Materialistic view of life by today's people.

[malakaix]

through meeting more and more hippies Ive been disapointed and experianced disillusionment. I thought I was supposed to be the one attached to materialistic pursuits and sensory pleasures and etc. Turns out Im one of the few people who even seek true enlightenment. Most people seem to do it for the popularity or just the notion of it as part of an anti-mainstream yet mainstream scene.

I hang around a lot of 'self labeled' hippies, there alot of fun to hang out with.. but they are the biggest walking talking contradiction i've ever met. I love the irony in them emphasizing 'fuck the system' while smoking a cigarette, drinking a beer and owning there own car or van.

Everything in life can be enjoyed in balance.

Especially in recent guys Ive met, they seem to want the appeal of a psuedo-intellectual deep thinker to impress girls.

I know a guy exactly like this, he 'acts' very cultured and deep to pick up girls, where he's anything but, but he's so caught up in his own delusions that he can't see past it.

 

[peepsqueek1]

its not you dennis, theres been an influx of males recently in my life

 

[naginnudej]

I hang around a lot of 'self labeled' hippies, there alot of fun to hang out with.. but they are the biggest walking talking contradiction i've ever met. I love the irony in them emphasizing 'fuck the system' while smoking a cigarette, drinking a beer and owning there own car or van.

Everything in life can be enjoyed in balance.

Don't judge. You have no right.

Life is a constant give and take. It may take someone time to integrate their beliefs into their personal experience--just because they don't appear 'out' of the system, it does not immediately imply that they are phony.

The values [I assume] you are referring to are extremely difficult to maintain without contradiction/hypocrisy. Our society constantly bombards our psyche with contradictory beliefs which force us into a mode of thought that is difficult to step outside of. It becomes an addiction.

What's wrong with wanting to smoke tobacco? Nothing. What's wrong with smoking a cigarette? I don't need to list them. What's wrong with wanting to enjoy alcohol? Nothing. What's wrong with drinking a natty light? Again, I'll refrain from getting into that conversation for sake of simplicity.

It takes time to realize and integrate these things. Even then, you still must fight everything that our culture conditions you to desire.

edit: by society, i am referring to western consumer culture. close minded. self-concerned. greed. whatever

 

[malakaix]

What's wrong with wanting to smoke tobacco? Nothing. What's wrong with smoking a cigarette? I don't need to list them. What's wrong with wanting to enjoy alcohol? Nothing. What's wrong with drinking a natty light? Again, I'll refrain from getting into that conversation for sake of simplicity.

Im not saying anything is wrong, i enjoy alcohol and my past nicotine addiction, the issue with me is there fighting a system they support. If they feel so strongly against it then.. relieve them self's of it entirely.

Myself, i dont have a problem with the system, sure it has it's flaws, but i can accept it. To rebel against it entirely while still existing within in its pointless. Like i said.. i enjoy hanging out with these people, i find them to be alot of fun, but it just bugs me when they complain so passionately about a system they ultimately support.

This is what i mean about balance, you have to find peace within everything. Following extreme's is pointless because they disregard the other extreme entirely, it's all apart of your reality.. make peace with it all.

 

[naginnudej]

Im not saying anything is wrong, i enjoy alcohol and my past nicotine addiction, the issue with me is there fighting a system they support. If they feel so strongly against it then.. relieve them self's of it entirely.

Maybe you missed my point. It's not easy to live 'outside' the system. In fact, completely removing yourself from the system would require you to leave your life behind.

Yes, cigarettes and alcohol can be easily avoided...but that's not the point. Attacking the system is a process. First you must recognize what you dislike. Second you must make sure those things do not exist within yourself. Finally, if you so choose, you can make a difference and change people's lives. Clearly your friends are still in the process.

make peace with it all.

I can't make peace with an ideology that (in)directly promotes suffering. I can make peace with those things out of my control. I will however do all in my power to make a difference where I can. I hope you're friends do to.

 

[malakaix]

Can you accept that where there is good there will always be bad, where there is happiness there will ultimately be suffering? Such is the dualistic nature of our reality.

I'm not saying i promote suffering, just that i can accept it is and will happen. I am a very empathic person by nature, and im disturbed by witnessed acts of cruelty, violence or disrespect to other humans, but i can make peace with the fact that this is apart of my world, my reality. The more you 'fight' against an idea, the more you separate yourself from an integral part of your own existence.

If you can make peace with everything, both good and bad.. then you no longer take sides or extremes but become omnipresent, aware of all that is around you, and accepting it for what it is.

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

^ Wise words. All existence involves suffering.

 

[naginnudej]

Can you accept that where there is good there will always be bad, where there is happiness there will ultimately be suffering? Such is the dualistic nature of our reality.

I'm not saying i promote suffering, just that i can accept it is and will happen. I am a very empathic person by nature, and im disturbed by witnessed acts of cruelty, violence or disrespect to other humans, but i can make peace with the fact that this is apart of my world, my reality. The more you 'fight' against an idea, the more you separate yourself from an integral part of your own existence.

If you can make peace with everything, both good and bad.. then you no longer take sides or extremes but become omnipresent, aware of all that is around you, and accepting it for what it is.

