I really need to stick to my plan of taking it on the 14th unless it will cause serious permanent damage and be a completely non-euphoric experience but the threshold amount made me hopeful and also felt like it didn't cause much tolerance problems. Of course I don't know this other than assuming I'm fine. If it's terrible I can wait longe but I really don't want to miss the opportunity to roll with my friend I never see (we've been planning for weeks). If I did do this, what preload/postload would you suggest to increase the effects of my roll and decrease neurotoxicity. Also, if the tolerance is an issue would taking a mocrodose of lsd potentiate the effects of a 130mg initial hit of mdma with a 60mg booster an hour later? Just any thoughts at all would really really be appreciated.
Greetings Nitz233.
There is a lot of literature regarding pre-loading and post-loading before and after taking empathogens. I found a post in drugs-forum quite interesting, someone has taken the trouble to give some advice on the best supplements.
I'm going to copy it here to serve as a guide for you and other users.
PRE-LOADING
The idea behind pre-loading is to elevate the level of antioxidants available to the brain before MDMA causes increased oxidation, hopefully combatting it before it even begins to hapen. In addition to antioxidants, it is a good idea to take some other supplements to combat the less dangerous but still harmful side effects of MDMA.
Here is a list of common supplements used during pre-loading:
ANTIOXIDANTS
Vitamin C (ascorbic acid)
Sources: Countless generic Vitamin C pills or multivitamins, many fresh fruits and vegetables
Recommended dose: 500mg-2000mg
How it works: an antioxidant, will help reduce oxidation. Thought to recycle unused Vitamin E.
Notes: a water-soluble vitamin, any excess will be excreted in the urine. However this means it doesn't stay in the body very long. Most of it is gone after 3 or 4 hours. This is why it should be taken multiple times during an
MDMA session. However, as an acid, too much can cause stomach problems (ie diarrhea, indigestion, heartburn). An overdose is extremely unlikely, but too much can cause
side effects which will make the experience less enjoyable. A good idea is to pre-load with 1000mg and post-load with the same, although some users find it produces nausea if taken during post-load. Know how your body will react before supplementing during an actual session. In addition, ascorbic acid is obviously acidic, and a more acidic environment is not conducive to
MDMAabsorption. However, my dog has never noticed the slightest decrease in
MDMA awesomeness due to taking this supplement.
Vitamin E (tocopherol)
Sources: supplements, some foods such as eggs, avocado, spinach, some nuts
Recommended dose: 200-400 IU
How it works: an anti-oxidant, will prevent oxidation.
Notes: a fat-soluble vitamin, it leaves the body much more slowly than a water-soluble vitamin (ie ascorbic acid). Risk of overdose is higher, especially since supplementing usually involves taking more than the recommended dosage. It is probably quite safe to go to at least 1000 IU a day, and the risk of overdose is significantly decreased if the vitamin is only taken for one day (ie for one
MDMA session and not as a continued high-dose supplement). Too much Vitamin E can cause stomach problems, fatigue, and headache. Again, test yourself before experimenting during an actual session.
Grape seed extract
Sources: grapes (duh), supplements
Recommended dose: 50-100mg
How it works: contains antioxidants, will reduce oxidation.
Notes: Grape seed extract is a very long lasting antioxidant, a half life (how long until half of it is broken down or out of the body) of about 7 hours. Therefore it is really only necessary to take this during pre-loading as an
MDMA session usually only lasts about 6 hours.
Side effects (quite uncommon): headache, nausea, stomach pain. Theoretically could increase the risk of internal bleeding, so be careful if you have any health issues such as a bleeding disorder.
ALA (alpha-lipoic acid)
Sources: red meats*, yeast, supplements
Recommended dose: 600mg-3000mg
How it works: an antioxidant, will reduce oxidation.
Notes: water and fat soluble, a very strong antioxidant as it can work pretty much everywhere. Short half life.
Coenzyme Q10
Sources: some fish, ie mackerel, sardines, salmon, tuna; supplements
Recommended dose: 50mg-300mg
How it works: an antioxidant, will reduce oxidation. Necessary for healthy mitochondrial (mitochondria are a cell's source of energy) functioning.
Notes: fat soluble, half life of over a day, therefore only necessary to take during pre-loading. At higher doses, effectiveness decreases as dosage increases.
Other supplements
Magnesium
Source: green vegetables, some legumes, nuts, and whole grains; supplements
Recommended dose: 400-1000mg
How it works: A common side effect of
stimulants (including
MDMA) is
bruxism (jaw-clenching). Magnesium helps relax muscles.
Notes: Be careful with dosing this one. Excess magnesium can cause diarrhea and abdominal cramping. Couple with dehydration this can make for some nasty
side effects. Again, determine what an acceptable dose is for yourself before mixing with
MDMA. No one wants to have to sit on the toilet all night when they could be out on the dance floor.
5-HTP (5-hydroxytryptophan)/trytophan
Sources:
5-HTP can only really be found in supplements. It is the precursor (the chemical involved in the reaction which produces another chemical, ie
serotonin) to
serotonin. Tryptophan, the immediate precursor to
5-HTP, can be found in turkey, dairy products, eggs, nuts, and some fruits (notably bananas, which are delicious).
