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Materialistic view of life by today's people.

MrM said:
Sorry i can't help you with that particular communication problem, except to suggest have you tried looking at it as if it doesn't matter? If you didn't care one way or another what people thought of your new understanding of the universe you would not be frustrated by the unrealised desire of communicating this understanding to other people, thus passing the problem by.

Maybe you have more in common with everyone else than you think. You do not spend your life shut off from the rest of the world any more than most other people seem to and you concern yourself with what you perceive to be your problems just the same as everyone else. The only difference is in the detail.
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I agree with MrM here, it shouldn't bother you. The best you can do is live your life through your new understanding and hope that others take notice, lead by example.

People will find there path in time, just as you did.
 
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Man all this hippie talk is getting to me. I enjoy seeing life from this perspective from time to time. One day I will indulge in psychedelics and MDMA. But I just don't think this shit is for me the more I think about it. I feel lifeless almost; unsuccessful. I can't change the fact that I'm a product of evolution and my environment. I can't change the fact that unless I consiously try to see life from this perspective I will once again get lost in the modern social life that we have evolved into; the symbolic forms of success--everything from material possessions, to popularity, to partying, to being promoted at work...that's the life I want. Because it produces emotional responses in me that I like. Perhaps I'll enjoy the occasional humbling experience that psychs could offer me though. Or perhaps when I actually experience it, and not just think I know what it's about, I'll really change my perspective. Who knows!
 
Ryan1411 said:
Man all this hippie talk is getting to me. I enjoy seeing life from this perspective from time to time. One day I will indulge in psychedelics and MDMA. But I just don't think this shit is for me the more I think about it. I feel lifeless almost; unsuccessful. I can't change the fact that I'm a product of evolution and my environment. I can't change the fact that unless I consiously try to see life from this perspective I will once again get lost in the modern social life that we have evolved into; the symbolic forms of success--everything from material possessions, to popularity, to partying, to being promoted at work...that's the life I want. Because it produces emotional responses in me that I like. Perhaps I'll enjoy the occasional humbling experience that psychs could offer me though. Or perhaps when I actually experience it, and not just think I know what it's about, I'll really change my perspective. Who knows!
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Sounds like the thought pattern you've caught yourself in is the product a life-long addiction fueled by a powerful mind that finds 'grounding' in an endless supply of misleading external stimuli and doctored emotions.

Just because the perspective that you speak of doesn't come 'naturally' for you, doesn't mean that it's not there. Do you know how long it takes to break a bad habit? And do you know how hard it is to get into a good habit? What I'm saying is that I think you're locked into a bad habit and its gonna take patience and constant reinforcement to stand above 'symbolic forms of success' and free yourself from your own mind. It won't happen overnight and it certainly won't happen if you don't want it to. You create your own reality my friend.

You also don't have to give up your job, money, etc... A new relationship with them is all that's necessary for a more fulfilling life experience IMO <3
 
naginnudej said:
Sounds like the thought pattern you've caught yourself in is the product a life-long addiction fueled by a powerful mind that finds 'grounding' in an endless supply of misleading external stimuli and doctored emotions.

Just because the perspective that you speak of doesn't come 'naturally' for you, doesn't mean that it's not there. Do you know how long it takes to break a bad habit? And do you know how hard it is to get into a good habit? What I'm saying is that I think you're locked into a bad habit and its gonna take patience and constant reinforcement to stand above 'symbolic forms of success' and free yourself from your own mind. It won't happen overnight and it certainly won't happen if you don't want it to. You create your own reality my friend.

You also don't have to give up your job, money, etc... A new relationship with them is all that's necessary for a more fulfilling life experience IMO <3
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I guess that's just where we'll have to disagree, kinda.

My life-goal is happiness. Whatever brings me the greatest happiness is what I'll live by. I'm not just gonna try and change the fact that indulging in the life that society has created brings me happiness. However, if the ideas/revelations of psychedelics/MDMA change my perspective, then so be it. :)
 
i'm a proponent of happiness as well--although I think our definitions of the word are a bit different :p

Let me just say this: in all honestly, I find happiness in those things too. I'm still attached to my material possessions on many levels but my relationship with them has grown and matured. I always try and practice mindfulness.

