlessness before an hour of lost in thought rumination gets started.
If you can practice mindfulness enough, you'll become constantly vigilant, constantly with your attention on the breath except for when doing a task, and then very few of the depressive/worry thoughts will get started, and this will improve biology. Even if you're not having crystal clear "I feel horrible" voice-in-the-head thoughts, focusing your attention on the breath will help as well.
I hope that this answered some questions, as always feel free to ask anything. In summary, mindfulness isn't just good for ignoring the thoughts that are caused by the symptoms - sometimes the predisposition to these thoughts is not just caused by the symptoms that you feel (like HPPD visuals) but the biology itself is causing more worry/depressive thoughts (in other words, some other people could feel a very similar way but their brains wouldn't be as predisposed to rumination), and consciously directing energy away from the worry/depressive thoughts circuits will allow them to weaken and atrophy, and there are other neural changes that will result in better quality of life as well.
Thanks for bringing this up socrilus.
There are two practical components of mindfulness - concentrated meditations, maybe 2-3 sessions of 10-15 minutes a day, and then also as you progress with the concentrated sessions, begin to expand your mindfulness meditation out into the rest of your day, which is very important. It can be hard to expand it out to the rest of your day at first but as you gain practice with the concentrated sessions it will become easier and will eventually become habit. The first place to start would be to, at the end of a mindfulness session, start going about your day and see how long you can carry the mindfulness with you, and then try to catch yourself throughout the day when you are having negative thoughts or are lost in thought.
So mindfulness might actually play out like this: You're going about your day when you have a "Man I feel horrible" genre thought, then that single thought might generate more thoughts and before you know it you're lost in thought, or are at least distracted. The idea with mindfulness is that you begin to catch yourself earlier and earlier, before you're lost in thought. After a long time of practicing you might catch yourself at "Man I feel-" or even earlier.
But the important thing to understand is that as you practice mindfulness, your biology changes so that you will sustain the mindfulness mindset easier and easier. You won't have to exert the same level of concentration to be on guard against these thoughts or being lost in thought in the endgame of mindfulness, it will just be habitual and you won't have to think about it very much. Your biology will also change so that you have less of these thoughts in the first place.
"The only difference I see is that you can stop thinking about the consequences but objectively they still exist whether you obsess over them or not."
Lets focus on that last bit - I think its important to understand that mindfulness can actually change biology to improve quality of life by decreasing the consequences (directly starting to reverse the consequences of MDMA/LTC related biology).
"Basically, how exactly can you stop worrying about the future when its the problems/symptoms in the present that are causing you to worry about the future. It seems really difficult unless you get rid of the symptoms."
Another good point to bring up - the answer is that the goal with mindfulness is to catch the "worry" thoughts as soon as they begin and let them flutter out, don't get caught up obsessing over these ruminating thoughts and let that worry thought stepping-stone into another worry/depressive thought, and return your attention to your breath/thoughtlessness before an hour of lost in thought rumination gets started.
If you can practice mindfulness enough, you'll become constantly vigilant, constantly with your attention on the breath except for when doing a task, and then very few of the depressive/worry thoughts will get started, and this will improve biology. Even if you're not having crystal clear "I feel horrible" voice-in-the-head thoughts, focusing your attention on the breath will help as well.
I hope that this answered some questions, as always feel free to ask anything. In summary, mindfulness isn't just good for ignoring the thoughts that are caused by the symptoms - sometimes the predisposition to these thoughts is not just caused by the symptoms that you feel (like HPPD visuals) but the biology itself is causing more worry/depressive thoughts (in other words, some other people could feel a very similar way but their brains wouldn't be as predisposed to rumination), and consciously directing energy away from the worry/depressive thoughts circuits will allow them to weaken and atrophy, and there are other neural changes that will result in better quality of life as well.
nightElf
Bluelighter
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- Mar 13, 2015
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Clonazepan REALLY helped me back in the day. Very low dose (0.25 two times per day x 3 months, then 0.25 when going to sleep x 6 months, then used when needed)
Cotcha Yankinov
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How was withdrawal, if there was any?
Hey guys, I want to advise everyone again NOT to drink any coffee during recovery. I was at around 70 percent and I had 2-3 cups one morning and I think have severly delayed my recovery. I have basically been back at square 1 since, if not worse. I am 67 days in to recovery.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
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Hypersensitivity to caffeine is a hallmark of HPA axis dysregulation.