Recommended dose: Tryptophan supplementation is much less common than
5-HTP supplementation, so that is what will be discussed. Why supplement with the precursor to the precursor when you can skip a step and make it easier for your body? As stated previously,
5-HTP is the precursor to
serotonin. Therefore it needs to be converted to
serotonin by the body before it has any effect. It takes a few hours for this conversion to happen, and only taking it during preloading the day of a session won't have a significant effect.
5-HTP has been shown to increase
serotonin levels in mice, and presumably this would help with
depression... but
depression is (most likely) a result of constant low levels of
serotonin, therefore
5-HTP should be doses continuously also. It is recommended to take 100-200mg a day for at least a few days prior to the experience.
How it works: Basically provides more raw material for the production of
serotonin.
Notes: Artificially increasing
serotonin levels may put a user at risk of developing
serotonin syndrome (basically a
serotonin overdose- NOT a good thing) when combined with
MDMA. There is really only anecdotal evidence concerning this supplement. Many users have reported no effects, others have reported ill effects, and some stand by the claim that it definitely contributes to the
MDMA experience. Only you can decide. Personally, my dog would not recommend bothering with this one at all during pre-loading to be safe... definitely go for it during post-loading though, no risk of potentially fatal
side effects. One study (
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7934616), showed neuroprotective effects, but this is about the only publication my dog could find.
Antacids (ie Tums, Rolaids)
Sources: Don't bother with trying to eat foods which have anti-acidic properties. Just buy some Tums.
Recommended dose: 400-2000mg (perhaps 2 or 3 Tums is a good choice)
How it works: This is tricky. Acidity inhibits the absorption of
amphetamines. The point of taking antacids is to reduce the acidity of the stomach, increasing absorption of the
MDMA. Tums and Rolaids both contain the compound CaCO3, which (my dog believes) breaks down into Ca+2 and CO3-2 (a weak base) in the stomach. However, like the brain, the stomach also works hard to maintain equilibrium (in this case a very acidic environment), therefore if one eats a bunch of basic (opposite of acidic) substances, the stomach will work harder to bring the acidity level back to normal, perhaps actually momentarily increasing stomach acidity. Antacids containing carbonate (ie the CO3 in Tums and Rolaids) usually take about 30 minutes to begin doing their duty, therefore it is recommended to take them with the
MDMA rather than a small time before. My dog hasn't had enough experience with
MDMA to conclude whether this has any real effect or not, but perhaps other users can offer some input.
Grapefruit juice
Sources: grapefruits... or grapefruits in juice form.
Recommended dose: A big tall glass.
How it works: It is generally accepted that grapefruit inhibits an enzyme (a substance which helps a reaction take place) which breaks down many recreational drugs, ie
MDMA... but this is wrong. Grapefruit juice does potentiate
MDMA (among many other drugs), but by a different mechanism. My dog won't get into the details as it would twist many people brains, but here is a great thread Paracelsus posted about the subject if one would like to delve further into it:
https://drugs-forum.com/threads/32404&highlight=grapefruit+juice
Notes: While grapefruit juice can definitely increase
MDMA bioavailability (a measure of the amount of a
drug which actually contributes to a physiological response), it may be counteracted by the fact that grapefruit juice is very acidic (about a pH of 3 on a scale of 1-14, 1 being the most acidic). My dog hasn't read anything specific about this dilemma, and he hasn't had enough experience to make a conclusion. Again, who knows what's best for you? You do! Be the guinea pig.
Piracetam
Sources: supplements
Recommended dose: 1000mg-4000mg a day for days or weeks before an
MDMA session
How it works: The exact mechanism of action of
piracetam, a
drug originally developed to slow the progression of such mentally deteriorating diseases as Alzheimer's or alcoholism, is not completely known. It is thought to enhance cognition and memory, as well as increase blood flow in the brain. Many experiences posted on Erowid champion the use of this
drug, claiming it enhances the experience, perhaps reduces tolerance. My dog couldn't find any publications on this subject and doesn't expect to...
piracetam is a relatively new and understudied
drug, most people have never even heard of it. My dog says that he has personally tried this (dosing for 4 or 5 days before an
MDMA experience) and can say his third roll was just as good if not better than his first, both were similar doses. He has only had three though so cannot give a real conclusion. ONLY YOU HOLD THE POWER TO DECIDE.
There are MANY more possible supplements. This is merely a list of the most common, perhaps most effective ones. Any combination of supplements can be taken. Perhaps one is sensitive to magnesium but always has a sore jaw after an experience... look for another supplement which can induce muscle relaxation, or simply bring a pacifier (if you're into that... my dog thinks these are best given to babies)! Can't afford expensive anti-oxidants like ALA or grapeseed extract? Eat an orange. Guinea pigs!
H2O (WATER!)
This is the most important supplement of all. Drink lots of it! All the time!
