MDMA destorys the body?

[Desohigh]

Hi everybody.
As some of you know that I abused in the summer with weekend usage, but find this site and controlled my usage without getting myself some side effects.

I was obsessed bodybuilder, give my priority always to gym my body etc all the time.
Anyway, when I abused this chemical, I lost my muscles around 1.5 - 2 months. My power, my size etc..

My weekend usage made me lose fat a lot.. I got a lean body that I never had before, just insane results.. But lost my muscle mass too much..
So, If obsessive bodybuilders can help me about this chemical has effects on muscles or just appetite?

If it's appetite, I can easily force myself to get my daily protein.
But if it effects the muscles, (cuz I experienced in summer) it's a bad bad news for me..

 

[Ophidian]

Higher cortisol/norepinephrine levels in your body due to the MDMA usage and less food equals lower calorie intake = loss of fat and muscle mass.
Get your calories from drinks/shakes while your are high - its much easier to get down the throat.

 

[augustaB]

Not really destory the body, perhaps makes obsessive physical culture seem a bit daft though.

 

[Zalo]

Serotonin regulates appetite, so by abusing MDMA you could have potentially affected your appetite among other things. I remember reading something on MDMA and how it increases cortisol levels by a high amount. Cortisol makes it harder to synthesize proteins, perhaps even making you more catabolic. High cortisol levels also cause hippocampal atrophy, which regulates the HPA-axis (the hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal axis that releases cortisol). Your hippocampus may have become less efficient at shutting off cortisol production increasing the amount of cortisol in your body in your day-to-day life. Also, when you're on drugs you can go HOURS without eating. Take MDMA at 8pm, start coming down around 12-1am, go to sleep at 2-3am, wake up at noon; you can go 12+ hours without eating. I'm unsure of the setting you were in when abusing MDMA, but I'm assuming you were also dancing all night. Physical and psychological stress, low calories, burning calories = muscle/fat loss.

As an obsessed bodybuilder I'm sure you already know that you need a minimum amount of calories to maintain weight (muscle/fat) and a surplus of calories to gain.

Overall though, MDMA isn't very stressful on the body and responsible usage makes it almost negligible. Based on a graph on wikipedia MDMA is actually easier on your body compared to alcohol.

 

[Desohigh]

Yeah, I can take calories after using mdma with supplements or shakes np..
But I think that MDMA also increases cortisol levels, so it won't be the same protein intake of the body like every other days. So technically, your body enters a catabolic duration, and it continues till a few hours? days? I don't know but It really bothers me.

By the way, I also try to eat some snacks while drinking water, maybe some protein shakes or even EGGS while rolling or after rolling..(ofc only the white - I said i'm obsessed)
Doing this make any help to prevent catabolic process? My protein shakes also contain glutamine bcaa etc which prevents (or advertised) as catabolic preventers.

 

[mj1945]

Hey OP I myself am a pretty avid bodybuilder myself. ATM am 5'8 around 180 and 9% bodyfat but I've been steering pretty clear of the substances because I notice I take huge step backs when I do them. When I was abusing mdma multiple times a week I was around 130 pounds skin and bones. The dehydration, sweating and draining the body of nutrients all probably play a role in muscle loss. I also read high doses of amphetamines literally break down and destroy muscle fibers, so if your big on working out then really keep mdma to every 3 months.

It's always tough to eat but one thing I can handle is fruit. After a night of rolling and smoking some kush I'll come home I'll make a huge fruit salad blueberries, rasberries, apples, oranges bananas etc,... goes down like a charm and my body usually feels pretty good as long as I can get 4-6 hours, prefferably six.

Still I always notice after a night on mdma it looks like a lose a tad bit of size that takes a week maybe less to get back. Also workouts go to shit for the next few days. You can get high every weekend but expect to lose a ton of progress, no point in taking two steps forward during the week and then one back on the weekend.

 

[mj1945]

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/amphetamines/amphetamines_health.shtml

Here where it talks about rhabdomyolysis and kidney damage it says breakdown of muscle fibres from overheating and overstimulation. I know it's adderall but both are in the same family of drugs and have similar effects.

If you like to lift heavy then that's where your nervous system will take a blow from the mdma. Workout on say a saturday then roll hard and go to the gym the next day and try to lift heavy. After every set I'd get a sensation at the back of my head down my spine throughout my body just telling me to get some rest.

Other than the nervous system and muscle fibers mdma messes up your diet and sleep for a little bit, the two other most important things to bodybuilding IMO. So sorry dude but you'd have to pick one or the other if your serious about it. You can still be in good shape doing this but nowhere even close to if you didn't.

