MDMA made in a toilet!

[phase_dancer]

I appreciate your viewpoint Jordan`, however, I tend to feel that while this may act as a short-med term deterrent for uneducated or would be users, the fact is, many users - arguably those most in need of intervention - know enough to identify it as a very unlikely reality. And as indicated earlier in the thread, even if it is believed, the message may be lost on the many who have snorted lines in a toilet, or already accept that illicit drugs are often made in dirty environments.

My argument for putting out truthful ads is that you're less likely to produce a subset of users who shun away altogether from any and all future ads. But from experience, to reach a decent proportion of these users requires a consistent, non-sensationalized approach, and in this case that means regular, believable ads, not some sort of attempted high impact, short duration thing which essentially is the governments way of showing the masses they are addressing the problem.

For the more knowledgeable user and the people they influence, "overall demand reduction" is rarely achieved through lies. This users group, if it is affected are more likely to instead to switch to something they perceive as being made in a cleaner environment, such as legal highs, RCs etc.

As for the speeding ads; maybe they did have an impact, but then again, the small dick perception is perhaps not so far from the truth

 

[Jordan`]

That's what I said in my post -

A human being with a preconceived disposition on drugs be it negative or positive will most likely look at this advertisement and be turned off or not respond at all, the latter being the most likely reaction of an illicit drug user with a minority actually being affected by the advert.

The advertisement works for the target demographic being the uninformed adolescent. It doesn't really address current "informed" drug users, they are already rebelling against authority and would not respond to the ad as I stated, it is possible that a minority will acknowledge the ad however.

 

[phase_dancer]

Sorry, I missed that part of your post.

I guess, I just feel the money spent could have been put to much better use, and essentially reached more in real need of intervention. In playing the devil's advocate, I'd say the peer pressure should never be underestimated. The "in the know" crew traditionally have far greater influence over the ignorant or misinformed than the other way round.

 

[cosdog]

I'd have to agree with Jordan

 

[Jordan`]

Sorry, I missed that part of your post.

I guess, I just feel the money spent could have been put to much better use, and essentially reached more in real need of intervention. In playing the devil's advocate, I'd say the peer pressure should never be underestimated. The "in the know" crew traditionally have far greater influence over the ignorant or misinformed than the other way round.

True. I think the ads are only a temporary solution. Addressing Australia's bizarre substance culture which is underpinned by peer pressure and popularity would definitely be a more viable study or probable solution.

From what I see when I go out, young people tend to bring a more violent and assured character to the surface. In order to keep up this appearance they're willing to let their morals slide which in effect can lead them to excessive alcohol consumption, illicit drugs and violence. This is obviously a very generalised anecdote but the essence is pretty clear.

Drugs like MDMA (I use that term very loosely) which are popular in the club scene won't go away and there are always alternatives. I'm not sure what road the government want to take in the future but it always seems to be the easier and more reliable method of propagandistic advertising which is effective in the short term with respect to the agenda but for the future I can only see the problem reoccurring again and again.

 

[paddy1]

Well it may not be made in toilet, but that doesn't mean its made in good conditions - when indeed it is made.

The bottom line is that no one in Australia is cooking at the moment (as in MDMA). Partly its because the Australian Federal Police assisted Cambodian Police in burning off loads and loads of sassafras crops and extracts. This has resulted in a world wide shortage as cambodia or saferole is like columbia for cocaine - one of the few places it is grown but supplies most of the world!

In Europe there has been a clamp down on the availability of a few processing chemicals needed for reactions and purificaiton making things hard there too.

So as most of your are well aware, the pills contain no MDMA. If they do, it means someone got enough to make 20,000 pills and, instead, made 100,000 knowing that they would sell. Now its all DXM, BZP and that crap, mixed wiht (often) really poor quality speed and god knows what else.

The three big changes that have occurred in the last twelve months that really pissed me off are:

1) Make a good pill that is (eg) white and has an (eg) mickey mouse logo. Then four weeks later, release a light grey pill with a mickey mouse logo that is not as strong. Then eight weeks later release a light but very slightly pink'ish pill with mickey mouse logo that's almost non-active. It's clear what they mannufacturers are doing. They are maximising volume by getting a buzz out about a 'light coloured mickey mouse' and then pumping substandard ones that are impossible to distinguish in a nightclub.

