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MDMA and Being in Love

Ataraxis5

Ataraxis5

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Joined
May 23, 2008
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Just wanted to bounce an interesting idea for research that would be very unlikely to get approval, but would be interesting all the same.

So essentially the hypothesis is that there is something physiological about love (Research regarding those in love and oxytocin suggest that there probably is, as well as the biopsychological view that all behavior can be explained genetically), and that MDMA activates and mimics that brain activity.

You probably wouldn't get very good results with fMRI or PET, as the "love" activity would be hard to pinpoint, but something like (and I don't know anything about this or if it works) measuring oxytocin levels of people who say they are in love and comparing it to the changes caused by MDMA.

The most far-reaching conclusion would be that there is a corresponding physiological state for love, that MDMA mimics it, and that we can get funding to study some taboo research topics.

Just figured I'd throw the idea up and see if anyone else thought it would be interesting/had ideas.

[For KT ;) ]
 
A friend was working in a lab last summer said one group was working on oxytocin and MDMA. Apparently they discovered that MDMA not only binds to the oxytocin receptor (this was already known) but actually releases oxytocin also!

I still think love will be very different than a MDMA experience (well it is ime having done both, albeit MDMA much more than love =D). There's something distinct about being a conscious representing organism and having your object of love (mate) in your environment and being conscious of s/he.
 
I can't find any evidence that MDMA binds to any oxytocin receptor. I do find that 5HT1a stimulation causes the release.

I've seen the binding thing repeated lots but never a single reference.
 
it has weak affinity for the oxytocin receptor. Let me dig through some sources later.

I'm working on a philosophy paper about taxation right now so you'll allow me a few moments to shift gears =D
 
I think an fMRI would show activiry in the same structures in the brain as those scanned when 'properly' in love. Personally I found being in love to be a hell of a lot more driven & almost obssessive than any such thing generated by MDMA.


I can't find any evidence that MDMA binds to any oxytocin receptor. I do find that 5HT1a stimulation causes the release.
Click to expand...

And what does MDMA do? It causes 5HT to pour out of the previous neuron, some of which will get into 5HT1a receptors...
 
^^ Yeah, real 'love' feelings doesn't hold a candle to MDMA... or any opiates or stimulants that I've tried.
 
^ Seriously? I've been in love twice, but the second time (mrs f&b) it was like being knocked off your feet by a tidal wave. I've never experienced anything like that before and unlike the few hours provided by MDMA, this was an ongoing thing for weeks, possibly even months that had a distinct set of physical symptoms (a lot in common with MDMA, such as nausea/vomiting through excitment). I still love her, but the raging torrent of the first few months has settled to a calm, but powerful river after 13 years (still with enough oomph to fill the odd flood plane every now and again! ;) )
 
Yep. I mean, if they did, I would be high on whatever it was almost 24/7. Nothing has ever had withdrawal like it either (most of the people I fall in love with don't care for me)... I actually kind of like coming down off of amphetamines, it's kind of a mellow introspective headspace after the storm, kind of like the smell of ozone. It's the only thing that's ever made me behave totally crazy and irrationally (mostly to the confusion of others)! Pretty obsessive stuff.

MDMA on the other hand tends to make me feel kind of drunk and very euphoric, but also very falsely and sinisterly so at the same time (and sometimes it's actually made my moods worse!).
 
Nothing ever seems to work quite as advertised in me. :)
 
fastandbulbous said:
And what does MDMA do? It causes 5HT to pour out of the previous neuron, some of which will get into 5HT1a receptors...
Click to expand...

That's what I meant, that MDMA causes stimulation of 5HT1a and releases oxytocin. I just can't find anything that says it actually has affinity for oxytocin receptors.
 
"A role for oxytocin and 5-HT1A receptors in the prosocial effects of 3,4 methylenedioxymethamphetamine ("ecstasy")."
Thompson, M. R.; Callaghan, P. D.; Hunt, G. E.; Cornish, J. L.; McGregor, I. S.
Neuroscience 2007, 146(2), pp.509-514

Abstract

The drug 3,4 methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA; ecstasy) has a widely documented ability to increase feelings of love and closeness toward others. The present study investigated whether oxytocin, a neuropeptide involved in affiliative behavior, may play a role in this effect. A moderate (5 mg/kg, i.p.) dose of MDMA increased social interaction in male Wistar rats, primarily by increasing the amt. of time rats spent lying adjacent to each other. MDMA (5 mg/kg) activated oxytocin-contg. neurons in the supraoptic and paraventricular nuclei of the hypothalamus, as shown by Fos immunohistochem. MDMA (5 mg/kg i.p.) also increased plasma oxytocin levels and this effect was prevented by pre-treatment with the 5-HT1A antagonist N-[2-[4-(2-methyoxyphenyl)-1-piperazinyl]ethyl]-N-2-pyridinylcyclohexanecarboxamide maleate salt (WAY 100,635; 1 mg/kg i.p.). The oxytocin receptor antagonist tocinoic acid (20 mg, i.c.v.) had no effect on social behavior when given alone but significantly attenuated the facilitation of social interaction produced by MDMA (5 mg/kg). The 5-HT1A agonist 8-hydroxy-2-(di-n-propylamino)-tetraline (8-OH-DPAT, 0.25 mg/kg, i.p.) increased social behavior in a similar way to MDMA and this effect was also significantly attenuated by tocinoic acid. Taken together, these results suggest that oxytocin release, stimulated by MDMA through 5-HT1A receptors, may play a key role in the prosocial effects of MDMA and underlie some of the reinforcing effects of the drug.
Click to expand...

If anybody has proof for direct agonism at the oxytocin-receptor, plz let me know!
 
Great article find Murphy! Thanks a bunch.

Now that's the basis for doing the study, but what I'm interested in is if there is a similar mechanism observable in feelings of being in love. It's a tricky thing to measure because love is, supposedly, a lasting all the time kind of thing. But at least in personal experience, the actual overwhelming feeling is sporadic and more likely when with the partner. So some sort of manipulation of feelings, such as distracting the subject, then bringing in their partner, and measuring oxytocin plasma levels. Then doing it again at a later time, but treated with 5-ht1a antagonist (Approval unlikely), to see if the feelings of love have to do with the same mechanism of oxytocin release stimulated by 5-ht1a activation?
 
It's all to do with serotonin. The excitement, the sense of connection, the empathy. Relationships end the "honeymoon" phase after a few months, as the chemicals slow their release.

I bet there is the same mechanism of oxytocin release in the MDMA similar chemicals like methylone,and other serotogenics. Less for things like 2CB because they are goofy on the serotonin receptors , but still to some extent, and least for things like LSD.
 
You sure you might not be on the autistic spectrum, Nuke?
If so, then, well hello there miss...=D

I am, and thats pretty damn close to how I feel about MDMA, sinister, thats a good word for it.
 
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