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MDMA and Caffeine

beachmusic

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Apr 30, 2011
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Alright guys, I'm sorry about the question. I'm a little pressed for time because the big event is tomorrow. Last time I took Molly I was out at a club/ rave (very small) and I couldn't get the energy to move or dance. This weekend I'm going to my first big festival and I don't want to just relax. I was thinking about taking caffeine and I tried to find some answers by searching here and there. I tried searching here but couldn't find the exact answer I was looking for. There are mixed messages about it. I want to know in your experiences would you recommend taking caffeine? If so how many mg? (I'm going to take a pill not chug a redbull)

I'm a pretty avid pepsi drinker so I'm not really sensitive to caffeine. I want to have the energy to dance/walk around/and see it all not just melt into a blanket.

What kind of advice would you (oh so wise) guys and gals give me?

I'll be taking Molly that is pretty pure and not cut with speed or anything...
 
I would suggest mixing it with MDA if you had it that is if not I am sure one caffeine pill would be fine but not do much at all lol just accept the fact that MDMA is a bit sedating.
 
Like ^ Thomas said, MDMA can be quite sedating for some people including myself. Im also pretty insensitive to caffeine so what I like to do when I want an energetic roll is to mix a bit of amp with it. The downside to that may be a rough comedown, which I dont really get that often. If you dont want to add speed/amp into the mix, then caffeine is definately the way to go. If you find the energy from an energy drink adequate enough, then you might want to dose your caffeine at around the same amount. Most energy drinks seem to have between 100-200mg.
 
^ This.

I find a little bit of Caffeine works good if I am at a rave and I don't have access to speed. I believe it makes the whole experience a bit more taxing on your brain (as does speed), but not to the level that you should be overly concerned.

So yeah, sounds like a good plan to me. :)

Check out the Erowid Caffeine page for information on dosages:

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/caffeine/caffeine_dose.shtml

They have info about caffeine content in drinks/foods. So you can take in account you're pepsi use/tolerance when picking a dose.
 
I am a big fan of MDMA + caff.

You say you're taking a caffiene pill... Make sure that's all the pill contains! Alot of energy supplements like to combine some weird shit in their pills, but you can find some that are just straight caff.

I would shoot for a 200mg dose of caffiene. maybe 250 if you're bigger?
 
mdma and caff can be a great mix. caffeine should be enough to keep u from wanting to just sit around
 
gramme o coke will do ya fine love.
fuck the caffeine

Cokes effects dimish or can kill a roll completely. Some people enjoy a little bit of coke with it but tbh, there really isnt much point of taking the MDMA if youre just going to ruin it with coke.
 
Effect of adenosine receptors on 3, 4 methylene dioxy methamphetamine induced hyperthermic, neuroinflammatory and neurotoxic effects in mouse brain

Khairnar, Amit S. (2010) Effect of adenosine receptors on 3, 4 methylene dioxy methamphetamine induced hyperthermic, neuroinflammatory and neurotoxic effects in mouse brain. [Doctoral Thesis]

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Abstract

Previous studies of ours and other groups in mice have shown that 3, 4 Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, ecstasy) produces neurotoxic damage to dopaminergic neurons and neuroinflammation and caffeine, an adenosine A1/A2A antagonist enhances glial activation induced by MDMA, suggesting potential facilitation of neurodegenerative processes. In the present study we want to investigate effect of caffeine on MDMA induced dopaminergic neurotoxicity in adult mice, whereas selective A1 ( DPCPX ) and A2A ( SCH58261 ) antagonist will be evaluated in adult mice only. C57BL/6J male mice were treated with MDMA (4x20 mg/kg, i.p.) at 2 h interval alone or in combination with caffeine (10 mg/kg, i.p.), SCH 58261( 0.5 mg/kg, i.p.), DPCPX (0.5 mg/kg, i.p.) or saline 30 mins before first and third administration of MDMA. Caffeine, SCH 58261, DPCPX was given for two more days after MDMA treatment. Mice were sacrificed 48 h after last administration of MDMA. Immunohistochemistry of tyrosine hydroxylase (TH), CD11b and glial fibrillary acidic protein (GFAP) were performed to detect dopaminergic neuronal damage, microglia and astroglia activation respectively in substantia nigra pars compacta (SNc) and striatum (CPu). Repeated administration of MDMA induced significant decrease (15%) in TH positive neurons in SNc as compare to vehicle. Association of caffeine, SCH 58261, DPCPX with MDMA did not further decrease TH positive neurons as compare to MDMA alone. MDMA induced significant increase in CD11b immunoreactivity in SNc and CPu and GFAP immunoreactivity in CPu as compare to vehicle in adult mice. Treatment with SCH 58261 significantly potentiated MDMA induced increase in CD11b immunoreactivity in both SNc and CPu, whereas SCH58261 did not alter MDMA induced GFAP immunoreactivity in CPu. In contrast, treatment with DPCPX significantly potentiated both MDMA induced increase in CD11b and GFAP immunoreactivity in CPu but not in SNc. Results suggest that association of MDMA plus caffeine could produce increase of MDMA toxicity and both A1 and A2A receptors are involved in the potentiation of MDMA-mediated neuroinflammatory but not neurodegenerative effects suggesting a role of adenosine in MDMA harmful effects


