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MDMA: Holes in your brain/damage. Myth or the truth?

Hm. i would not take paracetamol or aspirin after or before the roll, also i would be scared to take MAO-B.

ALA, L-carnitine. Some multivitamins, maybe SSRI, and maybe 5htp.

My "rollling" got out of control right now also. But still i think it must be at least 200-250 MG MDMA for a night.
 
You probably haven't done permanent damage. I would advise that you avoid it for at least 6 months though.

I certainly hope not! I'm gonna commit to that. I'll strive for longer, but definitely 6 months. Just discovered the world of nootropics, looking into those as well...

Hm. i would not take paracetamol or aspirin after or before the roll, also i would be scared to take MAO-B.

ALA, L-carnitine. Some multivitamins, maybe SSRI, and maybe 5htp.

My "rollling" got out of control right now also. But still i think it must be at least 200-250 MG MDMA for a night.

Same here. I doubt anymore than that (besides the last day of ultra...lol)

Using 5htp, but started a few days after the rolls, I had heard something about it not letting your receptors up-regulate again
 
Depends how much damage you caused. It will get more active with time if you don't use it again and eat and exercise etc. It will probably never get as active as it once was before because alot of damage has been done. I went to a rave lastnight on shrooms and couldn't believe how dumb all these people look on mdma. To be fair where I'm from there's alot of good mdma, it's not hard to find good stuff. Just thinking about all these kids taking pills upon pills, redosing 5 times and just have no clue about anything. If they find a pill on the ground they'll pop it. Sad thing is these kids brains haven't even developed, I can't imagine what they'll be like in ten years.

Yea i agree, it definitely is such a unique but potent chemical. From personal experience so far, i feel a lot of the areas negatively affected in my life have improved. But there still parts where i feel aren't exactly how they should be. I don't really have that spark from life that i once had in my sober days. I've also been off MDMA for at least a year and a half now so what should have been repaired is repaired by now..
 
As many have pointed out the holes int he brain propaganda is just that and the US government has since owned up to lying about it on the DL. The study that the DR "claimed" holes/ lack of blood flow and later Parkinson, its well known in the medical community that "SOME HOW" he used the WRONG chemicals and not MDMA to come to this conclusion. He has to retract his papers in the American Journal on the topics too. The US gov. paid his to do this research and to come to the conclusions that he did, that too is well known and the case for many MANY North American studies on drugs since about the 1950's. Big Pharma and all of their $$ keeps it that way.....

There have been a lot of great studies coming out of Europe the last few years on MDMA.. I will have to see if I can find some links for you..

The KEY to it all is Moderation. Anything you have done to your system right now will heal it will just take a little while. There is many first hand accounts here and in many other places of people who have abused MDMA very badly and made full recovery with time and good habits on food and exercise. You had a "small" binge you will be fine compared to a lot of others its was more of an oops.. that is as long as its was a one time binge and not a habit..

As for spacing.. I have READ a LOT of studies and first hand experiences from around the world...the SHORTEST time people seem to agree on for "regular" uses is 4 weeks (aka a month) and an AVERAGE of 6 weeks ( aka a Month and a half) while 2-3 months is a "SAFE Zone" for others... it seems most agree that after a binge 6 months is a good time for breaking to maybe a year depending on how long and hard the binge was.
 
Seeing as mdma isn't that far chemically structured off methamphetamine, and also having a large impact on the serotonin syndrome, whilst i don't honestly believe that mdma causes holes in the brain, i do think that it can disrupt your brain to the point of memory loss, depression, anxiety etc and certain people are just more susceptible or do other drugs to combat the side effects, which is wrong in the first place, just slow down. I notice a lot of heavy mdma users can also tend to toke a lot to help ease the depression and anxiety.

I absolutely cane my stash of weed after i do mdma.
 
I've noticed a lot that when Im feeling down/lame from MDMA use, if I take some mushrooms or LSD (Low doses 75-100 micrograms) it can bring a lot of color back to my world and I will feel way better/ not depressed. I will take mdma at night before and if theres time i will eat some mushies the next day and get myself back to normal. However I really cant say that I abuse the shit out of MDMA. I have probly taking it about 30 or 40 times in the past 5 years and I never use it 2 days in a row or take 10 in a night like some people i know. I once new a kid who popped a 100 thizzles over 2 weeks.

