MDMA impurities

[slopoke]

Well recently there has been some yummy, yummy MDMA going round these 'ere parts.

My question is regarding impurities, MDMA.hcl should really be white but most i have seen varys from cream (seems best to me) to light pink to REALLY pink/almost red (meh, some dealer said it was made in red wine bottle... mong )

I don't know if these impurities are in any amount to cause any toxicity issues but i'd appreciate the input from some of the finer BL minds.

I did a lil search and found some impurity information on erowid:

(from al/hg reductive amination)
Original erowid link

No. Compound M.W.
1 1,2-(Methylenedioxy)-4-methylbenzene 136
2 3,4-(Methylenedioxy)benzaldehyde 150
3 Safrole 162
4 Isosafrole 162
5 1,2-(Methylenedioxy)-4-propylbenzene 164
6 3,4-(Methylenedioxy)phenylpropanone 178
7 1,2-Dimethoxy-4-propenylbenzene 178
8 MDA 179
9 1-(3,4-Methylenedioxy)phenylpropanol-2 180
10 1,2-(Methylenedioxy)-
4-(2-N-methyliminopropyl)benzene 191
11 MDMA 193
12 N,N-dimethyl-(1,2-methylenedioxy)-
4-(2-aminopropyl)benzene 207
13 N-Ethyl-N-methyl-(1,2-methylenedioxy)-
4-(2-aminopropyl)benzene 221

Original erowid link
Route I: PMK → N-formyl-MDMA → MDMA

A reaction by-product N,N-dimethyl-3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine (DMMDA) was identified. This assignation was based on the mass spectrum shown in Fig. 6 together with a molecular weight of 207 (from the CI mass spectrum) and by analogy with the corresponding amphetamine synthesis11,12. However, DMMDA (a tertiary amine) has the same mass spectrum as its isomer N-ethyl-3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine (a secondary amine)13,14. The compound did not, however, form a derivative with TFAA, showing it to be a tertiary amine and not a secondary amine. This compound could be the product of the reaction of dimethylformamide (DMF) and PMK where DMF is an impurity of NMF12. Verweij4 has identified DMMDA as an impurity in illicit MDMA manufactured by low pressure reductive amination.

Route II: PMK → N-formyl-MDA → MDMA

Reaction by-products such as [1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-propyl]amine and [1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-propyl]methylamine which have been identified in the synthesis of MDA6 using the Leuckart reaction were not observed in this study. However, GC-MS provides some evidence to suggest the presence of methylenedioxy substituted pyrimidines and pyridines analogous to those observed in the cognate synthesis of amphetamine10,15. The mass spectrum of the tentatively substituted pyrimidine (Fig. 7a) is characterized by its two major ions of mass 213 and 214. The molecular ion of mass 214 exhibits a mass shift of 44 from that observed in the mass spectrum of the cognate amphetamine impurity15, suggesting a methylenedioxy substituted analogue. Similarly, the molecular ion of mass 348 (Fig. 7b) of the tentatively identified substituted pyridine impurity10 exhibits a mass shift of 88 with respect to similar compounds observed in amphetamine synthesis. This suggests a methylenedioxy doubly substituted pyridine analogue which is consistent with the structure of the known impurity.

Route III: safrole → MDPBP → MDMA.
No noted by-products

Are any of these impurities really toxic? Are they likely to be in great enough amounts to do me damage?

Why the fuck was my MDMA pink? (and no i don't think i have gay MDMA) :D

 

[J. Alfred Prufrock]

I think most synthetic routes pass through MDP2P. It polymerizes and makes the liver spots you sometimes see in pills. They have a brown/reddish tint.

If the vacuum distillations are done with a crappy vacuum and the temperature gets high, you get liver spots and reddish MDMA. The product of the polymerization of MDP2P probably isn't any more toxic than MDMA itself, i.e. ...pretty toxic.

 

[slopoke]

Yeah, i suppose i should have said 'impurities that are more toxic than MDMA' lol

 

[nanobrain]

red red wine, makes me feel fine...for a complicated scenario there is usually a simple solution - and wine import/export is a very lucrative trade indeed.

your freaky dealer was not far off the mark, he just, ahem, missed the boat.

 

[slopoke]

You trying to say he was telling the truth? honestly, i doubt it. More machismo, i know what i'm talking about bullshit.

Or maybe you've got a lucritive import export business you're not sharing with us? eh Nano?

 

[phase_dancer]

One of the biggest concerns is if any safrole or isosafrole present in the ketone is not removed via distillation. There are many stories of old regarding non-distilled ketone.

During a past Uni project, I looked at typical impurities when MDP2P is produced via peracetic oxidation of isosafrole. I chose this route because, apart from the starting material, all chems for this procedure are available OTC and high safrole containing C. Camphora grows abundantly in many areas of east coast of Australia (reported as high as 55% of inner trunk wood oil and up to 23.3% of root wood oil; Stubbs et al 2004)


If isomerisation is close to 100% efficient, and oxidation etc is also regarded as efficient, the mixture may be thought (by those who don't know better) to only contain MDP2P. Of course the products of the base rearrangement and the oxidation should both be distilled. However, while safrole and iso can be distilled without vacuum, as J. Alfred Prufrock mentioned, MDP2P requires a reasonable vacuum so as to avoid things like polymerisation.