 

[badrobot114]

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/amphetamines/amphetamines_health.shtml

Here where it talks about rhabdomyolysis and kidney damage it says breakdown of muscle fibres from overheating and overstimulation. I know it's adderall but both are in the same family of drugs and have similar effects.

If you like to lift heavy then that's where your nervous system will take a blow from the mdma. Workout on say a saturday then roll hard and go to the gym the next day and try to lift heavy. After every set I'd get a sensation at the back of my head down my spine throughout my body just telling me to get some rest.

Other than the nervous system and muscle fibers mdma messes up your diet and sleep for a little bit, the two other most important things to bodybuilding IMO. So sorry dude but you'd have to pick one or the other if your serious about it. You can still be in good shape doing this but nowhere even close to if you didn't.

I mean no offense, but you're spreading false information. Adderall and MDMA are chemically related, it's true. It's also true that they share a few common modes of action. However, Adderall causes much larger increases in Dopamine and Noradrenaline which makes it a much more potent sympathomimetic. MDMA has caused kidney failure and muscle breakdown in extreme cases, but this is extremely uncommon and is almost always a combination of very high dosage and non stop physical activity. Otherwise you'd have to be abnormally sensitive(as in intolerant) for something like this to happen to you on MDMA. Again, Amphetamines are more effective at causing this because they are considerably more stimulating. Extrapolating from one drug to another just because they're both sympathomimetic and chemically related while ignoring the fact they target different neurotransmitters, have different modes of action and produce very different effects is just misinformative.

I also strongly disagree that rolling once every few months will impede your bodybuilding process in any way. I can testify that I work out 4-5 times a week, am fit and haven't noticed any negative effect in that regard from using MDMA.

 

[mj1945]

I mean no offense, but you're spreading false information. Adderall and MDMA are chemically related, it's true. It's also true that they share a few common modes of action. However, Adderall causes much larger increases in Dopamine and Noradrenaline which makes it a much more potent sympathomimetic. MDMA has caused kidney failure and muscle breakdown in extreme cases, but this is extremely uncommon and is almost always a combination of very high dosage and non stop physical activity. Otherwise you'd have to be abnormally sensitive(as in intolerant) for something like this to happen to you on MDMA. Again, Amphetamines are more effective at causing this because they are considerably more stimulating. Extrapolating from one drug to another just because they're both sympathomimetic and chemically related while ignoring the fact they target different neurotransmitters, have different modes of action and produce very different effects is just misinformative.

I also strongly disagree that rolling once every few months will impede your bodybuilding process in any way. I can testify that I work out 4-5 times a week, am fit and haven't noticed any negative effect in that regard from using MDMA.

Well he was saying weekly usage which will no doubt hinder his progress. I'm not sure how serious he's taking the bodybuilding but once or twice a month will be having more negatives than it will positives I'll tell you that much.

http://www.healthlinkbc.ca/kb/content/special/uq2447.html
http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/ecstasy/f/mdma_faq04.htm

Type in mdma and muscle breakdown and you get tons of articles stating the same thing which I should have done in the first place. I've done adderall a fair share and have went threw a long abuse of mdma. The temperature increase between the two isn't even close and is one of the reasons mdma is bad for your muscles. Also pretty stimulating in itself, I'm sure mdma is doing nothing but bad things for your muscles.

There's a reason most people who rave and pop pills every weekend are skinny. I've never seen any jacked guys who pop every weekend, and if there are any I'd bet they're on some serious juice.

 

[badrobot114]

Sorry, I missed the part about weekly use there.

Well then obviously the answer is absolutely yes. Rolling every week will absolutely cripple your physical prowess in no time. Not to mention that after a very short time, your fitness will be the least of your worries. Don't roll every weekend, it never ever ends well.

In regards to MDMA and body temperature, I must disagree once more that MDMA is as potent as Amphetamines at raising body temperature independently. Adderall and Meth will have me sweating buckets from my armpits even when i'm flat on my back and doing nothing. MDMA will make me sweat a bit when it comes on, will make me sweat a bit more if i'm dancing, but it has never made me sweat when i'm not doing anything. Hyperthermia wasn't even discussed in clinical MDMA sessions, i'm also unaware of any studies which found significant increases in body temperature of subjects that were given MDMA in a comfortable ambient temperature and weren't engaged in continuous physical activity.

What happens with MDMA is that changes in temperature have a much more significant effect because the body's ability to regulate it's own temperature is compromised. A small decrease in temperature can make you feel -VERY- cold and a small increase can likewise make you feel -VERY- hot. Taking up to 200mg in a relaxed and comfortable setting is very unlikely to raise your body heat significantly for prolonged periods(likewise, taking a break from dancing will cool you down fairly rapidly) of time. Certainly not enough to cause acute muscle breakdown on it's own.