The thing that has come to really work for me for depression is LSD at low doses. High doses work too. But for someone who's not used to it, a 70 ug hit should take the cloudy depression away without causing to much real confusion. 50 ug can do something to you without you even really feeling it. I definately feel like it repairs alot of the damage done by mdma. WIth larger doses i think its more difficult for people who have really abused it to adjust but at small doses I think its great.

Just remember its not what goes in you but what comes out. Ive seen strait alcoholics that have been the nicest people on earth while others tend to be the classic mean drunk.

If MDMA really is so dangerous then why would the government even give shit. They obviously dont care that tobacco and alcohol are killing people everyday let alone the massive amount of shitty prescription drugs from oxycontin to anti-depressants. Dont mind the fluoride in the water, its for the health of your teethe (Like the government really gives a shit about our teethe).

MDMA is not illegal because its bad for you. The way I see it, these rich fuckers controlling the the pharmaceuticals dont want us to have anything thats good for us socially. They want us isolated, dumb and scared so that we dont realize how fucked over everything really is. ALcohol is accepted because it dumbs us down. Addiction distracts us. Heroine and coke and opium and marijuana illegal because Sorry for ranting. People need to know.
 
i already said;

Oh, I'm sorry. I should re-phrase that. What exactly were your feelings/thoughts about it?

As many have pointed out the holes int he brain propaganda is just that and the US government has since owned up to lying about it on the DL. The study that the DR "claimed" holes/ lack of blood flow and later Parkinson, its well known in the medical community that "SOME HOW" he used the WRONG chemicals and not MDMA to come to this conclusion. He has to retract his papers in the American Journal on the topics too. The US gov. paid his to do this research and to come to the conclusions that he did, that too is well known and the case for many MANY North American studies on drugs since about the 1950's. Big Pharma and all of their $$ keeps it that way.....

There have been a lot of great studies coming out of Europe the last few years on MDMA.. I will have to see if I can find some links for you..

The KEY to it all is Moderation. Anything you have done to your system right now will heal it will just take a little while. There is many first hand accounts here and in many other places of people who have abused MDMA very badly and made full recovery with time and good habits on food and exercise. You had a "small" binge you will be fine compared to a lot of others its was more of an oops.. that is as long as its was a one time binge and not a habit..

As for spacing.. I have READ a LOT of studies and first hand experiences from around the world...the SHORTEST time people seem to agree on for "regular" uses is 4 weeks (aka a month) and an AVERAGE of 6 weeks ( aka a Month and a half) while 2-3 months is a "SAFE Zone" for others... it seems most agree that after a binge 6 months is a good time for breaking to maybe a year depending on how long and hard the binge was.

I agree with most everything you said. I will definitely be breaking for a while, trying for at least 6 months, hopefully more!

Moderation is indeed key, I kind of just stopped giving a fuck for a little bit due to what I am experiencing in life atm. I spent so long worrying about this and that, and thinking so negative, that when I snapped out of it I kind of said FUCK IT! I'm gonna live my life to the fullest, and if i wanna do something, I'm more likely to do it now. No matter what it is.

My binge was a "heldback" binge as in I was aware I was binging but still had to restrain from endless dropping whenever I wanted for the weekend, lol. I tried to keep it relatively light.

Seeing as mdma isn't that far chemically structured off methamphetamine, and also having a large impact on the serotonin syndrome, whilst i don't honestly believe that mdma causes holes in the brain, i do think that it can disrupt your brain to the point of memory loss, depression, anxiety etc and certain people are just more susceptible or do other drugs to combat the side effects, which is wrong in the first place, just slow down. I notice a lot of heavy mdma users can also tend to toke a lot to help ease the depression and anxiety.

I absolutely cane my stash of weed after i do mdma.

Totally the same for me. I've been abstaining from weed a few times coming down, and the week was always horrible! This time however, I just toke and it smooths me out real good

I've noticed a lot that when Im feeling down/lame from MDMA use, if I take some mushrooms or LSD (Low doses 75-100 micrograms) it can bring a lot of color back to my world and I will feel way better/ not depressed. I will take mdma at night before and if theres time i will eat some mushies the next day and get myself back to normal. However I really cant say that I abuse the shit out of MDMA. I have probly taking it about 30 or 40 times in the past 5 years and I never use it 2 days in a row or take 10 in a night like some people i know. I once new a kid who popped a 100 thizzles over 2 weeks.

