MDMA bad for the brain?

[killtheego]

So I've heard from this bio chem masters student who did studies on MDMA that taking it more than 10-15 times in your life is bad for your brain. I've also heard this on a youtube video by people from neurosoup.com. Anyone know how much water this notion holds?

 

[solistus]

MDMA is mildly neurotoxic, which means it can cause 'brain damage' if overused.

Basically: once your brain runs out of serotonin from rolling, free radicals can reach the serotonin receptor and potentially damage them. During a roll, you can help prevent this by taking some vitamin C - it's a powerful anti-oxidant that will reach your brain and help neutralize the free radicals before they can cause damage. The other main thing you can do to prevent this in the long term is to space out your rolls by at least a couple weeks each. If you roll twice in a short time, your brain is already low on serotonin and depletes it more quickly, so there's a longer time where the free radicals can do their nasty stuff. Some people also use 5-HTP to boost their serotonin levels before, during or after a roll. The jury's still out on how effective that is. Some people swear by it, others say it does nothing or even weakens their roll.

It's not particularly great for you at any dose, but the common wisdom is that for a healthy person, rolling once a month or so isn't too hard on the brain, but rolling more often than that with any regularity is probably not a good idea. Of course, the only way to be absolutely, 100% safe from any potential risk is never to take it, but IMHO, MDMA used in moderation is safe enough that an otherwise healthy person shouldn't lose any sleep over it.

 

[kazanokizu]

^^^doubt you could get a much better answer.

 

[ebola?]

So I've heard from this bio chem masters student who did studies on MDMA that taking it more than 10-15 times in your life is bad for your brain. I

If this student were worth his or her salt, he or she wouldn't have given that precise a figure, as the science to back it up just isn't there. We do know that there is some level of MDMA that induces pruning of serotonergic axons, and some higher level that causes neuronal death for cells with serotonin receptors. It's likely but uncertain whether such damage occurs with typical recreational use.

The above explanation of damage and protection is essentially sound, but vitamin C isn't a particularly good choice of anti-oxidants, as it's so short acting.

ebola

 

[killtheego]

I've heard of people taking 5-htp the day after the trip, but never before or during. Any other things I can use besides some vitamin C to lessen the damage?

 

[smellytim]

this is bluelights list of harm protection supplements:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=407429

green tea, vitc, piracetam, antioxidants, alpha lipoic acid, acetyl l-carnitine, 5-htp after

 

[killtheego]

Damn this site has everything i need to know, great shit.

 

[any major dude]

Most of the studies i've read found a statistically, but not clinically significant difference in short term memory & recall in people who are or were once heavy MDMA users. This basically means there is a measurable difference, but it isn't large enough to have much of a real life impact.

These studies are confounded by the fact that no one does just MDMA, or even pure MDMA

There are some people who have had adverse lasting effects from MDMA or things sold as MDMA though, so its still good to be careful, as even pure MDMA is mildly neurotoxic. The mechanisms for this aren't completely understood though. The current model of MDMA neurotoxicity seems to be in flux as the reuptake of 5-HT into dopaminergic vesicles doesn't seem to be holding up to further testing. Free radicals can be damaging, and are a natural part of metabolism of monamines, MDMA causes monamine efflux, & therefore more free radicals. Anti-oxidants can abate this somewhat.

Also, fuck neurosoup. I wouldn't get info there

 

[F1n1shed]

Yea after hearing the stuff about neuro soup i say fuck her, but in all honesty 'some' of her information does hold some value. Back to the op i kind of laughed at the question as it should be some what obvious and the 10-15 times thing is complete bull shit. Its either bad for your brain or it isn't and most studies are going for saying that it is neurotoxic for the brain but they do not know to what degree. It wouldn't matter if you do it 2 times or 15, some form of damage occurs each time how ever spacing out and all the other precautions you can do can significantly aid in reducing damage being done.

 

[killtheego]

Ya, going to just start drinking a lot of orange juice, instead of the copious amounts of water that I go through while on M.

 

[Splitz]

^ Alternate with water and juice though.

 

[killtheego]

Any reason why?

 

[bleedingheartcommie]

Some people also use 5-HTP to boost their serotonin levels before, during or after a roll. The jury's still out on how effective that is. Some people swear by it, others say it does nothing or even weakens their roll.

just a note... taking 5htp right before taking MDxx will prevent you from rolling.


but pre-loading... say a day before, and post loading....when the e wears off helps a great deal in my experience.


spacing rolls apart is the way to go... but it is also important to take longer breaks (6 months - 2 years) IMHO. If nothing else you will "get the magic back"



also, do people still use ssri's to stop their roll when they feel their serotonin is running low but the e is still pumping to avoid damage?


PLUR

 

[any major dude]

Yea after hearing the stuff about neuro soup i say fuck her, but in all honesty 'some' of her information does hold some value. Back to the op i kind of laughed at the question as it should be some what obvious and the 10-15 times thing is complete bull shit. Its either bad for your brain or it isn't and most studies are going for saying that it is neurotoxic for the brain but they do not know to what degree. It wouldn't matter if you do it 2 times or 15, some form of damage occurs each time how ever spacing out and all the other precautions you can do can significantly aid in reducing damage being done.

that's a bit of an oversimplification. The dose is really what makes the poison. Doing MDMA 10-15 times in reasonable dosages over 4yrs, probably isn't going to have any appreciable effect. That same amount, in 10-15 weeks, may well be worse. That same amount in a year,.... probably not as bad. Giving your brain & body time to recover after such an experience is key for averting damage or lasting after effects. Some studies have shown that prior exposure can mitigate some of the negative effects, in rats anyway

 

[F1n1shed]

Well yea i know of course with spacing less damage occurs because more serotonin is able to be used with less oxidative stress happening. But he was trying to throw out a number like after 10 or 15 times it's bad for your brain? No after 1 time it is causing mild oxidative stress, now depending on when you want to drop next will determine the degree of damage occurring. Waiting longer to drop of course will aid in reducing damage being done. I was simply pointing out its not an amount of times, like that propaganda bs they said about '7' times on acid is legally insane. But anyways yea, i agree on your points any major dude.