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Mass Shootings and Gun Debate 2019ish

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Captain.Heroin said:
HEY GUYS did you know there's no solution to gun violence and the reasoning is along the lines of why we have observed zero alien species. Intelligent life is inherently self-destructive to itself, and to others.



SPACE FORCE: MANIFEST DESTINY INDEFINITE
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There's a big difference between power and intelligence. There are an insane amount of INTELLIGENT animals on this earth and none of them are doing the destruction we are. The difference is power, not intelligence.
 
In 1987, the U.S. banned metal-tipped shooting darts because 1 child died. Meanwhile guns are the third leading cause of death in U.S. children ages 1-17.
 
w01fg4ng said:
There's a big difference between power and intelligence. There are an insane amount of INTELLIGENT animals on this earth and none of them are doing the destruction we are. The difference is power, not intelligence.
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I disagree other species of mammals and non-mammals exhibit inner-species violence to compete for territory, resources, food, reproduction rights. Even the Tasmanian Devils are seemingly accidentally causing their own extinction through playful/power-assertion scratches/bites on each other which is transmitting contagious tumors. Coral reef will compete for ideal environmental conditions in the sea. Other species have been seen committing suicide. There's a plethora of species where male individuals fight, often rather bloodily, for reproduction rights, sometimes leading to death. Felines will kill non-lineage cubs to ensure the continuation of their genes.

Our genes do not exist FOR us. We exist FOR our genes. The second you understand that more will make sense. Or you'll disagree with me but at least my 50 shades of grey on the matter I guess? Either way you're pretty smart and I'll respect whatever you think of this all if you give it a good read.

Violence wasn't created by human beings. IF we did, and we witness violence in other species, does this mean we taught other species to destroy themselves for territory, resources, reproductive rights? Did we teach dolphins or whales to (apparently/seemingly) commit suicide? I don't think so.

Such is the nature of intelligent life. This doesn't surprise me as an atheist who despises most atheist states (China, Russia, DPRK) and prefers a Christian/open-belief system even though there is no god (primarily for individual rights but also because there has never been a positive track record on an atheist state: ever).

Optimal morality is achieved through ignorance. A beautiful ignorance where we turn away from our violence and knowledge and thrill seeking brains. I am a lesser person for not believing, I am sure, and I can admit that primarily as knowledge functions to exact "ends" not so much moral ends but practical, necessary, or ideal ends. Knowledge doesn't exist to create and fine-tune morality.
 
Captain.Heroin said:
I disagree other species of mammals and non-mammals exhibit inner-species violence to compete for territory, resources, food, reproduction rights. Even the Tasmanian Devils are seemingly accidentally causing their own extinction through playful/power-assertion scratches/bites on each other which is transmitting contagious tumors. Coral reef will compete for ideal environmental conditions in the sea. Other species have been seen committing suicide. There's a plethora of species where male individuals fight, often rather bloodily, for reproduction rights, sometimes leading to death. Felines will kill non-lineage cubs to ensure the continuation of their genes.

Our genes do not exist FOR us. We exist FOR our genes. The second you understand that more will make sense. Or you'll disagree with me but at least my 50 shades of grey on the matter I guess? Either way you're pretty smart and I'll respect whatever you think of this all if you give it a good read.

Violence wasn't created by human beings. IF we did, and we witness violence in other species, does this mean we taught other species to destroy themselves for territory, resources, reproductive rights? Did we teach dolphins or whales to (apparently/seemingly) commit suicide? I don't think so.

Such is the nature of intelligent life. This doesn't surprise me as an atheist who despises most atheist states (China, Russia, DPRK) and prefers a Christian/open-belief system even though there is no god (primarily for individual rights but also because there has never been a positive track record on an atheist state: ever).

Optimal morality is achieved through ignorance. A beautiful ignorance where we turn away from our violence and knowledge and thrill seeking brains. I am a lesser person for not believing, I am sure, and I can admit that primarily as knowledge functions to exact "ends" not so much moral ends but practical, necessary, or ideal ends. Knowledge doesn't exist to create and fine-tune morality.
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Again, none of them are doing the damage to the earth that we are, and that is simply because we have the most power, not intelligence.

It's called privilege, and we as humans are abusing the fuck out of it.
 
Ecological destruction, while very important, isn't so much related to guns/assault rifles. The subject of intelligent life being prone to violence is, however, relevant which is why I brought it up.

Not trying to shut you down; you have a great point, but apples and oranges.
 
It's only an anti-Trump narrative because he's the key figure standing in the way of racial equality and progress. At least, in the minds and mouths of the speakers who are speaking out against his rhetoric. Again, rhetoric. So don't chew my nuts off.