2) "Caps" - eventually when the quality got really bad, a lot of people said 'stay away from the orange stars' or the 'pink cats' or the 'yellow merceded.' Even dealers buying quantity would turn down their suppliers if they had "yellow mercedes' or whatever. This got back to the boys at the top, so they changed their game and started capping everything so it would not be as easily idenifiable. And the consequences were obvious - most caps were terrible, a few were good but it impossible to tell and volume of sales probably lept back up as a result.

3) Nasty pill and caps emerged. Some of these were terrible! One I had was slightly yellow and probably picked me up a little, but didn't do much. The next day, I was so down and depressed that it felt like i had taken 5 of the strongest pills in history the previous night. What they hell was that about?

Some made you sleepy, some made you feel a bit speed edgy but not happy, some made you feel sick and kinda hallucinate a bit, ... it was just a mixed bag and god knows what was really in it or how it was made.

Until cambodia starts supplying the saferole again, it will be crap. This could be one drug that law enforcement finally conquered.

Pity. I hate speed, and i don't care much for coke. I just want that unique MDMA "magic" again.

 

[MazDan]

My argument for putting out truthful ads is that you're less likely to produce a subset of users who shun away altogether from any and all future ads. But from experience, to reach a decent proportion of these users requires a consistent, non-sensationalized approach, and in this case that means regular, believable ads, not some sort of attempted high impact, short duration thing which essentially is the governments way of showing the masses they are addressing the problem.

For the more knowledgeable user and the people they influence, "overall demand reduction" is rarely achieved through lies. This users group, if it is affected are more likely to instead to switch to something they perceive as being made in a cleaner environment, such as legal highs, RCs etc.

I like the way your thinking and yes you are spot on correct although personally I think balance is probably of greater value.

I dont mind the shock tactic, fact is it works but i also agree that some good quality straight to the point factual information would be good as well.

Specially if done from a Harm Minimisation point of view.

 

[Sameria]

I'd love to see some government figures of how much is spent on prohibition.

That would be a nice shoct tactic, albeit for our side :D

 

[De quincy]

I think this sort of add has its limited merit; based on the notion that never let a good story get in the way of the truth. These ads are specifically targeted at the individual in the non drug using market, to re-enforce their commitment to not pick up drug using behaviour. I.e. non drug using young people or for that mater anyone who hasn’t dabbled in illicit drug use, in this case; ecstasy, regardless that worldwide, the substance is virtually nonexistent within popular drug using circles anyway. This sort of media re-enforces the non-drug users resolve, within their current thinking, to not use. It effectively reinforces one’s resolve not to try something. Although this is such a transient process where best laid intentions will always be broken for a multitude of reasons, the facts are, people will experiment with drugs and other so called risky behaviours, regardless of the perceived risk or not . The problem is, to the wider drug using community these ads are bullshit, they don’t cater to the broader community of people who will be testing the boundaries and considering all sorts of perceived risky behaviours; including drug use. To the broader risk taker, ecstasy in a toilet doesn’t mean shit. To the ecstasy user, as close as the toilet gets to ecstasy is plugging and that still comes through with the goods despite the erky angst for some people, after all it's a means to an ends or should i say an end to a means ;0
These broad mass media campaigns will always be limited in their appeal and effectiveness because they typically miss the mark.

 

[thestudent14]

I think this sort of add has its limited merit; based on the notion that never let a good story get in the way of the truth. These ads are specifically targeted at the individual in the non drug using market, to re-enforce their commitment to not pick up drug using behaviour. I.e. non drug using young people or for that mater anyone who hasn’t dabbled in illicit drug use, in this case; ecstasy, regardless that worldwide, the substance is virtually nonexistent within popular drug using circles anyway. This sort of media re-enforces the non-drug users resolve, within their current thinking, to not use. It effectively reinforces one’s resolve not to try something. Although this is such a transient process where best laid intentions will always be broken for a multitude of reasons, the facts are, people will experiment with drugs and other so called risky behaviours, regardless of the perceived risk or not . The problem is, to the wider drug using community these ads are bullshit, they don’t cater to the broader community of people who will be testing the boundaries and considering all sorts of perceived risky behaviours; including drug use. To the broader risk taker, ecstasy in a toilet doesn’t mean shit. To the ecstasy user, as close as the toilet gets to ecstasy is plugging and that still comes through with the goods despite the erky angst for some people, after all it's a means to an ends or should i say an end to a means ;0
These broad mass media campaigns will always be limited in their appeal and effectiveness because they typically miss the mark.