Great post

I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, that's a fundamental belief that I hold dear to my very existence. You cannot appreciate joy without pain, happiness without sadness, etc... Recognizing this is fundamental to individual growth.

And just like you, I believe there must be a balance. But what happens when that delicate balance no longer holds true? Without hesitation, I'm willing to say that there are a disproportionate number of people suffering in our world. Where's the balance in that?

So at what point do you allow your happiness to depend on the suffering of others? Is it acceptable (or necessary) that one's conception of happiness, which for example, may create the need for increased oil output, creates civil unrest in another country?

We can experience both happiness and suffering without exploiting others. 'Happiness' today is fueled by the monster of material wealth. I 'accept' that. I'm just not going to feed into the problem. The more people that do the same, the less we will need to accept excessive suffering in the first place. Going back to your original post: your friends may not yet recognize the direct correlation between their actions and increased suffering (i.e. the runoff from the fertilizer that grew the tobacco in the cigarettes contaminated the local water supply and increased the occurence x disease in infants). They didn't 'need' those cigarettes to be happy--but they seem to think they do. When they figure that out things will change.

Acceptance does not imply action or inaction. In all honesty, I believe acceptance/letting go means whatever you want it to. Doesn't mean you can't try and make a difference.

 

[peepsqueek1]

Im not even speaking out against these hippies, I just feel like they judge me harshly on the most ridiculous basis. Then again, everyone does that to me.

 

[naginnudej]

So what? That's their prerogative and their problem. Lots of people judge one another. It's a disease of character.

Make of it what you will; it only effects you as much as you allow it. rise above sistah

 

[mandyjune]

Yeah i think you've come to that realization a lot faster than most other people. Some people don't even ever have that realization(bless their soul). Material things can bring happiness but it isn't the only source of happiness. It can only provide you happiness if it's something you are giving away to someone else to enhance their life. For instance, giving back to a school by donating school supplies. Knowing that those children have supplies for school and even clothing can bring people great happiness. it's all about what you share, not what you have. I read an article that just showed me how materialistic americans are and it's kinda sickening because it can really ruin lives.

 

[iPKNHRD]

I agree with the OP but what is the solution?
How can you successfully detach yourself from materialism when you've been raised to be completely dependent on materials. I refuse to blindly submit myself to the monetary system because I've convinced myself that eventually I needn't materialistic possessions and that financial stability will be, by no means my form of stability.
We all agree with the OP on certain levels but we must admit to being hypocrites as we type on our keyboards continuing to submit to materialism after paying off the monthly internet bill, contributing to the the monetary system where we are able to fund this materialistic necessity.

My question however, still remains, what do we do? Or is it that we do nothing at all and disgracefully submit to our own selfish needs of stimulation. Where we become the utter meaning of the worlds definition of the 'Materialistic Society.' Just because we've thoroughly thought out this concept and have tried to construct ourselves to be less materialistic, doesn't make us any better for we blindly submit to it materialism in various other aspects of our lives. This false sense of righteousness is corruptive and it creates a double standard where we short change the rest of mainstream society for our own selfish and personal gain. Until we have given up our materialistic lifestyle completely we must not even begin to judge.

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

^ One thing we can do is vote with our money. We can be aware of where we're spending each and every bit of it, and make sure as much of it as possible goes to people and groups whose presence and values we support. No commercial enterprise lasts long without willing customers, that's for sure. Really hate a business? Never. Ever. Shop there. Plus encourage as many people as possible not to shop there either.

Taxes and state-owned institutions are a lot trickier. Many state-owned enterprises are things you wouldn't want to do without OR (I suspect) purchase from a private sector provider, though. It's hard to boycott them monetarily, and voting for change in polls has fair to middling results.

You can refuse to be materialistic, in practice, by purchasing only what you actually need and actually use, and source as much as what you buy as possible from socially and environmentally responsible sources. There's a certain amount of basic basics that can only really be procured with money these days in most places by most people. No one person, in most places, can make, forage, or barter for them all, reliably for years. I see no shame in admitting this, seeking enough income to cover these items, and then paying it. Being materialistic is a desire for more and more new things, far in excess of what one needs to survive in society. It's the mistaken belief that you're always just one more new thing away from lasting happiness. It's only when it's taken to this level that it's undeniably harmful to oneself, other people in one's life, society, and the earth.

 

[Raw Evil]

Yep. If we can make as little use of the system as possible - and ensure that when we do, we use it wisely - we need not "blindly submit" to it, but rather we can use it for what it is: a tool. A tool for making our lives easier, and not a *way of life*.

 

[iPKNHRD]

Being materialistic is a desire for more and more new things, far in excess of what one needs to survive in society. It's the mistaken belief that you're always just one more new thing away from lasting happiness. It's only when it's taken to this level that it's undeniably harmful to oneself, other people in one's life, society, and the earth.

Good points.
I guess the controversy starts when we start to recognize the difference between ones interpretation of being materialistic, to another. My interpretation is a little too extreme so to speak however, apart from contributing and relying on the system as little as possible, what I implied by stating that I 'blindly submit myself to the monetary system', I spoke as if I've been conditioned to think there were no other alternative.

