Hey Somedud.
Thank you for being honest with everyone about your struggle.
It feels like it will NEVER end, doesn't it?
I must say, for an 'unhuman' creature - you are sure able to write clearly and concisely.
But I know that this is a small fraction of your life right now.
We have not been in constant contact like we used to, but I try to check in with several of my old BL buddies every month.
I have spent a lot less time on BL in the last two months.
This is due to life, in part.
But there is also a lack of interest and drive.
I just don't care some days.
Some days I cannot write like I used to.
It used to drive me absolutely MAD when this happened.
The strangest thing - I stopped caring.
I have literally gotten to the point where I can walk away from a post in progress and not finish it for DAYS.
In some ways this is an improvement - a practice in flexibility.
In other ways it is a degradation - a loss of will.
I too have made statements that I was 'fading' away, but I allude to studies suggesting a 'degenerative' process.
Former MDMA users have exhibited a loss of DAT, or dopamine transporter protein, in the nigrostriatal pathway.
This is seen in other 'degenerative' disorders such as Parkinson's.
Excess serotonin in this region is likely responsible, as it directly inhibits dopamine neurons.
There is known to be a substantial flexibility, as movement disorders require a great loss of dopamine before symptoms begin.
But finding this information, thinking about it, writing about it - is my way of saying what Somedud is saying.
It is my way of expressing loss of faith.
I could also mention that the hippocampus is likely shrinking in volume.
And that HPA axis function will never return to baseline...
I could go on...
But then I remember that I don't care as much anymore.
Is this improvement?
Or degradation?
I think both.
There was a time when Somedud claimed 90% improvement when he was taking Lexapro.
Although this effect was transient, meaning he retracted from this 'cured' stage within weeks....
The statement in itself is revealing.
I, too, had a 'eureka' moment - a night of being 'cured'.
I took 1600mg of Piracetam, 500mg of Acetyl l-carnatine, and 5mg vinpocetine.
After about 2-3 very stressful hours...very unpleasant...I suddenly felt myself RISE FROM THE DEAD.
There is no other word to describe it other than a
resurrection.
It lasted about 4 hours, too.
Not only did I write more like I used to, but EVERYTHING felt like it used to.
When I realized how substantial the change was, I began feeling emotions that I hadn't felt in about 8 months.
There was a lot of joy. Tears of joy. Intense happiness - life had meaning again.
Feelings like regret, guilt, shame over what happened also occurred.
These feelings are unique, because they exist as an interaction between the limbic system and our HIGHEST cognitive center - the PFC.
Intense feelings of GUILT have been documented in cases of MDMA 'injury'.
Psychiatrists have documented this in many former MDMA users with anxiety - GUILT is a common feature in the beginning.
By 6 months it goes away.
For some reason, the brain exerts these powerful emotions during the first few months of 'recovery'.
Or 're-wiring'.
Then it stops.
Why then would taking the perfect combination of supplements cause this to reoccur?
Why would Somedud proclaim to feel NORMAL, to the point of being AMUSED at his former status, simply due to an SSRI?
And why are these feelings transient for both of us?
I never did achieve that perfect combo again, in fact trying to only made me go CRAZY.
I think the fact that it happened in the first place is VERY important.
It is certainly worth analysis.
In my case, the ALCAR increases dopamine in the Nucleus Acumbens shell.
The NA is a destination point for the meso-limbic reward pathway.
At the other end of this pathway, Piracetam increases both dopamine and serotonin in the PFC.
And Vinpocetine increases the brain's utilization of ATP, the cellular fuel source.
How these combine into a perfect storm is unknown, but it appears that the meso-limbic reward circuitry is central to its effectiveness.
For Somedud, the same thing is true.
Lexapro inhibits the re-uptake of serotonin, substantially increasing it in the PFC and frontal lobes.
While serotonin inhibits dopamine in all the other dopamine pathways, this is not so in the meso-limbic.
By altering the flow of serotonin in his brain, it literally targeted the dopamine into the higher brain.
When the dopamine finally reaches the highest point, it flows down the meso-limbic pathway back to the NA.
This giant loop is very important.
It not only plays a role in pleasure and addiction, it seems to be CRITICAL to a number of different cognitive functions.
Without this relay of dopamine from the lower brain to the higher, and back down...
Life is empty.
Meaningless.
Words cannot express what it feels like.
But they can try.
Here is an analogy.
Women that have severe pre-menstrual psychosis can relate.
The surge of serotonin activity in the uterus literally causes a dopamine blockade in the higher brain.
If you have never met a woman with this problem, consider yourself fortunate.
But even a 'healthy' woman has an idea about what we are talking about.
They just appear to feel 'bored' at first.
There is a lack of joy in general, accompanied by a
blank vacant stare.
They stare into the distance and their voice becomes flat.
No matter what they do, it doesn't seem to let up.
The boredom grows into unhappiness.
This becomes a snowball that keeps getting bigger and bigger.
Serotonin is blocking SO much dopamine that control of emotions is becoming impossible.