Well said, I'd also like to point out that with such heavy scare campaigns, If someone inexperienced does try ecstasy after seeing so much bullshit the media shows. Then the media loses so much of it's credability straight away.

And then the person wish's to try more drugs, This is pretty much exactly what I did (It's been stated before in the cycles of use/abuse thread).

At this point alot might think, well he was gonna try them anyway so the add has still worked for the people it did deter. However when they lose so much credability thats when that one person shows his friends, and the affect does snowball.

I would love to see the media/government take an honest approach, sadly I don't think this will happen any time soon, because they are so convinced that the public is naive' and stupid.

This approach would've had a far greater chance of working 20 years ago. But these days everyone can find out more information so easily, I think the government NEEDS to change their game plan because of how easy they are to discredit.

As far as the link provided
http://www.drugs.health.gov.au/internet/drugs/publishing.nsf/Content/ecstasy

Look what they had to say the affects of ecstasy are.
he signs and symptoms of using Ecstasy can include:

* Increased blood pressure and pulse rate
* Dilated pupils
* Raised body temperature
* Sweating
* Loss of appetite
* Jaw clenching
* Nausea
* Nervousness
* Confusion
* Teeth grinding
* Vomiting
* Hallucinations
* Tremors
* Insomnia
* Panic
* Visual distortions
The consequences of using Ecstasy may include:

* Chronic sleep problems
* Cracked teeth through grinding
* High blood pressure
* Dehydration
* Anxiety
* Decreased emotional control
* Lethargy
* Severe depression
* Memory impairment
* Nerve cell damage
* Serotonin syndrome
* Death from heart failure
* Rhabdomyolysis – over heating to the point of organs liquefying

I'd like to point out, that their is no mention of empathy, love and euphoria mentioned. They also make good things sound bad. Also I've never heard of this happening from ecstasy "Rhabdomyolysis – over heating to the point of organs liquefying" I imagine this would only be possible from PMA and even that would be a stretch.

If it has happened, I would very much appreciate a link to the article. It sounds interesting.

 

[thestudent14]

1) Make a good pill that is (eg) white and has an (eg) mickey mouse logo. Then four weeks later, release a light grey pill with a mickey mouse logo that is not as strong. Then eight weeks later release a light but very slightly pink'ish pill with mickey mouse logo that's almost non-active. It's clear what they mannufacturers are doing. They are maximising volume by getting a buzz out about a 'light coloured mickey mouse' and then pumping substandard ones that are impossible to distinguish in a nightclub.

Top first post dude, You should also be noted how quickly people are to make copycat pills.

You said NO one in Australia is cooking at the moment, thats not true. The maker of the Blue T Stars and Scorpions hasn't been busted. Just waiting for the oppurtune moment.

As far as the mickey mouses are concerned. The first few batch's were better then the later ones. However many of the later batch's were copy cat batch's not from the same cook. That cook does a medium dose of MDEA, they also are yet to be busted. But they would've made a killing in the last two years. The mickeymouses ruled the pill world for a good few months.



I don't wanna de-rail the thread, but could someone tell em why it's so much harder to make MDMA rather then MDA/MDEA. It's far more common these days, and if someone could enlighten me that would be super.

 

[thestudent14]

1) Make a good pill that is (eg) white and has an (eg) mickey mouse logo. Then four weeks later, release a light grey pill with a mickey mouse logo that is not as strong. Then eight weeks later release a light but very slightly pink'ish pill with mickey mouse logo that's almost non-active. It's clear what they mannufacturers are doing. They are maximising volume by getting a buzz out about a 'light coloured mickey mouse' and then pumping substandard ones that are impossible to distinguish in a nightclub.

