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MDMA & Adderall
- Thread starter deano88
- Start date
Flailing_Gypsy
Bluelighter
Hmmm not sure... I've only had (lots) of experience with Dexedrine, which is similar. They have a lot of similarities but I find MDMA wayyyy more relaxing and euphoric. I've taken dexedrine and MDMA at the same time and in my experience it was kind of a waste, I didn't really feel much of the dexedrine because the MDMA overpowered it and I'm pretty sure the added dexedrine is the reason I had a bit of a shitty comedown, whereas I usually never have shitty comedowns from MDMA.
First Bad Comedown
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2010
- Messages
- 562
Deano - bad combo.
I have read multiple reports just like the one above. ^
I have read others that claim the adderall overpowered the MDMA and made the ENTIRE roll shitty and pointless.
Dexedrine is weaker than adderall.
One user with experience claimed that adderall must be taken WELL in advance and allowed to peak before MDMA is taken.
If this is not followed, the adderall most certainly fucks up the roll.
The leading theory of MDMA neuotoxicity is that the metabolites of MDMA and dopamine are allowed into the SERT and 5-HT receptor.
This happens because serotonin levels are so depleted after rolling, and it causes the formation of peroxide!
METH increases the neurotoxicity of MDMA, supporting the idea that dopamine metabolites are involved.
And adderall is a pharmaceutical version of METH, my friend.
I highly recommend AGAINST this combo.
Taking the adderall in advance likely decreases the dopamine metabolites, but not enough to prevent damage.
Even adderall use on its own carries many risks.
Combining it will not give you the effect you are looking for anyways.
I recommend Piracetam.
Many BLers with experience have claimed it restored magic, where there was none before.
It also reduces the 'flooring' effects and increases the 'social' effects.
It potentiates adderall as well, by the way.
And it may offer neuroprotection from those nasty metabolites.
But the greatest control you have is on your DOSAGE of MDMA.
Taking more than 400mg in a night is considered WAY too much, and re-dosing is the easiest way to cause 'damage' to the serotonin network.
I have read multiple reports just like the one above. ^
I have read others that claim the adderall overpowered the MDMA and made the ENTIRE roll shitty and pointless.
Dexedrine is weaker than adderall.
One user with experience claimed that adderall must be taken WELL in advance and allowed to peak before MDMA is taken.
If this is not followed, the adderall most certainly fucks up the roll.
The leading theory of MDMA neuotoxicity is that the metabolites of MDMA and dopamine are allowed into the SERT and 5-HT receptor.
This happens because serotonin levels are so depleted after rolling, and it causes the formation of peroxide!
METH increases the neurotoxicity of MDMA, supporting the idea that dopamine metabolites are involved.
And adderall is a pharmaceutical version of METH, my friend.
I highly recommend AGAINST this combo.
Taking the adderall in advance likely decreases the dopamine metabolites, but not enough to prevent damage.
Even adderall use on its own carries many risks.
Combining it will not give you the effect you are looking for anyways.
I recommend Piracetam.
Many BLers with experience have claimed it restored magic, where there was none before.
It also reduces the 'flooring' effects and increases the 'social' effects.
It potentiates adderall as well, by the way.
And it may offer neuroprotection from those nasty metabolites.
But the greatest control you have is on your DOSAGE of MDMA.
Taking more than 400mg in a night is considered WAY too much, and re-dosing is the easiest way to cause 'damage' to the serotonin network.
Thanks for the very helpful advice! So is there a big difference between pharmaceutical drugs like adderal and street phet/base?
Cuz i have tried phet with mdma before and enjoyed it. Even tho the comedown was shitty but i get that from phet alone anyway it did increase the social effect but it was so long ago i tried it i kinda forgot what its like..
Cuz i have tried phet with mdma before and enjoyed it. Even tho the comedown was shitty but i get that from phet alone anyway it did increase the social effect but it was so long ago i tried it i kinda forgot what its like..
