• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio

MDAI impurities

i see...so you suggest heptane for the wash, followed by cold precipitation, right?

i was searching for an easier to find solvent for the same job

i know vendors are now popping out from nowhere, some selling both "brown" and "white" mdai. that's ridiculous!

at first i trusted only the asian one.. but if that's what they sell...
now i want to take out as much as possible from my "dogshit".

after all this, the real color of the real mdai should be white.
good to know... hope that 50% brown stuff isn't something too toxic btw...

Decent purity heptane is available in craft stores under a certain brand name. I'll leave the digging as an exercise for the reader - i don't think we want them getting a rep as the go-to solvent for recreational drug users.

Which batch of dogshit do you have? Dogshit freebase or dogshit HCl? the salt needs to be converted to the free base, and then all the water removed, prior to processing. Water gets absorbed into the brown and the whole thing turns into a godawful mess which confounds extraction.
 
Someone compared the tan and really clean MDAI crystal sourced from an indian lab, and reported that the white stuff was much better. That suggests that the tan stuff has gotten most of the brown out, but left the white stuff in. He also reported that the MDAI crystal was easilly and fully water soluble, while the tan stuff was not (the white impurity identified above is not water soluble).

In any case, it's now only of academic importance, as multiple vendors have clean MDAI, and more will have it in the next few weeks, for half the price that the dogshit was going for.

Academic? Are you kidding?

In the interests of harm reduction I must point out that your conclusion is highly misguided, with all due respect. How can anyone say that subjectively "the white stuff was much better" when no one has yet scientifically proven that the "white MDAI" is even MDAI? Are you really going to take this "someone's" word for it? Are you really going to take a vendor's word for it, when those same vendors selling the white MDAI are also selling NRG-1 which has been tested multiple times and proven to contain all kinds of bizarre substances. Not to mention that while one vendor may indeed have actual white MDAI, other vendors are probably selling fake white MDAI. Who's to know which is which? Such is the pathetic state of the UK RC market these days.

In fact there are multiple reports here on BL and elsewhere with people reporting very unusual and disturbing side effects with the white MDAI which are not at all consistent with actual MDAI. Why are people still presuming it's MDAI? I don't get it!

Say, in my closet I've got a box of rat poison which is pure white, and perhaps if I test it it comes out at 99% pure -- so should I ingest it? Of course not, but I mean, that is literally what you guys are doing here. No one knows what the hell the stuff actually is, but you say, "ah, but see, it's got fewer impurities so clearly it's a better product". WTF?

The only vendor providing actual analysis of MDAI is selling the brown stuff, and that asian vendor has publicly challenged customers to do their own tests and prove their tests are faked. Even with best intentions in mind, anyone doing kitchen tlc on these compounds shouldn't waste their time if they can't do it properly.

Simply put: stating that the "white MDAI" has fewer impurities does NOT mean it's MDAI. Please someone run an NMR on the white AND the brown before drawing any conclusions. Or maybe we should wait for the Scottish Police to do all the work for us again?
 
This thread is absurd.

Since nobody seemed to notice I mentioned this before...the free MDAI base is an oil, I refuse to believe anyone outside the lab producing it would deal with anything other than the hcl salt. I'd love to be proven wrong by someone posting a picture of this freebase and why they think it's the free base, in which case I'll happily admit to being mistaken.
 
Last edited:
@Nevada: Please upload your NMR (1H, I assume) of what you think is MDAI and we shall discuss further. If you have any else kind of analytical data - please post it here, too.

If have not seen it personally, but MDAI-freebase is most probably an oil, yes Sir! That's what chemical common sense is telling me.


Am I the only one who got the shivers when people are talking about smoking 'dogshit'?


PEACE! - Murphy
 
@Nevada: Please upload your NMR (1H, I assume) of what you think is MDAI and we shall discuss further. If you have any else kind of analytical data - please post it here, too.

If have not seen it personally, but MDAI-freebase is most probably an oil, yes Sir! That's what chemical common sense is telling me.


Am I the only one who got the shivers when people are talking about smoking 'dogshit'?


PEACE! - Murphy

i guess i can't upload since i'm greenlighter, but the nmr in question (yes is 1h) is provided by the vendor(asian one) and i guess its against rules to post vendor name.

btw, if you know the vendor we're talking about, you can download it by yourself on theyr analysis page
on their nmr there are evident peaks of such impurity. it's the first on their list,its an analisys from a 3rd party lab.


another thing. if mdai freebase is an oil, then, just converting it from hcl would lead to a suspension in which the impurities are sinked on the bottom and the oil(mdai) is on the surface?
 
Last edited:
1. No, I do not know the vendor (not interested either). Please upload to a free file hosting service (like MediaFire) and post the link. I'd be interested to see how dirty this one is

2. I think you have a wrong idea about how salts are formed. In this case, I'd think it would be recommendable to dissolve the free base in an inert solvent (like tert-butylmethylether) and apply gaseous HCl. The formed hydrochloride should precipitate and can be filtered off. No suspension at all, Sir.


- Murphy
 
Thanks a lot for the NMR. Looks genuine IMHO, but again impure. See in particular the signals in the aromatic range at 6.2, 6.7, 7.2 and 8.9 ppm, which are labeled with "Im".