Furthermore to evaluate the influence of caffeine in MDMA-induced neurotoxicity, MDMA was acutely administered to mice, alone or in combination with caffeine. CD11b and GFAP immunoreactivity were evaluated as markers of microglia and astroglia activation in the substantia nigra pars-compacta (SNc) and striatum. MDMA was associated with significantly higher GFAP immunoreactivity in striatum and CD11b immunoreactivity in both areas. Caffeine potentiated the increase in CD11b and GFAP in the striatum but not in the SNc of MDMA-treated mice. The abuse of MDMA is a growing worldwide problem. The results of this study suggest that combination of MDMA plus caffeine by increasing glial activation might have harmful health consequences.


MDMA AND CAFFEINE: A LETHAL COMBINATION
K.M. O’Boyle, K. Murphy and J.J. Callanan1. UCD Schools of Biomolecular and Biomedical Sciences and 1Agriculture, Food Science and Veterinary Medicine, Conway Institute, University College Dublin, Belfield; Dublin 4, Ireland.
The ring-substituted amphetamine derivative 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, ecstasy) is a widely used drug of abuse that causes acute hyperlocomotion and hyperthermia and long-term serotonergic neurotoxicity (Green et al., 1995). The aim of the present study was to investigate whether MDMA-induced toxicity was altered by co-administration of caffeine, a CNS stimulant frequently contained in impure ecstasy tablets and also in caffeine-laced high energy drinks.
Male Wistar rats (250-350 g) received two i.p. injections at 60 min intervals: saline or 20 mg/kg caffeine i.p. followed by saline or 20 mg/kg MDMA. Rats were assessed for (i) acute hyperthermic effects of drug treatments using a Braun Thermoscan infrared aural thermometer with digital readout, (ii) changes in blood biochemistry using a wet chemistry analyser (Randox Daytona) and (iii) post-mortem for changes to vital organs.
All rats that were treated with 20 mg/kg MDMA (n=25) survived; however, 4/4 rats co-treated with 20 mg/kg caffeine and 20 mg/kg MDMA collapsed lost their righting reflex and died within 4 hr of administration of MDMA (p<0.0001; χ2 test). Thereafter, co-treated rats were euthansed 3 hr after administration of MDMA. MDMA increased rat aural temperature. The hyperthermic effect of MDMA was significantly enhanced by caffeine 1 hr after MDMA (Table 1). Administration of MDMA caused a significant increase in serum levels of urea and creatinine. These effects of MDMA were enhanced by co-administration of caffeine, which alone did not alter these parameters (Table 1). Both MDMA and caffeine increased serum potassium levels; however, serum levels of potassium in co-treated animals were similar to vehicle treated controls (Table 1).
Table 1. Effects of 20 mg/kg MDMA alone and in combination with 20 mg/kg caffeine
Saline/Saline 36.9 ± 0.5 7.7 ± 0.2 52.7 ± 4.9 8.3 ± 1.5
Caffeine/Saline 36.8 ±0.4 8.1 ± 0.6 67.5 ± 3.6
Saline/MDMA 37.3 ± 0.6 10.8 ± 2.6*** 98.1 ± 17.9*** 12.6 ± 1.8**
Caffeine/MDMA 39.2 ± 0.4$$$ 14.5 ± 0.8$$ 117.2 ± 3.8$
Temperature °C Urea mM Creatinine μM Potassium mM Temperature measurements were made 1 hr after the second injection. Data are means ± SEM, n= 3-8. **p<0.01, ***p<0.001 vs saline/saline, $p<0.05, $$p<0.01, $$$p<0.001 vs saline/MDMA, 1 way ANOVA followed by Bonferroni’s test
11.1 ± 1.2*
These data demonstrate that doses of caffeine and MDMA that individually are well tolerated by rats are lethal when administered together. The cause of death mediated by the drug combination remains to be established. However, the increased rate of rise of body temperature, as well as the changes to serum urea and creatinine levels that are indicative of acute renal damage, may be contributing factors.