Who knows, you might just realize the grass is greener on the other side :)
 
What I hear:
Ryan1411 said:
If I have to choose between this world and the Matrix, I choose the Matrix.
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If you've experienced freedom from that reality, I doubt you'll ever be fully comfortable in it ever again. Maybe close, but not fully.
 
Er, I'm confused as to what your saying. Perhaps it's because I've never seen The Matrix. Care to explain?



And no hate to all of you who "see the bigger picture"; who find materialistic items worthless; who find the majority population to be slaves to society...but something bothers me about this perspective. It's like, take into consideration that we ARE products of our environment/experiences; it only makes sense that the overwhelming majority of people will conform to the modern societal structure. Yet there are those few who, through some means, or for some reason, (perhaps for a lot of you--psychedelics)...are able to see life from a largely different perspective; you're able to see the structure of society. And so you feel enlightened because you have...this new outlook on life?



Yet on the flip side, I have realized something. Without new experiences we adapt to the comfort of our day-to-day life and become unaware of the potential happiness we could experience. Maybe you all have experienced something so profound that living as a slave to society does seem inferior, regarding your level of happiness.
 
Quite honestly, I don't see anything wrong with Ryan's perspective (not that I'm in any authority to judge, it just seems that several people have a problem with his point of view).

Here is someone who wants happiness and who is not closed to being humbled. What else do you need?

After all, even the Buddha in all his greatness recommended moderation.
 
Ryan1411 said:
Er, I'm confused as to what your saying. Perhaps it's because I've never seen The Matrix. Care to explain?
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It's a line spoken by one of the characters who finds his disillusionment too much to bear, and eventually betrays the protagonist in exchange for the promise of being plugged back into the simulation that is the Matrix (with no memories of the outside world). Good movie. The sequels are of questionable value. The betrayal wasn't the point of my quoting it though, don't get me wrong. I just drew a parallel that I found interesting.

Here is someone who wants happiness and who is not closed to being humbled. What else do you need?
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Good point. I guess I jumped to an incorrect conclusion when I first read it.
 
Ryan1411 said:
Er, I'm confused as to what your saying. Perhaps it's because I've never seen The Matrix. Care to explain?



And no hate to all of you who "see the bigger picture"; who find materialistic items worthless; who find the majority population to be slaves to society...but something bothers me about this perspective. It's like, take into consideration that we ARE products of our environment/experiences; it only makes sense that the overwhelming majority of people will conform to the modern societal structure. Yet there are those few who, through some means, or for some reason, (perhaps for a lot of you--psychedelics)...are able to see life from a largely different perspective; you're able to see the structure of society. And so you feel enlightened because you have...this new outlook on life?



Yet on the flip side, I have realized something. Without new experiences we adapt to the comfort of our day-to-day life and become unaware of the potential happiness we could experience. Maybe you all have experienced something so profound that living as a slave to society does seem inferior, regarding your level of happiness.
Click to expand...

Material items are not worthless--let's not use absolutes. I see them as crutch that promotes a type of satisfaction and attachment that can be harmful to your conception of the self. And yes, we are on many levels 'products' of the social structures in which we find ourselves; but who's to say that you can't question and critique the oft accepted realities we are born into? The only reason I critically analyze my surroundings is because I want to improve them for everyone, not just myself.

For me, this conversation is merely a way to relate my subjective life experiences in order to grow as person and help others do the same. Unfortunately, when sharing information with others, there is separation between what one person says and what the other receives. A large part of knowledge is experience. I can describe to you a feeling, experience, etc... that I have been subject to, but until you actually live that feeling, that separation will always exist. That feeling of the unknown may manifest itself as doubt, hatred, excitement, or any other emotion you can think of.

Despite that side note, you don't need to 'see the Matrix' to share these sentiments. Look at the computer on your desk. Think about the mass of materials, knowledge, labor, etc... that went into making that. Be critical and ask questions. Asking questions promotes awareness--when you become more aware of how your actions effect the world around you, your perspective begins to change. Whether you like it or not, that computer your using is on that desk because of you. You put those wheels in motion; how do you know that laborers and the earth's resources were not exploited in making that product? You actions have consequences; materialism especially so.

Like Jamsyhd said: moderation is key. Find a place where you feel comfortable, but not so comfortable as to not move forward. I don't however think anyone here who fully subscribes to this 'perspective' would have the desire to be judgmental or otherwise--that would be a bit hypocritical and ironic, no?