You didn't severely delay anything.
Find an MD that treats HPA axis dysregulation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17022948/
Maybe the ones who suffer from HPA axis dis regulation should try curcuma, it also has antidepressant effects and is a strong neuroprotective substance that promotes neuronal sprouting.
And if you read the other studies, it seems to have the same effect on neurogenesis as Antidepressants, but without the negative side effects. In my case it didn't help against DP/DR, but maybe my recovery would go slower without it.
Maybe the ones who suffer from HPA axis dis regulation should try curcuma, it also has antidepressant effects and is a strong neuroprotective substance that promotes neuronal sprouting.
And if you read the other studies, it seems to have the same effect on neurogenesis as Antidepressants, but without the negative side effects. In my case it didn't help against DP/DR, but maybe my recovery would go slower without it.
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Cotcha Yankinov
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I wouldn't buy into adrenal fatigue. There is a rarer medical condition but it is quite apparent.
I think phenomena of the brain are why LTC sufferers are having their issues unfortunately, and just as some people can go forward and recover spontaneously, people can also worsen - but don't think that you haven't retained any of your progress.
Coffee seems to be a common one. It set me back a ways too but I still got there with time.
I think phenomena of the brain are why LTC sufferers are having their issues unfortunately, and just as some people can go forward and recover spontaneously, people can also worsen - but don't think that you haven't retained any of your progress.
Coffee seems to be a common one. It set me back a ways too but I still got there with time.
I think that is a misnomer and the HPA dysfunction stuff shugenja mentioned earlier is what some erroneously call adrenal fatigue. I first read about the misconception here while researching this https://selfhacked.com/2014/11/23/adrenal-fatigue/
It is indeed *technically* a phenomenon of the brain. I think people are just lazy to use the real term every time since it sounds so complicated. What do you think?
Cotcha Yankinov
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Just to clarify what I was referring to when I was calling BS - just an issue with the adrenal glands and cortisol, the same issue you would encounter when withdrawing from corticosteroids.
But I don't believe the spectrum of issues in an LTC are probably caused by HPA dysfunction that specifically results in hormonal disturbances. I think an LTC is more primarily "neural". Yes more solely hormones could be playing a minor role in some people, but the core of an LTC is probably something different. Hormonal disturbance doesn't cause HPPD.
If underactivity of the orexin system is suspected in non cortisol deficit forms of "adrenal fatigue" then we shouldn't be seeing such severe insomnia in some LTC sufferers if they had the same issue (though you might argue that we shouldn't generalize based off of narcolepsy).
But even if strange effects on the orexin system were at play, then an orexin antagonist (Suvoxerant/Belsomra) would be good to experiment with.
It is certainly more than possible the hypothalamus is involved though, I think the main way that I would have to guess would be via oxytocin because MDMA mediates a lot of it's effects through oxytocin but that's just me spewing info.
But I don't believe the spectrum of issues in an LTC are probably caused by HPA dysfunction that specifically results in hormonal disturbances. I think an LTC is more primarily "neural". Yes more solely hormones could be playing a minor role in some people, but the core of an LTC is probably something different. Hormonal disturbance doesn't cause HPPD.
If underactivity of the orexin system is suspected in non cortisol deficit forms of "adrenal fatigue" then we shouldn't be seeing such severe insomnia in some LTC sufferers if they had the same issue (though you might argue that we shouldn't generalize based off of narcolepsy).
But even if strange effects on the orexin system were at play, then an orexin antagonist (Suvoxerant/Belsomra) would be good to experiment with.
It is certainly more than possible the hypothalamus is involved though, I think the main way that I would have to guess would be via oxytocin because MDMA mediates a lot of it's effects through oxytocin but that's just me spewing info.
I didn't take the mirtazapine for 4 nights, and last night I tried 1g of curcumin with black pepper, and it did not go well. Nausea, shaking, overactive bowels. I eventually fell asleep for 4 hours but I don't feel great this AM. Won't be taking that again. I'm fact I'm done with all supplements except a little fish oil. Our brains are so sensitive I think healthy eating and living is the way to go.
Thats strange, I never experienced such reactions to curcumin. Maybe you should try a golden milk recipe if you want to give it another try.
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