Top first post dude, You should also be noted how quickly people are to make copycat pills.

You said NO one in Australia is cooking at the moment, thats not true. The maker of the Blue T Stars and Scorpions hasn't been busted. Just waiting for the oppurtune moment.

As far as the mickey mouses are concerned. The first few batch's were better then the later ones. However many of the later batch's were copy cat batch's not from the same cook. That cook does a medium dose of MDEA, they also are yet to be busted. But they would've made a killing in the last two years. The mickeymouses ruled the pill world for a good few months.



I don't wanna de-rail the thread, but could someone tell em why it's so much harder to make MDMA rather then MDA/MDEA. It's far more common these days, and if someone could enlighten me that would be super.

 

[WitchfinderGeneral]

I can see the idea of the ad. It shocks the anti-drugs crowd, and reaffirms how anti-drugs they are. However, I can't see too many new people being turned against drugs, especially those who already use them. I think our tax money can be spent on more useful things than ads which essentially preach to the already converted.

Forgot to mention the lack of facts etc.

 

[Sustanon]

I don't wanna de-rail the thread, but could someone tell em why it's so much harder to make MDMA rather then MDA/MDEA. It's far more common these days, and if someone could enlighten me that would be super.

MDMA is made from MDA by converting it. Dont want to go into too much synth discussion here tho. Its easier to obtain the precursors for MDA as well.

 

[2sleepy]

The ad reconfirms my belief, the major parties enjoy peddling misinformation
while spending millions of tax on shit advertising. Crap sells.

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ Amen to that.

 

[thestudent14]

MDMA is made from MDA by converting it. Dont want to go into too much synth discussion here tho. Its easier to obtain the precursors for MDA as well.

Thanks for that, I remember reading that awhile ago actually. I might read over it all again soon when I'm not too busy with all my studies =(

 

[paddy1]

You said NO one in Australia is cooking at the moment, thats not true. The maker of the Blue T Stars and Scorpions hasn't been busted. Just waiting for the oppurtune moment.

As far as the mickey mouses are concerned. The first few batch's were better then the later ones. However many of the later batch's were copy cat batch's not from the same cook. That cook does a medium dose of MDEA, they also are yet to be busted. But they would've made a killing in the last two years. The mickeymouses ruled the pill world for a good few months.

I don't wanna de-rail the thread, but could someone tell em why it's so much harder to make MDMA rather then MDA/MDEA. It's far more common these days, and if someone could enlighten me that would be super.

Hi Mate

I had the blue T-stars and the scorpions too - they were good. I would not say that either were amongst the best pills i've ever had, but they definately did the job. As for the Mickey Mouse, the first lot i came across were light with a vague tinge of green - and they seemed good as well. However the orange'ish and pink'ish ones were poor.

The only real "pill" i've had in the last 18 months in Australia has been the pink double-pressed cherry. That has proper mdma and a good dose - perhaps 100+ mg. I'd say the T-stars and scops were about 60mg.

In any case, interesting about the guys who made the T-stars and Scorp (that they haven't been busted). That being the case, I doubt whether they're waiting for the right moment. Either their precursor suppliers ran out or they've been helping produce some of the average stuff floating about with the limited precursors they have. Given the volume they could unload in the current conditions, I don't think they'd be sitting back waiting for their moment. Not saying you're wrong, just saying your sources may not being told the whole truth!

One thing that is annoying is the fact that as the pills get worse, it'll be easy for people to start unloading loads of bickies at 40mg/pill. Everyone is getting so used to inactive and slightly active stuff, that suddenly 40 will feel like a supreme high. I'd say that in the hayday of 1996-2003, they contained 90 - 130. But i don't think this is being deliberately setup. I think there's just a lack of precursors available.

As for the subsequent mickeys being copycats, do you mean that they borrowed or sold the logo press to other cooks?

Why is MDMA harder to make? - Very good question

MDEA AND MDMA take nearly the same amount of effort to produce. MDEA is fractionally easier, but the difference almost negligable. So why do they do it?