If a peracid is used for the oxidative process, the weight of the intermediate glycol mixture may even give the impression of very high yields (see Chromic's "peracetic dreams of success" from old hive posts) and a sloppy manufacturer may decide to skip distilling the ketone, thinking it's not necessary.

While other impurities do carry some health concerns, one in particular is more worrying. If saf/iso is present in a Al/Hg reductive amination process (or some hydride or H2/cat), it will be reduced to 3,4 methylenedioxyphenylpropane or dihydrosafrole. This has potential to be a nasty liver carcinogen as metabolism will likely proceed through a ring epoxidation.

Years ago I read an interesting account of how samples of ketone distilled MDMA and non-ketone distilled MDMA were given out for assessment. The overwhelming majority apparently preferred the non-distilled product

 

[Ximot]

I've seen MDMA that was really sticky and dark brown. when the sticky brown lump was crushed, it turned tan/light brown in colour and became powdery, non-sticky. The more the MDMA was rubbed between fingers (in a baggie) the more it became pale... no one would have thought it had been really brown just before... any explanations for that?

 

[specialspack]

I've seen MDMA that was really sticky and dark brown. when the sticky brown lump was crushed, it turned tan/light brown in colour and became powdery, non-sticky. The more the MDMA was rubbed between fingers (in a baggie) the more it became pale... no one would have thought it had been really brown just before... any explanations for that?

Yeah - you're basically looking many layers of molecules, each with a slight tint that appears almost white when crushed into small amounts. Put them all together and the tint builds up, like layering gels, or tinted glass.

 

[delta_9]

alot of times, the color of a pill dictates the drug(other than mdma of course) that is in it, for example, in chicago, 99% of yellow and green pillz got meth, most blue got some amphetamine, ive seen red and pink with ketamine, this may or may not be the case elsewhere, but ive never bought a pill outside of chicago
the press may also be an indicator, but that usually isnt the case in chicago

 

[Mind_Movie]

alot of times, the color of a pill dictates the drug(other than mdma of course) that is in it, for example, in chicago, 99% of yellow and green pillz got meth, most blue got some amphetamine, ive seen red and pink with ketamine, this may or may not be the case elsewhere, but ive never bought a pill outside of chicago
the press may also be an indicator, but that usually isnt the case in chicago

^ this information is not correct.
color or press (you mean logo?) says nothing!

 

[djfriendly]

alot of times, the color of a pill dictates the drug(other than mdma of course) that is in it, for example, in chicago, 99% of yellow and green pillz got meth, most blue got some amphetamine, ive seen red and pink with ketamine, this may or may not be the case elsewhere, but ive never bought a pill outside of chicago
the press may also be an indicator, but that usually isnt the case in chicago

The color of utter bullshit is dark brown.

 

[nanobrain]

alot of times, the color of a pill dictates the drug(other than mdma of course) that is in it, for example, in chicago, 99% of yellow and green pillz got meth, most blue got some amphetamine, ive seen red and pink with ketamine, this may or may not be the case elsewhere, but ive never bought a pill outside of chicago
the press may also be an indicator, but that usually isnt the case in chicago

oops....remind me not to go to Chicago, cause, um, i'm colorblind.

 

[snowshovel]

I've seen MDMA that was greenish. Molly seems to vary in colour a hell of a lot.

 

[5-HT2]

^^^It doesn't take a lot of impurity to drastically alter the color of MDMA. I've had MDMA that was straight white crystal, and it was less pure than some other shit that was gray powder and tested 99%.

 

[Helios.]

some generalizations

Given a choice between a pill with speckles and one without speckles, I'll take the pill with speckles every time. I've had good luck with reddish/pinkish pills as well.

 

[slopoke]

These generalisations don't actually mean anything, i mean how easy would it be for a cook to prepare 'to your tastes' so to speak?

But i also find pills with speckles are usually the better ones

 

[nanobrain]

i find properly cooked and charged crystal MDMA should be just that - crystal.

now, if size is an indication of purity, an MDMA crystal weighing several grams is what works best, i find - simple reagent or chromatographic tests then confirm what is already known.

back to red wine, y'all didn't get it, which is good.

 

[hussness]

Would activated charcoal remove the color impurities?

 

[phase_dancer]

back to red wine, y'all didn't get it, which is good.

not all....

Would activated charcoal remove the color impurities?

It might do, although an acetone wash may be best to start with. It's reported that acetone usually removes most of the typical brown/yellow colored impurities. Then again, the presence of any color or odour indicates poor lab technique at best, so maybe it's more sensible to "filter out" the unworthy chemist if you get my drift.

The color of utter bullshit is dark brown.

 

[Sprinklervibes]

Well they've probably got a reason to keep it "unclean". For example how much acetone costs to them compared to the marginal increase in purity a wash would do. And then they've got the extra tons of liters of solvent to get rid of. That shit is no good for nature

alot of times, the color of a pill dictates the drug(other than mdma of course) that is in it, for example, in chicago, 99% of yellow and green pillz got meth, most blue got some amphetamine, ive seen red and pink with ketamine, this may or may not be the case elsewhere, but ive never bought a pill outside of chicago
the press may also be an indicator, but that usually isnt the case in chicago

Given a choice between a pill with speckles and one without speckles, I'll take the pill with speckles every time. I've had good luck with reddish/pinkish pills as well.

But i also find pills with speckles are usually the better ones

On topic, please!.. This thread has nothing to do with pills