 

[Zalo]

High levels of prolonged cortisol levels lead to muscle breakdown, which would be a result of MDMA abuse. Cortisol also prevents protein synthesis and reduces the amount of amino acids your muscles absorb, so I'd assume higher levels of cortisol would cause a higher inhibition of protein synthesis and uptake of amino acids. I'd imagine the best ways to reduce, yet still elevated, levels of cortisol on MDMA would be to drink sufficient amounts of water, take breaks in between dancing/cool off, take antioxidants, and to practice any other harm reduction strategies.

Stressing over this would also cause cortisol secretion. Just be patient, continue bodybuilding, and don't worry about it too much. Try doing activities that unload stress as well. This will reduce cortisol levels putting less stress on the hippocampus making your brain more efficient at shutting off cortisol. This is assuming your hippocampus was affected by abusing MDMA, but it's overall a healthy thing to practice anyways.

 

[mj1945]

Sorry, I missed the part about weekly use there.

Well then obviously the answer is absolutely yes. Rolling every week will absolutely cripple your physical prowess in no time. Not to mention that after a very short time, your fitness will be the least of your worries. Don't roll every weekend, it never ever ends well.

In regards to MDMA and body temperature, I must disagree once more that MDMA is as potent as Amphetamines at raising body temperature independently. Adderall and Meth will have me sweating buckets from my armpits even when i'm flat on my back and doing nothing. MDMA will make me sweat a bit when it comes on, will make me sweat a bit more if i'm dancing, but it has never made me sweat when i'm not doing anything. Hyperthermia wasn't even discussed in clinical MDMA sessions, i'm also unaware of any studies which found significant increases in body temperature of subjects that were given MDMA in a comfortable ambient temperature and weren't engaged in continuous physical activity.

What happens with MDMA is that changes in temperature have a much more significant effect because the body's ability to regulate it's own temperature is compromised. A small decrease in temperature can make you feel -VERY- cold and a small increase can likewise make you feel -VERY- hot. Taking up to 200mg in a relaxed and comfortable setting is very unlikely to raise your body heat significantly for prolonged periods(likewise, taking a break from dancing will cool you down fairly rapidly) of time. Certainly not enough to cause acute muscle breakdown on it's own.

Depends what he is doing right, and we don't know his exact dose either so both factors will play a part. I personally never really sweat much on adderall compared to mdma so maybe that's just me. Personally I have had some pretty high temperatures after a night on mdma. Two or three times after rolling I've come down with pneumonia and twice I've had fevers fluctuating between 102-105. Probably because I was abusing it pretty heavily and my serotonin system was fucked!

We can agree to disagree but we can both agree that mdma is not good for the muscles and that's what he's asking, we kinda got a little off topic haha.

 

[mj1945]

High levels of prolonged cortisol levels lead to muscle breakdown, which would be a result of MDMA abuse. Cortisol also prevents protein synthesis and reduces the amount of amino acids your muscles absorb, so I'd assume higher levels of cortisol would cause a higher inhibition of protein synthesis and uptake of amino acids. I'd imagine the best ways to reduce, yet still elevated, levels of cortisol on MDMA would be to drink sufficient amounts of water, take breaks in between dancing/cool off, take antioxidants, and to practice any other harm reduction strategies.

Stressing over this would also cause cortisol secretion. Just be patient, continue bodybuilding, and don't worry about it too much. Try doing activities that unload stress as well. This will reduce cortisol levels putting less stress on the hippocampus making your brain more efficient at shutting off cortisol. This is assuming your hippocampus was affected by abusing MDMA, but it's overall a healthy thing to practice anyways.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2826870/

Here's a study saying cortisol levels increased by 800% so there's the culprit, and that's pretty damn high!

 

[Desohigh]

I just read a long article about cortisol and bodybuilding. I can't see the screen properly but I'll briefly try to explain.
Cortisol hormone is best in natural levels -60-340 nmol/L. But, Cortisol also has a big role on fat loss. When cortisol increases, it breaks down the fat acid and uses for glycogen.
After a big workout, for ex you had a workout 1h for legs. And your legs are stressed like a boss; so cortisol levels goes up. To block the cortisol increase, we use mainly glutamine bcaa amino acides.. So if we get cortisol blockers, it may help?

By the way, I don't and will not use weekly basis. I just used last summer.
Some medicines like clenbuterol uses body temperature for fat loss, so maybe the same effects like mdma?

Sorry but subject kinda changed to Mdma - fat loss relation :D
using 3 months in a row and the subject may sound awkard but I try to minimize the side effects.
Thank you for your opinions!