Methylamine is required in the manufacturing of MDMA. Unfortunately, this is now very difficult to obtain without arousing suspicion. So instead, they use ethylamine at the point where they would have used methylamine and the result in MDEA. It sucks ....

MDA is different. When manufacturing MDMA, the very very brief and simply flow chart would be:

Saffrole -> isosafrole -> MDP2P -> ..... -> MDMA

One of the processes in the " .... " part above is making MDA. From there, you can produce MDMA from MDA via N-formyl-MDA. This has led many to believe that MDA is like 80% of the way to MDMA and rather than going to the extra trouble, they just produce MDA. This is false. Basically because, if you can get to MDP2P, you can make MDMA without needing to produce MDA along the way.

These days, MDA is usually made because it can be made from piperonal rather than safrole. Piperonal is easier to obtain and its not complicated to synthesise beta-nitroisosafrole using it. From there, a cook can do many different things to convert to MDA. However, as they have chosen a more simple route to make MDA, they probably won't go to the extra effort of converting that product to MDMA. However this very last point is a bit of a guess/generalisation and it may be that MDA->MDMA chemicals are hard to get without arousing suspicion.

In the days when chemicals were more freely available and cooks took pride in experimenting with different combinations..etc... the 'lovey' pills were probably a bit MDMA and a bit MDA.

 

[thestudent14]

Top post again paddy.

And I'd say your probably right, my sources probably don't know the whole story. I'm getting some brown cherries in the next couple of weeks, hoping they have anything on the double-pressed cherry that many people spoke about. Going through a new source so I will just have to wait and see. And I've only had a couple of pills I would consider decent in the last 18months.

Although I don't have them all that often because I simply don't wanna spend so much cash on something that isn't worth my while.

So how come they don't track down on ethylamine aswell as methlyamine?
Surely they try to track down on both, is ethylamine used in more pharmaceutical products making it more readily available?

 

[paddy1]

Howdy,

Well I once had a rare find in a dealer. He never sold anything that wasn't really good. Yeah yeah yeah... we've all heard that. But he was so committed to his "policy" that he sometimes didn't have anything for 3 weeks here and 4 weeks there, passing up the crap and waiting for the goods. Last time I saw him, he told me that he hasn't sold a pill since July 2009. Worse still he was one of the dealers who always had something different to the mainstream, but was always a head above the rest. So goes to show that its hard to get anything worthwhile at all now, hence the movement towards coke (which I don't mind, but think is horrendously overpriced for what it is and heavily cut in this country!

Good luck with the brown cherries. Let me know if they turn out well. I got some caps a few months ago that were "ok." They had a real MDMA smell and certainly did the trick, but you really needed to take three pretty close together and because there was speed mixed in, you ended getting into a real speedy mash with tense jaw just as the MDMA side was taking effect. Probably like 25mg/cap in those, but that was good in the current environment.

To tell you the truth, I have been off pills for two months now. The last two times I had them, the first did nothing except keep me awake with a yuky speed edge and the second was pure DXM and I thought it made me feed horrible. Just going to save my money, time and health, and wait for the goods to re-emerge, if they ever do.

If you want a funny sideline - I used to go to bush raves with an english mate who has been partying since the early 1990s. He said that in the mid 1990s, one pill gave you about 4 hours of intense rushing lovey goodness followed by 10 hours of hightened peaking. Pills were about 30 pound (in london) but two was plenty and three would be the absolute maximum for the weekend, and expect to still be bouncy and happy on Monday. That's compared to people who now go out and take 5 in 9 hours just to see if something gets them a bit happy.

How things have changed....

To answer your questions, I think ethylamine is used by ameteur photographers to develop photographs or something like that. An outright ban on availability would be a bit difficult.

That said, they have some vague restrictions on the sale of ethylamine and large sales of ethylamine to private individuals may be detected. Combine this with the fact that MDEA is not as desirable as MDMA, ethylamine is obtainable by well connected crims.

Methylamine has limited uses aside from manufacturing drugs (legal and illegal). In all honesty, I think you'd need to either manufacturer it yourself or you would need to have a contact inside a pharmaceutical company.