MDMA causes dehydration and increased heart rate (the heart is working super hard), dancing causes dehydration (and works the heart even harder), and those who drink
alcohol with
MDMA (which my dog hears is quite common... doesn't understand why anyone would want to cloud the experience) are dehydrating themselves even more. This can be a dangerous combination. Drink at least a 20oz bottle or so every hour, especially if a guinea pig is dancing really hard. What about too much water? Risk of hyponatremia (basically a water overdose) is quite low, but still possible. In fact, in terms of deaths associated with
MDMA this is really one of the only things to worry about, aside from polydrug (more than one
drug) use and dehydration. Possible hyponatremia is easily combatted by drinking something with electrolytes (ie Gatorade) which will not disturb the body's salt balance as much.
Sample pre-loading regimen
(my dog's ideal recipe)
Every day for approximately a week or more prior to the experience:
4000mg Piracetam (2000mg 2x a day)
Anywhere from 1 hr to at the time of MDMA ingestion (MDMA usually takes approximately 30-60 minutes to work its magic):
1000mg Vitamin C
400 IU Vitamin E
50 mg Co-Q10
600mg ALA
400mg magnesium (too much hurts his tummy)
And finally, 2-3 tums at the time or about half an hour prior to MDMA ingestion (my dog proposes that if he takes the Tums 30 minutes before ingestion, the levels of base will be relatively high when he ingests the MDMA)
Guinea pigs: see what works best for you! Theoretical knowledge is great, but experience is just as important.
POST-LOADING
There are really two "post-loads"... my dog defines the first as perhaps 3-6 hours after
MDMA ingestion, and the second as the day/night (depending on when the
MDMA was taken) and a few days after the experience.
First post-load (about 3-6 hours after MDMA ingestion, or as soon as possible after that)
Since after 3-6 hours
MDMA is still potentially toxifying nerve cells, many of the supplements should still be used. Antioxidants (in the same, higher, or lower doses- YOU DECIDE) are still a good idea, just be careful with fat-solubles such as Vitamin E... chances of something terrible happening are miniscule, but it is still good to practice
harm reduction of
harm reduction! Some users complain of stomach cramps when post-loading with Vitamin C (talk to your guinea pig). Magnesium is also a good idea if guinea pigs think they are having jaw issues. Now, my dog thinks, is the best time for
5-HTP supplementation. As
serotonin is quite depleted, giving the body more raw
serotonin material can only help. Perhaps 100-200mg at this time, and more the following few days (discussed soon).
If one's guinea pig has it available, perhaps think about something like Prozac (
fluoxetine), or
Celexa (
citalopram), both SSRI's (selective-serotonin reuptake inhibitor). SSRI's have a high (ie higher than
dopamine) affinity (attraction) for
serotonin transporters. Since the theory behind
MDMAneurotoxicity concerns the reuptake of
dopamine after
serotonin depletion, perhaps
fluoxetine can prevent this reuptake, as when it binds to
serotonintransporters it sticks and it is difficult for things to get back into the cell (hence why it is used to treat depression- it inhibits the reuptake of
serotonin[which regulates mood], increasing the
serotonin concentration in the synapse).
DO NOT take SSRI's before using
MDMA. Well, if your guinea pig wants to, go ahead. But he probably won't feel much, if anything.
Most importantly, hydrate! My dog thinks
MDMA and humans are a match made in heaven, but physiologically they don't really like each other. Give your heart a helping hand by replenishing it with delicious liquids.
Sample first post-load regimen:
(again my dog's ideal)
1000mg Vitamin C
400 IU Vitamin E
400mg magnesium if his jaw is uncontrollable
600mg ALA
Second post-load (after returning to baseline and the day after)
Now the experience is over. But it was awesome right? You had fun, but your body and brain didn't. Depending on what time it is and whether you have an appetite, eat a nutritious (and large) meal. Spoil yourself, but spoil yourself with classy things. Eat some fish (omega fatty acids promote brain health), a pound of salad, a fresh fruit smoothie, etc. It's not that hard to make a great tasting meal which also helps your body. My dog enjoys a huge bowl of whole grain cereal and bananas, plus a plateful of veggies and some sort of protein (but he is a vegetarian and has some pretty odd eating habits).
Most likely it is too late to eat/you aren't hungry. Go to sleep! Sleep well. Again, spoil yourself. It's ok to live a little, but good things come at a price... your body did all the work, now give it some rest.
In the morning, keep the nutritious mindset. Eat a large breakfast, stay hydrated, and continue to be healthy for the rest of the day and the next few days. Maybe even do some exercise! The only supplement my dog would suggest for the days after an experience is
5-HTP, at the doses recommended in previous sections of this post.
Sample second post-load regimen
A LOT OF FOOD. Food at night, food in the morning, food all day. Drink a ton too! Perhaps start a few days of
5-HTP supplementation, especially if your guinea pig thinks he might suffer a case of the Tuesday blues.
Hope this helps! Much of the information in this post was drawn from simple google searches (ie supplement sources), some is from personal and peer experience. However, much of the science is published. My dog uploaded a few articles and from which he drew conclusions, for example the theory behind
MDMA neurotoxicity.
WillowOne created a comprehensive week-long regimen
here.
Stay safe!
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