True anger begins.
But it isn't over yet...
No - this is a long process.
Anger doesn't even begin to describe the growing despair.
She finds herself examining the events in her life, searching for a cause of all this unhappiness.
With such vigilance, reasons are found.
Suddenly the place she lives, the laundry that isn't folded, the lawn that isn't mowed, the dishes that aren't cleaned, the neighbors kids that won't shut the FUCK UP!!!
That BITCH at work!
The list keeps going.
Boredom and grayness has evolved into strong discontent for many facets of life.
Then it becomes anger and helplessness.
Perhaps blinding rage!
The endocrine system is out of control!
There is a tipping point.
She may lash out at loved ones....break or smash some things around the house.
Everything comes to a climax.
Then BAM - the bleeding begins.
Quite literally, the dam breaks.
Some women describe the beginning of their periods as a 'gush'.
They feel relief immediately, too.
Suddenly the 3 days of build-up prior to this is easily forgotten.
While all tension is not really gone - something is substantially different.
The events in her life that were the source of AGONY just before, are suddenly on the back burner.
In fact, she is unlikely to remember that she just made life HELL for those around her.
She is oblivious to the extent of the change.
And in 4 weeks, she will do it all over again.
No, my wife isn't quite this bad.
Neither is my mom or the FOUR sisters I grew up with.
But it should be clear that I have LOTS of experience with women.
And interestingly they provide us with a model of serotonin fluctuation and dopamine blockade.
Most women do not qualify as really psychotic. According to wiki - its 3-8% of women.
Here is a decent link -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0004461/
SSRIs can be used very effectively in these women, even in very brief doses!
This suggests that a true dopamine blockade is occurring.
When dopamine is blocked in the frontal lobes, it builds up in the limbic system.
The amygdala really doesn't like this.
In addition to the fact that short-term SSRI use can be effective for PMDD...
It is also known that the shape of a woman's hippocampus is altered during this process.
This is a limbic structure directly involved in the process of short-term memory processing.
It also encodes short-term memories into long-term ones for storage.
This may be one of the reason's that life events and personal circumstances can be viewed in such NEGATIVE light.
The memory circuit is literally malfunctioning in these women, and they cannot REMEMBER how things really are.
They become CONVINCED that they have ALWAYS felt this pissed off - with whatever they are obsessing over.
Without this malfunction of memory, I don't think the endocrine system is capable of reaching that 'tipping' point.
The brain literally has to trick itself.
It is understood that serotonin contracts the smooth muscle of the intestines.
This is where most of it is located.
But the uterus is also a very large organ and requires a good amount of serotonin activity to contract.
Most women have a change in mood, including anxiety during the premenstrual phase.
Once bleeding begins, relief is experienced quickly.
But a minority of women have crippling, even dangerous levels of anxiety.
The hippocampus malfunctions, or at least is altered visibly.
And the HPA axis goes haywire!
On top of all of this, women have LESS serotonin than men.
Former MDMA users have shown signs of lower serotonin levels, even after long-term abstinence.
Their hippocampus may be 10% smaller than age-matched peers.
And the HPA response to future serotonin agonists can be measurably reduced.
For at least 3 years.
On top of all this, some of them show signs of degeneration of striatal dopamine neurons - a sign of ONGOING dopamine blockade.
Somedud - you and I are essentially PMSing EVERY DAY.
Whether or not we end up with smaller hippocampus or striatal dopamine loss, is not known to be important.
Perhaps these events MUST occur.
No - they don't sound good...
After all, serotonin axons are crawling their way around our brains - wreaking havoc on dopamine transmission.
It isn't very surprising to me that this could cause 'degeneration'.
Hell - most women couldn't go on...they couldn't LIVE the rest of their lives if everyday were a PMS day!
We are surviving a process so torturous that only 3-8% of women can REALLY relate.
IBS patients probably can - some of them have EXTREME anxiety that accompanies the inflammation in their intestines.
Women tend to have the most severe psychosis in IBS, by the way.
Severe depression often involves some level of altered intestinal motility.
And psychotic disorders certainly do, with schizophrenics often refusing to eat - even becoming convinced that their food is poisoned.
Eating disorders (anorexia) cause excruciating emotional suffering - forcing them to eat can cause uncontrollable crying or even suicide attempts!
Serotonin is implicated in migraines, which also strike women more often than men.
Cluster-headaches are much more severe - but can also blame serotonin for the cause.
Here is a great clip that shows the INTENSE suffering of these people -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzpcPeoPnW0
LSD, a 5-HT2 agonist, has been shown to be remarkably effective for people suffering cluster headaches.
Not a cure, but a VERY effective treatment.
MDMA 'toxicity'.
Premenstrual dishporic disorder.
Irritable-bowel syndrome.
Severe depression and psychosis.
Schizophrenia.
Anorexia.
Migraines and Cluster headaches.
This is just what I can recall at the moment.
All of these are examples of the importance of SEROTONIN.
And the PRIMARY function of serotonin is DIGESTION.