Apart from this there is a little bit solvent left (e.g. @1.0 ppm).


Peace! - Murphy
 
yeah, that was my opinion too, genuine but impure. i may be wrong , but an 8%impurity could be compatible to that spectrum

they say its 92 % purity (which is a quite bit low, at least in the rc market i never saw purities below 98% )

there is no way to identify the impurity from those signals?
 
That NMR was not taken with the material that vendor is selling - they must have purified it further before they sent it out for NMR.
Unless they cleaned up their act recently, that vendor's MDAI is the worst on the market.

Nevada:

Freebase MDAI is a white solid (as are a large number of freebases). It is most definitely not a liquid at room temperature. The active component that I separated from the freebase MDAI (dogshit batch) from our friends in asia is a white solid which is soluble in acidified water. The tan stuff similarly does not produce any sort of "oil" when a solution of it is made basic, just the standard suspension of solid particles.

Could dissolve the tan stuff in water (note, not all of it will dissolve), decant the aqueous phase, and then basify it and extract with heptane (or filter it in some way). My plan is just to shitcan all the old MDAI once I get a sample of the good white stuff.


Stafos:

There has been fake white MDAI, fake NRG1 and fake all sorts of stuff. That fact has been established, and observed with a number of the mass market research chemicals. It is in no way specific to MDAI, and is in no way related to impurities in MDAI. There are now several sources with legit white MDAI. I'll see if i can get NMR results.

The report I reference was with regards to white MDAI, produced by a reputable (non-chinese) lab, tested by a reliable individual. The tester found it to be qualitatively similar, but significantly stronger than the tan MDAI - there's no reason to believe that it was not MDAI - especially since white material of the same potency can be extracted from dirty batches of MDAI.
 
Last edited:
That NMR was not taken with the material that vendor is selling - they must have purified it further before they sent it out for NMR. Unless they cleaned up their act recently, that vendor's MDAI is the worst on the market.
Azo, so assuming that test IS valid, wouldn't you also agree that the impurities might actually be about 8%, as the vendor claims on their site? To my knowledge none of the "white MDAI" vendors have posted any analysis whatsoever. The only known test is not available publicly and is apparently from some guy you know who you reported as saying it was "stronger", although I didn't realize NMRs provided that kind of info.

This week the BBC tested a bunch of different MDAI packs sold in the UK and found out none of them were actually MDAI, in fact they couldn't even determine what it was - it was some chemical they had never come across before.

On the brown MDAI vendor's analysis page it says (MODS: I'm paraphrasing here, not direct quoting from the site):

We do not fake our reports or clean our product before testing. All tests are made by an independent lab in the USA and are from the batch for sale right now.​

In light of these facts, maybe we all need to stop and take a deep breath and try to be fair and balanced in our analysis of these products. For a start, stop badmouthing vendors who seem to be offering up ample evidence to support their product, while blindly giving the benefit of the doubt to those vendors who don't.
 
That nmr doesn't look too bad, and those impurity signals could actually be due to some borked up shimming on the instrument. What bothers me is the peak labeled for proton b doesn't show any splitting when it most definitely should be coupled to protons c1 and c2.
 
Freebase MDAI is a white solid (as are a large number of freebases). It is most definitely not a liquid at room temperature. The active component that I separated from the freebase MDAI (dogshit batch) from our friends in asia is a white solid which is soluble in acidified water.

You should probably re-phrase that or at least read it carefully.

There has been fake white MDAI, fake NRG1 and fake all sorts of stuff. That fact has been established...There are now several sources with legit white MDAI. I'll see if i can get NMR results.

When the BMJ published findings based on the analysis of 17 samples of MDAI/NRG1/NRG2/dimethocaine from 12 different vendors, the fact was established that only one sample was the substance expected, and none of them were MDAI.

Given the circumstances, what are the odds that the substance you described above was MDAI and what convinced you there are several sources of it now? NMR is a mystery to me anyway.
 
That nmr doesn't look too bad, and those impurity signals could actually be due to some borked up shimming on the instrument. What bothers me is the peak labeled for proton b doesn't show any splitting when it most definitely should be coupled to protons c1 and c2.

I have to disagree. The NMR looks bad (quite an impressive baseline). It is quite unlikely that the impurity signals stem from amateurish shimming, and even though, it wouldn't be a good sign anyway.
The resolution of this spectrum is not the best and I guess that the signal for proton b is actually split, but the separate signals are fused to one (broad!) signal.

- Murphy
 
Ehh, I've seen worse get published. But yeah, looking at it again really zoomed in it does look like those impurity signals are in fact real. Still though, wonder why they they looked at the salt and not the freebase
 
When the BMJ published findings based on the analysis of 17 samples of MDAI/NRG1/NRG2/dimethocaine from 12 different vendors, the fact was established that only one sample was the substance expected, and none of them were MDAI.

I read about this the other day, very disturbing. Definitely not ordering anything from the U.K. or thereabouts anytime in the near future. The article I read said the chemicals they tested as MDAI were completely unknown.... even more disturbing... Has anyone here seen analysis of these "unknown" chemicals?
 
Top