I wish he would try to build bridges and not burn them between the races IMO. I AM glad and I DO think he was honest in calling that out as WRONG - of course that's not like an ORIGINAL IDEA, anyone with half a soul would realize how wrong this is, but I will give him credit: he did say it was wrong (or whatever the Trump Words *I know all the words* words were)
 
Obviously not, but that doesn't mean he's a good influence. Our problems started decades before Trump. Trump is just a symptom.
 
spare ribs said:
If only Trump wasnt President,America would be a paradise.Free from racism,income inequality and mass shootings.:rolleyes:
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I didn't say that. Wealth inequality isn't a major issue to me. I've previously said mass shootings have no solution (he's inflaming race relations not helping them; I did NOT say he encouraged the shootings, that's just a bit unsubstantiated IMO) unlike Duterte who's like "you think they're a drug dealer? Just kill them. I did it as a Mayor and you should too!" Real life sentiment by a brutal dictator = totally disgusting. Trump didn't do that, you're right.
 
spare ribs said:
Hes not mentioned at all?
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I know it’s a long article and it isn’t about Trump, so I used the find feature. His name is mentioned four times, three of which referred to other stories.

You’re kind of touchy, so I’ll just suggest that maybe you should read articles before dismissing or criticizing them. It’s the second time you’ve done that to stories I’ve posted.

Maybe you should post some stories instead?

Also, the mention of the name of the president isn’t an indication that he is the subject of the article.

If you want to know more, please refer to the article.
 
spare ribs said:
Society is better than the 80s,less racism,less inequality,less of most things bad.
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Less racism and bigotry, agreed, and that's a really good thing (though it has nothing to do with Trump). But the middle class is much more difficult to attain on average now. Your dollar gets you nowhere near as much as it used to. Cost of living has increased a lot and minimum wage/pay increases have not nearly kept up. Health care costs have absolutely skyrocketed as have college costs. If you went to college in the 80s you got out of it without crippling debt, and you could get a job and afford to buy a house. Media monopoly protections were not being dismantled. In the 80s, people with different political perspectives could have a conversation without vitriol. Government actually functioned without locking up because everything but the most trivial of matters has been made hyperpartisan. We were still the world leaders in public education and we made great strides in environmental protections. People felt positive about our direction.

Not to say things were perfect or that we weren't still doing fucked up things on the world stage... but the regression is very real. You're right though, civil rights have progressed a lot since then, in terms of rights for all. Which is something that people need to remember sometimes on the left. Obviously we have more to go and we need to not be complacent, but we should remember how far we've come in a short time.
 
TheLoveBandit said:
The problem isn't the gun, it's the mentality of the individual that they have reached a point of deciding to kill others.
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This is true. However, the mentality of people is such that they cannot be trusted with guns.

Also, I don't get the whole "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument. Although this is true, surely if people didn't have guns, then people couldn't kill people with guns?

It's a bit like saying "cars don't kill people, car drivers kill people". But if there were no cars, there would be no car accidents.

In fact, would I be correct in saying that cars are more strictly controlled in the US than guns are? You have to obtain a license, then take a course of lessons and finally pass a driving test. Then you have to take out insurance and get regular servicing and maintenance for the life of the vehicle. Does any of this apply to guns?

I'm not advocating banning guns, but compulsory licences subject to strict controls, a training course, competence testing and subsequent regular checks, surely wouldn't do any harm?

Another argument that doesn't stand up is "if there were no guns, people would still kill people. Anything can be used as a weapon." While this is also true, everything that can be used as a weapon that isn't a weapon, has a legitimate non-lethal use. The fact that people can be killed by many other means does not justify owning a device whose sole purpose is to kill. If this were the case, then this justification could be extrapolated to include 'the right to bear bombs.'


However, us Euros know the real reason why you guys are obsessed with guns...



...It's because most of you had half your dicks chopped off when you were kids! ?
 
spare ribs said:
Never said it was Trump.College debt is a yuge problem, but that is due to Colleges offering garbage degrees with no hope of meaningful employment afterwards.Blaming all societies ills on Trump is ridiculous.He could be out of office soon and America wont magically be healed because a Democrat holds office.
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Agreed, and although I also agree that some people do seem to blame everything that's wrong on Trump, I don't... but I still think he's a part of the problem, rather than the solution, and a negative influence on things.
 
Captain.Heroin said:
Ecological destruction, while very important, isn't so much related to guns/assault rifles. The subject of intelligent life being prone to violence is, however, relevant which is why I brought it up.

Not trying to shut you down; you have a great point, but apples and oranges.
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Ecological destruction is extremely violent.

We will most likely see just how violent it gets in our lifetime.
 
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