First Bad Comedown
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2010
- Messages
- 562
There is a difference, but they have a much more in common.
One carbon and three hydrogen atoms form the 'methyl' group, which binds to the nitrogen group found in amphetamine.
Adding this 'methyl' group increases the fat solubility of the amphetamine.
Why is this important?
Because the brain is made of fat.
So, 'meth' is capable of a much faster and deeper thrust into the brain.
But when it is metabolized by the body, it is essentially the same as amphetamine.
Both increase dopamine activity in the VTA, NA, and frontal lobes.
Both can cause severe negative side-effects like tachycardia, hypertension, heart-attack, stroke, death.
Both are highly addictive, and lead to dopamine receptor down-regulation.
Or dopamine neuron destruction, such as in the nigrostriatal pathway.
This region is important, because some MDMA users also display long-term (3 yr. +) depletions of dopamine in this region.
This is seen with 'degenerative' disorders and suggests that 'recovery' from MDMA may induce an ongoing DOPAMINE BLOCKADE.
It would explain some of the insanity, psychosis, depression, and anhedonia described by some users.
Adding 'meth' or 'phet', or even adderall, to MDMA may increase the damage to dopamine neurons in this region.
Whether or not this happens commonly - it is WELL established that it increases SERT toxicity.
Since dopamine neurons are more capable of recovery than dopamine, this is the greater concern.
And the greatest control you have over this concern is...
CONTROL YOUR MDMA DOSE.
I have spent a year recovering from my first 'mini-binge' and I have spread the word.
Re-dosing is something PROVEN to increase the damage seen in research.
A 'safe' dose, or one that fails to produce lasting and detectable changes, is 1-2 mg/kg.
For an average person this is ONE tab, or 150mg.
Tabs are often 200-300mg in weight, with an unknown percentage being 'fillers'.
Obviously adulterant are a grave concern, but the point is that ONE tab should be considered 150mg avg.
For a large person, 250 - 300mg MIGHT be considered 'safe'.
This is for TOTAL session exposure, not just an initial dose.
I have NEVER seen a researcher knowingly give a HUMAN more than 400 - 450mg.
Most subject receive between 75-150 mg with a small minority allowed over 300mg.
And you can bet this practice is considered very controversial by other scientists.
The gravest concern is for your serotonin system, otherwise known as the 'brain-gut' circuitry.
Serotonin is primarily found in the intestines, but in the brain it comprises the most dense and intricate of neurotransmitter systems.
MDMA does release dopamine, but METH or adderall will release a LOT more.
And this combination increases the damage to the serotonin system.
Yes, the comedown is going to be MUCH shittier.
You are likely to 'lose the magic' much more quickly, in fact some METH users cannot manage to 'roll' at all.
And you increase the chances of an 'acute' reaction to MDMA, which can land you in an ER...or a morgue.
Lowering body temperature is the first thing done with 'acute' cases, so I recommend that anyone combining these drugs do this anyways. Body temperature effectively modulates the 'toxicity' to higher serotonin neurons.
Drinking electrolytes improves the bodies ability to remove water from the bloodstream, something that is also compromised and even lethal in acute cases. A benzodiazapene can reduce tremors and protect organs from damage due to myoglobin released by dying muscle tissue. It also blocks glutamate toxicity in the brain, a factor in 'panic attacks'.
I know this is WAY more information than you asked for.
MDMA is only 'safe' if taken within a very narrow set of specifications.
Re-dosing is the cause of most 'brain damage' reports on BL - or at least it is the greatest factor.
Adderall is not as dirty as METH or 'phet' but it is still DIRTY.
I recommend against using it regularly.
Selegeline is a weak amphetamine that actually PROTECTS striatal dopamine neurons and the SERT.
Much safer combo.
If you take adderall while rolling, it will probably fuck up the euphoria.
Before the peak, it will increase anxiety for sure.
On the comedown, a SMALL partial dose might prolong the experience.
But for most MDMA users, MDMA is such a unique experience that adding another powerful stim just isn't necessary.