<3
 
naginnudej said:
Material items are not worthless--let's not use absolutes. I see them as crutch that promotes a type of satisfaction and attachment that can be harmful to your conception of the self.
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Yeah I shouldn't have said worthless; I meant something more along the lines of what you said here. ^^

And yes, we are on many levels 'products' of the social structures in which we find ourselves; but who's to say that you can't question and critique the oft accepted realities we are born into? The only reason I critically analyze my surroundings is because I want to improve them for everyone, not just myself.
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I agree. The flipside of just living in a society and not analyzing or questioning its structure is being unaware of how the conditioning has affected you; it could prevent you from experiencing a greater happiness, or it could be harmful or detrimental to your well-being. I think of the novel 1984 here.
 
Why do humans have the most annoying tendency to claim that their personal view is "the one true path?"

How arrogant, idiotic, naive and pompous of you.

If you'd simply posited that your view is a good one, I could accept that and be happy knowing that you're happy with your own view, and I am happy with mine . . .so why must you act as though your perspective is superior?
Narcissism at it's finest, yet again.


I guarantee that people will dislike this post if they agreed with the OP, and yet what have I criticized about his/her post that doesn't deserve review? If I make the lofty claim that I am "enlightened," and that maybe the other people who live in such a foolish paradigm will be in time, too, I'm basically insulting everyone but myself and my followers. People resent condescension.
 
Taryth said:
Why do humans have the most annoying tendency to claim that their personal view is "the one true path?"

How arrogant, idiotic, naive and pompous of you.
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I just reread the original post, and at no point does the author claim his way is the only way. He's happened across a realization that he happens to find very wise, and he would like to share that wisdom with whomever is receptive to it. What's wrong with that?

If you'd simply posited that your view is a good one, I could accept that and be happy knowing that you're happy with your own view, and I am happy with mine . . .so why must you act as though your perspective is superior?
Narcissism at it's finest, yet again.


I guarantee that people will dislike this post if they agreed with the OP, and yet what have I criticized about his/her post that doesn't deserve review? If I make the lofty claim that I am "enlightened," and that maybe the other people who live in such a foolish paradigm will be in time, too, I'm basically insulting everyone but myself and my followers. People resent condescension.
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I don't dislike this post because I agree with the OP. (I actually think his ideas are in need of some refinement.) I dislike it because you're jumping to conclusions and really misinterpreting the tone and intention. Never did he write 'I am enlightened'. Again, what's so inherently wrong with someone saying, 'I've discovered a wonderful new perspective on life. Care to hear it?'

If he was unkind to you for being unreceptive or politely critical, then yeah, that's his bad, and I'd have to doubt how wise or enlightened he REALLY is. But I never picked up even a hint of that.
 
But since I have gained this knowledge, I have been looking out on my fellow beings. Seeing how attached they are to this world and their problems. I wish that I could help them see the world in such a way where you can by pass all your problems by simply looking at the world and seeing that none of this matters, and that the true object of life is being able to build your spiritual energy and see the world in a great new way.

Those bold snippets. That's what I was referring to. His post takes the air of someone who believes him/herself to be above other people, even going to be the point of saying they wish they could help other people, us lowly drudges who haven't realized how reality REALLY is (from the OP's perspective, anyway.)

I mean, your perspective on this matter of what we're doing here and how we should do it is as valid as mine, and that's what I was trying to say. Instead I only managed a bunch of snarling word-vomit. It simply bothers me when people assume that they're somehow "enlightened," or better than other people. That's just how I took the OP's post.


I'm sorry for being an [expletive deleted] yesterday. While I disagree with your post entirely, I shouldn't have tried to insult you like that.
 
Would you condemn materialism when the material at issue is food or medicine or shelter -- the basic needs of life?

Sometimes, spiritual snobbery feels like a luxury of the wealthy. When your kids are starving, you damn well get materialistic in a hurry.

~psychoblast~
 
through meeting more and more hippies Ive been disapointed and experianced disillusionment. I thought I was supposed to be the one attached to materialistic pursuits and sensory pleasures and etc. Turns out Im one of the few people who even seek true enlightenment. Most people seem to do it for the popularity or just the notion of it as part of an anti-mainstream yet mainstream scene. Especially in recent guys Ive met, they seem to want the appeal of a psuedo-intellectual deep thinker to impress girls. It feels fake. I feel like catcher in the rye. Haha.
 
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