The thing that has come to really work for me for depression is LSD at low doses. High doses work too. But for someone who's not used to it, a 70 ug hit should take the cloudy depression away without causing to much real confusion. 50 ug can do something to you without you even really feeling it. I definately feel like it repairs alot of the damage done by mdma. WIth larger doses i think its more difficult for people who have really abused it to adjust but at small doses I think its great.

Just remember its not what goes in you but what comes out. Ive seen strait alcoholics that have been the nicest people on earth while others tend to be the classic mean drunk.

If MDMA really is so dangerous then why would the government even give shit. They obviously dont care that tobacco and alcohol are killing people everyday let alone the massive amount of shitty prescription drugs from oxycontin to anti-depressants. Dont mind the fluoride in the water, its for the health of your teethe (Like the government really gives a shit about our teethe).

MDMA is not illegal because its bad for you. The way I see it, these rich fuckers controlling the the pharmaceuticals dont want us to have anything thats good for us socially. They want us isolated, dumb and scared so that we dont realize how fucked over everything really is. ALcohol is accepted because it dumbs us down. Addiction distracts us. Heroine and coke and opium and marijuana illegal because Sorry for ranting. People need to know.

I liked reading this, your theory on post-LSD is interesting. I can never find serious LSD though, just that acid that tastes like bitter crap and numbs your tongue. Still, I drop the shit out of it, and it's never caused me any noticeable long-lasting lingering effects.

Currently, the only thing I can REALLY notice (since rolling that weekend) is a drop in memory. I'll be walking into a room and forget what the purpose of me walking into that room was. It's kind of funny and silly, but also not at the same time.

I've been supplementing CDP Choline and plan to explore nootropics.

I agree that the gov. conspires against us and makes things illegal for stupid reasons, but I do think MDMA has the potential for negative effects afterwards.

Never ever got that feeling with acid/shrooms, and only slightly with weed (just very slight memory impairment for up to a week after smoking often)

I suppose your rant, got me ranting myself! Haha.
 
ALcohol is accepted because it dumbs us down. Addiction distracts us. Heroine and coke and opium and marijuana illegal because Sorry for ranting. People need to know.

Alcohol is more accepted because prohibition was tried, and failed -- in the US, on a grand scale. It took about 50-60 years post-prohibition to get alcohol more interesting beyond the buzz (eg create actual well-made alcohol products stateside) and I'm hoping that marijuana will reach a better status in shorter amounts of time. (Funny to think of Colorado as a post-prohibition pioneer, but they look like the best candidate for innovative commercial cannabis products. Yes, I expect legalization eventually.)

Opiates seem to me the poster drug for why today's law is accepted by the common man. Whether heroin or oxy or whatnot, no other class of compound seems to have the poorest ratio of addiction and destroyed lives, the type of things that inspire others to craft these policies in the first place.

The "rich fuckers controlling the pharmaceuticals" actually are stuck in a bit of a weird place these days. Some of their products (benzos, vicodin, oxy, codeine, etc.) *are* the drug problem. The local news (your source to get the Pulse of the Scare Story that the suburbanites are chatting about) goes on and on about prescription stories these days. I've hardly heard anything about MJ, no one is scared about that anymore.

(The other dominant drug scare story is "molly" and other synthetic drugs ("bath salts"), so don't look for MDMA to be legal anytime soon. If you follow the "bath salt" stories, you'll also see that one of the reasons why drugs are illegal is that a lot of people don't know shit about them.)
 
IIRC Pscilocin/Psycolbilan caused some sort of neurogenesis in a certain part of the brain... Could be fixing any MDMA damage which explains why some people find success in treating post-MDMA mood issues with mushies and why they can also themsleves pull people out of depression. Well atleast it could play a part alongside any physoclogical repair it does in regards to depression.
 
Hello tokersrule,

As many of the former users mentioned, the "ecstasy causes holes in the brain" statement is a myth. It seems like the myth was made mainstream by good ol' Oprah Winfrey :p - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_-CI1Py-Gg. In the clip, we see the doctor's explanation of the brain scan cut off and he does not get to elaborate on what the image is actually showing. The "holes" actually represent lack of cerebral blood flow to those areas of the brain.