MDMA is DAMN powerful on its own.
One carbon and three hydrogen atoms form the 'methyl' group, which binds to the nitrogen group found in amphetamine.
Adding this 'methyl' group increases the fat solubility of the amphetamine.
Why is this important?
Because the brain is made of fat.
So, 'meth' is capable of a much faster and deeper thrust into the brain.
But when it is metabolized by the body, it is essentially the same as amphetamine.
Both increase dopamine activity in the VTA, NA, and frontal lobes.
Both can cause severe negative side-effects like tachycardia, hypertension, heart-attack, stroke, death.
Both are highly addictive, and lead to dopamine receptor down-regulation.
Or dopamine neuron destruction, such as in the nigrostriatal pathway.
This region is important, because some MDMA users also display long-term (3 yr. +) depletions of dopamine in this region.
This is seen with 'degenerative' disorders and suggests that 'recovery' from MDMA may induce an ongoing DOPAMINE BLOCKADE.
It would explain some of the insanity, psychosis, depression, and anhedonia described by some users.
Adding 'meth' or 'phet', or even adderall, to MDMA may increase the damage to dopamine neurons in this region.
Whether or not this happens commonly - it is WELL established that it increases SERT toxicity.
Since dopamine neurons are more capable of recovery than dopamine, this is the greater concern.
And the greatest control you have over this concern is...
CONTROL YOUR MDMA DOSE.
I have spent a year recovering from my first 'mini-binge' and I have spread the word.
Re-dosing is something PROVEN to increase the damage seen in research.
A 'safe' dose, or one that fails to produce lasting and detectable changes, is 1-2 mg/kg.
For an average person this is ONE tab, or 150mg.
Tabs are often 200-300mg in weight, with an unknown percentage being 'fillers'.
Obviously adulterant are a grave concern, but the point is that ONE tab should be considered 150mg avg.
For a large person, 250 - 300mg MIGHT be considered 'safe'.
This is for TOTAL session exposure, not just an initial dose.
I have NEVER seen a researcher knowingly give a HUMAN more than 400 - 450mg.
Most subject receive between 75-150 mg with a small minority allowed over 300mg.
And you can bet this practice is considered very controversial by other scientists.
The gravest concern is for your serotonin system, otherwise known as the 'brain-gut' circuitry.
Serotonin is primarily found in the intestines, but in the brain it comprises the most dense and intricate of neurotransmitter systems.
MDMA does release dopamine, but METH or adderall will release a LOT more.
And this combination increases the damage to the serotonin system.
Yes, the comedown is going to be MUCH shittier.
You are likely to 'lose the magic' much more quickly, in fact some METH users cannot manage to 'roll' at all.
And you increase the chances of an 'acute' reaction to MDMA, which can land you in an ER...or a morgue.
Lowering body temperature is the first thing done with 'acute' cases, so I recommend that anyone combining these drugs do this anyways. Body temperature effectively modulates the 'toxicity' to higher serotonin neurons.
Drinking electrolytes improves the bodies ability to remove water from the bloodstream, something that is also compromised and even lethal in acute cases. A benzodiazapene can reduce tremors and protect organs from damage due to myoglobin released by dying muscle tissue. It also blocks glutamate toxicity in the brain, a factor in 'panic attacks'.
I know this is WAY more information than you asked for.
MDMA is only 'safe' if taken within a very narrow set of specifications.
Re-dosing is the cause of most 'brain damage' reports on BL - or at least it is the greatest factor.
Adderall is not as dirty as METH or 'phet' but it is still DIRTY.
I recommend against using it regularly.
Selegeline is a weak amphetamine that actually PROTECTS striatal dopamine neurons and the SERT.
Much safer combo.
If you take adderall while rolling, it will probably fuck up the euphoria.
Before the peak, it will increase anxiety for sure.
On the comedown, a SMALL partial dose might prolong the experience.
But for most MDMA users, MDMA is such a unique experience that adding another powerful stim just isn't necessary.