I believe there is an alternative and there can be sustainable life without the need for money. Taking Raw_Evil's advice and given my current circumstances in life, I will use the the system to my advantage and buy a few fundamental necessities. My plan is to recapture my bond with nature, leave the city behind in search for a higher state of mindfulness, where I can enjoy the simplicity of isolation and I needn't work mindless repetitive jobs in order to survive let alone pursue monetary controlled interests. Where you needn't any form on stimulation to be completely occupied. If this were possible, would you do it?

 

[The_Winner]

The choice is yours: the path of the Bodhisattva: selflessly helping other people realize the truth, or you can be a selfish buddha: enjoy your enlightenment while in this earthly body...

The real enlightened people are bound to help others. Pure sincere compassion and love for others arises automatically the more one starts understanding the reality of existence.

 

[malakaix]

If this were possible, would you do it?

I personally would not, but this is because i feel a balance can be maintained. I don't like extremes, because i always feel im negating another valuable aspect of life, whether that aspect is positive or negative is of course, entirely subjective.. however it's your choice alone whether to dismiss it or use it.

 

[Raw Evil]

My plan is to recapture my bond with nature, leave the city behind in search for a higher state of mindfulness, where I can enjoy the simplicity of isolation and I needn't work mindless repetitive jobs in order to survive let alone pursue monetary controlled interests. Where you needn't any form on stimulation to be completely occupied. If this were possible, would you do it?

I find that I romanticise this idea more than I entertain the notion of actually doing it. It's an ideal that at seems like the ultimate way to distance oneself from the evils of modern society, but I'm thinking that that would really just be an escape, at least for me right now.

My justification for remaining integrated in the culture and society of modern life is that I feel that I can do more good by staying and trying to change people's minds for the better. Remaining in contact with the rest of society is quite difficult if you don't have Internet access, a phone line, a postal service, or indeed any quick method of communication. So I remain here, at least for now, trying my best to make sure that I stay true to my ideals, and that whatever I do, I continue to do it for the betterment of not only my life, but those of everyone else in this world.

 

[iPKNHRD]

I find that I romanticise this idea more than I entertain the notion of actually doing it. It's an ideal that at seems like the ultimate way to distance oneself from the evils of modern society, but I'm thinking that that would really just be an escape, at least for me right now.

My justification for remaining integrated in the culture and society of modern life is that I feel that I can do more good by staying and trying to change people's minds for the better. Remaining in contact with the rest of society is quite difficult if you don't have Internet access, a phone line, a postal service, or indeed any quick method of communication. So I remain here, at least for now, trying my best to make sure that I stay true to my ideals, and that whatever I do, I continue to do it for the betterment of not only my life, but those of everyone else in this world.

Yes indeed, however the process of becoming completely independent without money and applying this concept to the practical life is quite difficult as you could imagine.
I wouldn't necessarily call it an escape because my incentives are not a result of fear and what I'm trying to do is to detach myself from leading a meaningless life where the primary goals are to gain external materialistic possessions which include necessities, and to pursue monetary controlled interests.

I believe that I can state that someone is materialistic the moment they wish to gain and furthermore actually obtaining something of which they do not need.
You can categorize clothes as a necessity, but really, to what extent?

Materialism can be scrutinized in to countless sub categories but as you become aware of just how much we clearly wish for and obtain things that we do not need, I can be almost correct to assume that everybody who has written on this thread and whoever is reading it, is in fact, materialistic.

 

[NomNomNom]

I wish that I could help them see the world in such a way where you can by pass all your problems by simply looking at the world and seeing that none of this matters...

I feel you on a lot of what you're saying but nothing is ever so easy.

As a human being i need to eat, because we came up with the concept of "property ownership" i can't just go out and start farming my own food somewhere. In order to get food i need money, in order to get money, i need a job, in order to get a job (that i'm content with, or at least not entirely ashamed of) i had to go through...let's see, 18 years of school. This is a very basic and partial rendering of what people call "The Grid".

If you're a person living in the developed world, you best believe you are on that motherfucker.

The overwhelming majority of people couldn't give a flying fuck about this kind of abstract thought because they're on a treadmill. If you go through 18 years of school and are a good little doobie, and do exactly what you're told and what you're supposed to do (Straight A's, internships, school sponsored extra-curricular activities) and nothing else, you're likely to come out as a complete and utter dolt. A square, someone who fits perfectly into the grid.

I see things changing a little with my Generation, but not a hell of a lot, i just read some shit from CareerBuilder about boning up on your interviewing skills and i shit you not, sentence is:

"Many Gen Y workers value their activities outside of work, which can make hiring managers hesitant to bring one on board."

The deck is stacked the fuck against original thought/individualism. It seems like my generation views work as what it is: A way to get money while people 10 years older than me view it as their entire life.

When your entire life is nothing but work work work to up someone else's bank, what else is there to do in your 32 or less fully free hours per week but go out and buy shit to make yourself feel better?

Expanding your knowledge base and getting different perspectives is not a benefit to you when you need to be in a cubicle farm for 50 hours per week taking care of wealthy people's company problems.