The neurotransmitter that contracts smooth muscle throughout the body is so incredibly important, that a dysfunction can lead to SEVERE, CRIPPLING, LIFE-DESTROYING, SOUL-ERASING PAIN.
People KILL themselves in each of these disorders.
Suicide is a real option for those who see no end in sight.
Watch that Youtube video again, and ask yourself how long you would be willing to live like THAT.
People on BL cannot imagine the emotional suffering you endure Somedud.
They just.
Don't.
Get it.
MDMA is a drug that utilizes the serotonin network - the brain-gut circuitry.
The connection between your gut and your brain is SO complex that it can cause elation and euphoria (for a few hours) or ego-death, anxiety, and crippling depression (for years).
You have asked me for my opinion many times.
You truly want to believe the words of your therapist - you just have PTSD.
Ok...
What if PTSD also involves serotonin?
I have no desire to increase your despair, my friend.
As I have just shown - I understand what you are going through.
But you want my opinion on what is happening to us.
This is the simplified theory I came to about 8 months ago.
I have detailed it many times before, but I am doing it again.
While lacking in specificity - the 'simple' answer is this:
Our intestines are Re-Wiring our brains.
That is the most I can boil it down.
That is the answer.
Also important - the research CLEARLY shows a resolution of anxiety within 2 years for the MAJORITY of MDMA users suffering from 'clinical' symptoms.
No matter WHAT is happening with your serotonin network or dopamine blockade, loss of hippocampus volume or DAT and SERT expression...
No matter WHAT the specifics are - the important thing is that it WILL stop.
If former MDMA users, even the ones that suffer, didn't improve - we would know.
Did you know that many IBS patients find their way to freedom with healthy lifestyle?
Did you know that even some schizophrenics reach this too?
I have read that 20% of schizophrenics experience life-long remission with treatment.
But very old research from before powerful anti-psychotics existed suggest that 60% recover!
Have you ever met a person that used to be anorexic?
They still tend to be picky eaters....but they LIVE.
You are only at 15 months of recovery.
That is NOT enough.
While some BLers have said there is a 'transition' at the one year mark, others have claimed that it never 'really goes away'.
I have read VERY long-term accounts that suggest it takes 5 years or more.
And my experience with former SSRI users suggest that this makes a LOT of sense.
The ones with MAJOR problems take at LEAST 2 years.
Taking SSRIs was a bad idea.
I warned you against it very strongly, even though I was interested to see the outcome.
Rolling at 8 months into recovery was also VERY unwise.
But I am proud of you for learning from these mistakes.
You haven't rolled again since.
And you stopped the SSRIs.
Good.
Fucking.
Job.
Way to go Somedud.
In these decisions you showed a level of maturity and wisdom that is admirable.
Few can relate to your suffering, but those that do know that you have had to be VERY strong.
I cannot IMAGINE going through a breakup with a GF and being KICKED in the HEAD, on top of the MDMA.
The fact that you are still here, waiting for it to end is impressive.
60% improvement?
Can you remember when it was less?
Would you at least say that you are stable at 60% now?
I am only at 12 months myself.
And I have cycled on and off Piracetam probably SIX times this year.
At certain times, I would have said I was 80-90% recovered.
Now, without Piracetam....60-70% sounds more reasonable.
If it makes you feel ANY better, I am still suffering too.
There are days when my anger shows in my posts.
I just cannot control it.
I am sick of arrogant assholes like Andronicus MAKING FUN OF US.
And demanding clear and perfect research to back up the idea that MDMA 'damages' the brain!
He should read this goddamn post and try arguing with me again.
Other days I just don't care anymore.
I, too, feel the slipping of my will power...the 'fading' away.
But I still chose to believe that it is partially transient.
Do you understand what I'm saying?
When this all began, the cycle of suffering and relief was SO fast.
5 days of crippling agony, followed by 2 days of meaningful relief.
I still remember some of those 'relief' days I felt completely 100% normal.
Now, the cycles are STREEEEEEEEETCHED out.
The suffering is much quieter, much more subtle.
But it can take WEEKS before I get PISSED and start bleeding!
Yes, I said bleeding.
It is such a relief when it happens.
The soul bleeds, at least.
I think the final 'cycle' of suffering is going to stretch LONG into our futures.
It is going to fade into 'normal'.
I will call it the 'Great Forgetting' in one of my future posts.
You just wait.
Have you tried the 'rage therapy' I so often recommended in the past.
I find it less necessary, but I still do it from time to time.
You should try to work yourself up and BREAK something.
And work out as hard as you can.
No matter how much 'degeneration' or 'fading' away is happening, this will help.
It will really help.
If you are not working out at least 10-20 minutes per day, 5 days a week - you are MISSING out on real relief.
It sprouts more serotonin axons and replaces some of those lost cells in the hippocampus, goddamit!
I guess I'm done.
For now.
Good luck, my friend.
And don't give up.
Not for at least another 12 months.
Deal?
FBC
I just actually posted about that in the thread "MDMA abuse recovery stories"
.
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