MDMA is DAMN powerful on its own.
You know what Im gonna take your advice and not bother with that combo. You been really helpful.
I just been looking up Piracetam on erowid too, all i can say is i will defo be looking on trying it soon and also combining it with mdma.
Thanks for the advice mate
I just been looking up Piracetam on erowid too, all i can say is i will defo be looking on trying it soon and also combining it with mdma.
Thanks for the advice mate
First Bad Comedown
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2010
- Messages
- 562
Excellent.
Makes the typing worth it...
Piracetam advice:
http://www.amazon.com/Piracetam-Powder-Serious-Nutrition-Solutions/dp/tags-on-product/B004M4BT46
This is the best price I could find on the internet, after substantial searches.
I have no idea if it is available for shipping to the UK, and what that does to the price.
Other racetams exist, some of them much stronger.
Also much more expensive...
And Piracetam is backed by substantial research showing NO toxicity even in huge doses.
It is well-tolerated in children with head-traumas or elderly with strokes.
Long-term use cannot be declared absolutely safe, but this is true of most things in life.
It can cause mild anxiety, agitation, or argumentativeness in the first few hours after taking it.
Once this passes, its mental stimulating effects are profound and last for many hours.
Most people describe a sudden rush of increased verbal acuity, writing skills, or ability to study/memorize.
But there is a transition before you reach this point.
I do not recommend taking it with the MDMA.
It needs to be taken AT LEAST 4 hours prior.
Several reports on BL exist that indicate NO euphoria this way.
In fact, they describe utter sobriety.
It is a wasted dose of MDMA.
Most people claim taking it a few hours before-hand is adequate.
Others find that it is MOST effective if taken for a day or two in advance.
I agree with this finding, and I have LOTS of experience taking it for 'recovery' this last year.
The first two days of taking it were ALWAYS the brightest, most intense euphoria.
By day three or four, it was simply a stable ongoing stimulation.
If I were to take it again, it would be 1600mg the day before, split into two doses.
Then about 4 hours before rolling, I would take another 800mg.
I believe that the drug has to penetrate lower portions of the intestinal tract in order to reach full potential.
This takes time, more time than a few hours.
Then about 3-4 hours after my MDMA, when the comedown has begun, I would take another 1600mg all at once.
This will lead to more stimulation but will likely clear up ALL of the comedown symptoms.
Most people that pre-load with Piracetam claim that it virtually eliminates the comedown entirely.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Good luck.
Makes the typing worth it...
Piracetam advice:
http://www.amazon.com/Piracetam-Powder-Serious-Nutrition-Solutions/dp/tags-on-product/B004M4BT46
This is the best price I could find on the internet, after substantial searches.
I have no idea if it is available for shipping to the UK, and what that does to the price.
Other racetams exist, some of them much stronger.
Also much more expensive...
And Piracetam is backed by substantial research showing NO toxicity even in huge doses.
It is well-tolerated in children with head-traumas or elderly with strokes.
Long-term use cannot be declared absolutely safe, but this is true of most things in life.
It can cause mild anxiety, agitation, or argumentativeness in the first few hours after taking it.
Once this passes, its mental stimulating effects are profound and last for many hours.
Most people describe a sudden rush of increased verbal acuity, writing skills, or ability to study/memorize.
But there is a transition before you reach this point.
I do not recommend taking it with the MDMA.
It needs to be taken AT LEAST 4 hours prior.
Several reports on BL exist that indicate NO euphoria this way.
In fact, they describe utter sobriety.
It is a wasted dose of MDMA.
Most people claim taking it a few hours before-hand is adequate.
Others find that it is MOST effective if taken for a day or two in advance.
I agree with this finding, and I have LOTS of experience taking it for 'recovery' this last year.
The first two days of taking it were ALWAYS the brightest, most intense euphoria.
By day three or four, it was simply a stable ongoing stimulation.
If I were to take it again, it would be 1600mg the day before, split into two doses.