As for the long-term effects of ecstasy, lack of cerebral blood flow is only one of the many adverse effects of the drug. Alvarenga and colleagues (2010) found that repeated administrations of ecstasy resulted in DNA breakage in cells of the blood, liver, and brain in rats. The scary part is that they found DNA damage in all of these cells after one administration of MDMA (that could be you) :!. Additionally, in Scmeud's (2003) study, they found neural degeneration among all rats who were administered medium to high doses of MDMA. This neural degeneration, and neurotoxicity in general, is a byproduct of hyperthermia (when the body gets too hot). As rats are able to regulate their body temperatures more efficiently than humans, this means that humans may be even more susceptible to these effects than the rats were. Ethics prevent this study being replicated within a human sample but one can speculate...:sus:

Among humans, prolonged MDMA usage has been shown to be related to reduced hippocampal volume (especially within chronic users; den Hollander et al., 2012), a reduction in grey matter (Kish et al., 2010), and impairments in hippocampal-dependent performances such as memory tasks (Brown et al., 2010). Grey matter is the parts of the brain made up of mostly cell-bodies (neurons); and the hippocampus is responsible for learning and memory.

In conclusion, although MDMA usage will not result in holes in your brain, there are serious adverse effects which result from MDMA usage. These effects are heightened within chronic users (defined as those who have taken at least 50 pills in their lifetime).

I wouldn't risk it.
:(


References:
Alvarenga, T. A., Andersen, M. L., Ribeiro, D. A., Araujo, P., Hirotsu, C., Costa, J. L., & Tufik, S. (2010). Single exposure to cocaine or ecstasy induces DNA damage in brain and other organs of mice. Addiction Biology, 15(1), 96-99. doi:10.1111/j.1369-1600.2009.00179.x
Brown, J., McKone, E., & Ward, J. (2010). Deficits of long-term memory in ecstasy users are related to cognitive complexity of the task. Psychopharmacology, 209, 51-67. doi:10.1007/s00213-009-1766-2
den Hollander, B., Schouw, M., Groot, P., Huisman, H., Caan, M., Barkhof, F., & Reneman, L. (2012). Preliminary evidence of hippocampal damage in chronic users of ecstasy. Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery & Psychiatry, 83(1), 83-85. doi:10.1136/jnnp.2010.228387
Kish, S. J., Lerch, J., Furukawa, Y., Tong, J., McCluskey, T., Wilkins, D., ... Boileau, I. (2010). Decreased cerebral cortical serotonin transporter binding in ecstasy users: A positron emission tomography/[11C]DASB and structural brain imaging study. Brain, 133, 1779-1797. doi:10.1093/brain/awq103
Schmued, L. C. (2003). Demonstration and localization of neuronal degeneration in the rat forebrain following a single exposure to MDMA. Brain Research, 974, 127-133. doi:10.1016/S0006-8993(03)02563-0
 
Serious studies by highly qualified toxicologists such as Prof. D. Nutt has ranked the use of mdma as being lower risk than many other intoxicants, including alcohol.
His findings formed part of a report submitted to the British parliament.
An analogous report to the Dutch parliament by other researchers came to similar conclusions.
The message here is that education, safe usage information, and public testing facilities at parties, raves, etc. is a more effective method of harm reduction than circulating scare stories.
 
^I believe the risk that Nutt was speaking of was acute risk of death, rather than risk of adverse psychiatric effects. Not to say that alcohol doesn't carry risks of psychiatric consequences if abused as well though.
 
^I believe the risk that Nutt was speaking of was acute risk of death, rather than risk of adverse psychiatric effects. Not to say that alcohol doesn't carry risks of psychiatric consequences if abused as well though.

The risks Nutt considered, were to quote "16 measures of harm to the user and to wider society, such as damage to health, drug dependency, economic costs and crime."
 
Then it sounds like the ranking has even less to do with the risk of adverse psychiatric effects. Deaths from drunk driving alone would knock ecstasy pretty far down there, not to mention all the other damage an alcoholic can do to society and one's body in terms of cardiovascular disease etc (and just how prevalent alcohol use is).

Alcohol can have significant effects on the brain, especially when used during childhood, but we don't have good longitudinal studies examining the effect that E has on the growing adolescent brain so we can compare it to alcohol.

I'm all for people recreationally using MDMA responsibly as long as they're aware it's not 100% risk free, but I wouldn't want people equating it with cannabis - which is what a lot of people come away from those sorts of reports thinking.
 
It doesn't put holes in your brain, but it causes a loss of blood flow in the prefrontal cortex, which shows up as holes on scans.
 
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