In a recent study of the acute and chronic effects of MDMA, the possible interactions of caffeine and MDMA were examined. Caffeine exacerbated the acute hyperthermic response to MDMA and tended to increase the loss of serotonin (forebrain 5-HT or hydroxytryptamine) and 5-HIAA (5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid). Thus, caffeine may aggravate the hyperthermic and neurotoxic effects of MDMA, possibly through a mechanism involving dopamine release. It was also found that higher doses of caffeine (10 and 20 mg.kg-1 body mass) when co-administered with MDMA (20 mg.kg-1 body mass) had lethal effects in experimental animals.
These results suggest that caffeine enhances the effects of MDMA and could possibly exacerbate dehydration due to separate diuretic effects.

Read more: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=MDMA#ixzz1MIH4pXRi





The point is that its a terrible idea. I have witnessed this combo harm people time and time again. FYI neurotoxic effects are not noticeable until a certain threshold is crossed. For example it takes 80% of dopamine neurons to be lesioned before parkinsons manifests, but at say 50% dopaminergic signal loss there is still a large amount of damage going un-noticed until that red line is crossed.

Mixing any stimulant with MDMA is bad news. Mixing stims with MDA is even worse.....


I put this together VERY quick, but i can post more articles and anecdotes/ experiences if anyone wants to see or has doubts.
 
10-20mg/kg of caffeine is A LOT. I weigh 60kg so according to this study that range would be 600-1200mg of caffeine and 1200mg of MDMA would kill me. Sure mixing stimulants can be a bad idea but why would some of the most famous and cleanest pills (Pokeballs) be a mix of MDMA and caffeine? Consuming reasonable amounts of caffeine isnt really all that dangerous, in the right situations of course. Im not trying to say that youre wrong or that the study is wrong, Im just stating that the combination isnt too dangerous at REASONABLE doses.
 
SWIM would say that if you are taking pure mdma, caffeine is a bad idea. Sure, a coca-cola on molly is no big deal, but i dont think that alot of caffeine capsules will make it a nice roll. You may feel a little more awake, but the high will not be as satisfying. that yayo, in small amounts combined with the mdma, will give you an incredibly amazing body/mind high. But again, only in small amounts because the white girl will wake you up much more and if you do too much will not only be dangerous but can kill the molly high. Still, from SWIM's personal experience the combo is amazing. Then again, that girl is my favorite so i have a biased opinion.
 
SWIM would say that if you are taking pure mdma, caffeine is a bad idea. Sure, a coca-cola on molly is no big deal, but i dont think that alot of caffeine capsules will make it a nice roll. You may feel a little more awake, but the high will not be as satisfying. that yayo, in small amounts combined with the mdma, will give you an incredibly amazing body/mind high. But again, only in small amounts because the white girl will wake you up much more and if you do too much will not only be dangerous but can kill the molly high. Still, from SWIM's personal experience the combo is amazing. Then again, that girl is my favorite so i have a biased opinion.

We dont use SWIM on Bluelight and is against forum rules. It doesnt protect you from anything and is overall just annoying to read. No one has recommended a lot of caffeine capsules, only one with 100-200mg.

OP: I highly suggest to stay away from cocaine during your rolls. Even the slightest amount can ruin it and mixing in a strong stimulant with another strong stimulant is generally a bad idea. Caffeine normally would be considered strong but since your not that sensitive to it, youll be fine with a reasonable amount. Cocaine and MDMA are two seperate entities affecting two different chemicals in your brain and are meant for two seperate occassions.
 
The point is that its a terrible idea. I have witnessed this combo harm people time and time again. FYI neurotoxic effects are not noticeable until a certain threshold is crossed. For example it takes 80% of dopamine neurons to be lesioned before parkinsons manifests, but at say 50% dopaminergic signal loss there is still a large amount of damage going un-noticed until that red line is crossed.

Mixing any stimulant with MDMA is bad news. Mixing stims with MDA is even worse.....


I put this together VERY quick, but i can post more articles and anecdotes/ experiences if anyone wants to see or has doubts.

No one is denying that stims + MDMA is bad idea, but then using drugs in the first place is a bad idea. Stims + MDMA is pretty common combo and I think it's possible to use it without messing up your life too much. Just saying...
 
Caffeine with MDMA: it's how I roll. (sorry ;))

Half an energy drink (up to 100mg of caffeine) is all I need throughout the night to keep up the dancing energy. I don't see much return from going over that. This is with no built up tolerance to caffeine beforehand. Without it, I'm slumped in a cuddle puddle all night with my eyes closed.
 
Caffeine can make you more jittery & tense feeling during your roll thats all ive ever noticed.
It can provide some stimulation also but its more of a mental stim then a body stimulant imE. I use it daily & in large doses also its in the pills i take when i do roll.
 
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pop yer pill and when you start to peak lay out a lil line of caffine powder and snort dat shit up works great i've done it many a weekends
 
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