Then about 4 hours before rolling, I would take another 800mg.
I believe that the drug has to penetrate lower portions of the intestinal tract in order to reach full potential.
This takes time, more time than a few hours.
Then about 3-4 hours after my MDMA, when the comedown has begun, I would take another 1600mg all at once.
This will lead to more stimulation but will likely clear up ALL of the comedown symptoms.
Most people that pre-load with Piracetam claim that it virtually eliminates the comedown entirely.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Good luck.
So are you sayin that combining it with mdma will diminish the effect of the mdma if you take both at the same time?
I thought Piracetam came in pill or capsule form can you get it this way at all? Would be more convenient.
Edit: just looked it up and realised can get it in pills. Cheers
I thought Piracetam came in pill or capsule form can you get it this way at all? Would be more convenient.
Edit: just looked it up and realised can get it in pills. Cheers
First Bad Comedown
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2010
- Messages
- 562
Yes, that is basically what I am saying.
The onset of the Piracetam isn't the same type of 'anxiety' caused by MDMA or stimulants.
But it IS one of the MOST stimulating drugs that is NOT a stim.
Make sense?
Its ability to facilitate studying is rivaled only by adderall, among college students.
For some reason, it seems to diminish the cortisol response typical of MDMA comeup.
This is probably due to rapid redistribution of the massive serotonin surge.
But these two statements come entirely from my opinion, whereas just about everything else I say has scientific evidence behind it.
I never got to use Piracetam for rolling, but many have complained about wasting a pill because of it.
And the timing is the reason why.
I can tell you that during the first 4 months of recovery, a VERY hard time for me, Piracetam would actually FEEL like ecstasy.
Ok, to qualify...
During the first 2-3 days of taking it (each cycle) it was pretty incredible.
I cycled many times throughout the year - but I never needed more than microdoses. 200mg/day was plenty.
It made my vision more acute, colors brighter, skin more sensitive, pleasurable chills up my spine, and powerful emotional relief from suffering.
It increases serotonin and dopamine preferentially in the prefrontal cortex.
This is the highest evolved brain region, and is a primary target of MDMA's action.
But this preferential increase in the PFC must occur PRIOR to MDMA consumption.
A few reports exist of people taking it simultaneously without complaint, but many exist calling it a 'wasted' pill.
Let us know how it turns out.
The onset of the Piracetam isn't the same type of 'anxiety' caused by MDMA or stimulants.
But it IS one of the MOST stimulating drugs that is NOT a stim.
Make sense?
Its ability to facilitate studying is rivaled only by adderall, among college students.
For some reason, it seems to diminish the cortisol response typical of MDMA comeup.
This is probably due to rapid redistribution of the massive serotonin surge.
But these two statements come entirely from my opinion, whereas just about everything else I say has scientific evidence behind it.
I never got to use Piracetam for rolling, but many have complained about wasting a pill because of it.
And the timing is the reason why.
I can tell you that during the first 4 months of recovery, a VERY hard time for me, Piracetam would actually FEEL like ecstasy.
Ok, to qualify...
During the first 2-3 days of taking it (each cycle) it was pretty incredible.
I cycled many times throughout the year - but I never needed more than microdoses. 200mg/day was plenty.
It made my vision more acute, colors brighter, skin more sensitive, pleasurable chills up my spine, and powerful emotional relief from suffering.
It increases serotonin and dopamine preferentially in the prefrontal cortex.
This is the highest evolved brain region, and is a primary target of MDMA's action.
But this preferential increase in the PFC must occur PRIOR to MDMA consumption.
A few reports exist of people taking it simultaneously without complaint, but many exist calling it a 'wasted' pill.
Let us know how it turns out.
I'd avoid it. I take Adderall XR 40mg on a regular basis - not on weekends, but when I need it - and if I take it too close to the date I plan to roll, I usually don't get as much of an effect and have an awful comedown. Taking Adderall the day after can also have negative results, or at least it did for me.