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Mass Shootings and Gun Debate 2018 Thread

I didn't say none exist. I said that of the claimed evil fema camps conspiracy theorists to on about, many aren't actually run by fema at all. The property exists but it is only claimed to be fema, it isn't really. Some are fema but weren't always. In general the conspiracy theory video just warp the context or outright make shit up because they believe their bullshit. Confirmation bias, etc.

EDIT: Actually, nevermind, they don't exist, none of them. Totally made up. Guess you'll be going for a drive now, cya in 6-10 hours.

Invegauser I'm actually from the US, no Australian would mistake me for an Australian with my accent. I just didn't feel like correcting undiminished. It was kinda funny hearing him rant about "his country",and all that.
 
Where exactly are you talking about in Illinois that these supposed camps are? I'm in st louis, the fema camp I went to was in Louisiana after Katrina.
 
Interesting your comment about reality being as interesting as conspiracies. I greatly agree. The reality of the world and how it works really is pretty off the wall crazy and hilarious. It's nothing like what conspiracy theorists think, but it's still pretty insane. Just in a very different way.

In some ways I often wish the conspiracy theorists were right. I'm some ways I'd prefer the world were like they imagine. Apart from being much more interesting, at least then the world is run by intelligent people. In some ways that's better than the reality where it's run by inept morons who are as likely to destroy the world by accident and incompetence as they are anything intentional.
 
JessFR said:
Can we just ignore him? I'm at that point now.

Seriously, FEMA camps again? I'm so sick of hearing this shit. You just know if FEMA did nothing they'll be blamed in the next emergency, then when they do prepare for emergencies people get upset about that. It's retarded.

So, I live in Australia, I'm not Australian but I live here. I've seen LOTS of heavily armed criminals. Now, fairs fair, that's no doubt an unusual experience most Australians won't relate too. It's because of the kind of social circles I've been around related to my extremely high heroin addition. But I've seen plenty of guns around. Which is one of many reasons I find it hard to take gun control seriously. I know people who've been shot by criminals. Now admitidly they're all themselves criminals but the point is, the guns are there. People just don't see them. Most people only interact with it directly if they're mugged and most muggers aren't gonna take a gun because they don't need one, and it could get a much worse penalty if caught.

This can't be that surprising though, if the heroins here the surely the guys with guns are here to guard it.
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@invegauser just look at it.
 
^ do you not see the irony in calling everyone a "statist", then wanting to pin down exactly which country they are from?
:D

Invegauser: think that second one is meant to be "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you" ;)
 
Some people travel and live in countries that they don't identify as their country of origin...
Is that really a strange idea?

invegauser said:
but i digress. the government is run by human beings. regular people with higher aspirations. just like us they have bad days and bad ways. but if they screw up we all pay for it. if you or i do then we basically only harm ourselves. (hope i'm not sobering anyone up too much with this. kinda jealous i can't use right now)
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Indeed.
Reminds me of one of my favourite Crass lyrics; "Systems aren't made of bricks, they're mostly made of people"

 
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i think you've been given more than a fair chance by quite a few of us to show some maturity and engage in calm discussion, but it seems like a waste of time trying to have a discussion with you.

that's a shame, but it's really your loss.
 
As an Australian, the gun debate and the shooting sprees on America dont affect me. Therefore my thoughts are null and void.

Having said that, guns are just stupid anyway as whats the point if you cant kill people with them and its too tempting for a person who is either crazy or pushed beyond their limit for some reason to grab one and kill people to somehow make a point.

If they were easily available here Im sure Id love to kill people but I cant as its murder so why bother.

They are stupid. Having a need to have one is insane.

What about tasers or pepper spray. Tranquiliser darts. Anything. Just not guns.
 
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zephyr said:
As an Australian, the gun drbate and the shooting sprees on America dont affect me. Therefore my thoughts are null and void.

Having said that, guns are just stupid anyway as whats the point if you cant kill people with them and its too trmpting for a person who is either crazy or pushed beyond their limit for some reason to grab one and kill people to somehow make a point.

If they were easily available here Im sure Id love to kill people but I cant as its murder so why bother.

They are stupid. Having a need to have one is insane.

What about tasers or pepper spray. Tranquiliser darts. Anything. Just not guns.
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If you'd happily kill someone we're it not illegal then somethings seriously fucked up.

Tranq darts are a movie invention. I mean they exist, but in real life they're more likely to either not work, or kill you as anything else. There's a reason they're never used on humans in reality.

Tasers and pepper spray also have their problems, but I'd say they have their value too. Something that I think is seriously fucked up is that both of them are illegal in Australia too. I can understand banning guns. Really I can. I don't agree, but I get it. I don't get banning Tasers and pepper spray, that's going too far. That's not understandable to me. That's bullshit.

EDIT: Oh and speaking of bullshit and Australian nanny state insanity, I just saw in the news that under new laws you can be fined $550 for smoking an ecig...with no nicotine in it, in public areas.

Has to be no nicotine because the nicotine ones are already illegal. I know many Australians here already know that last part, but for the international audience I wanted to mention it.
 
i think tasers and pepper spray should be banned from policing, because they're badly misused, especially by police here in melbourne. i've narrowly missed a face full of CS spray on several occasions. it's a chemical weapon, and when it was introduced, it was meant to be used in life-or-death situations, when officers were under threat.
that's not how it used used now though.
both tasers and CS spray can kill people, and the reason both are banned here is (i believe) to be consistent about enforcing a general legal principle about the criminality of using any kind of weapon on another person.
self-defence is pretty precise in how it is legally defined here - you cannot claim self-defence if the force you use to defend yourself is excessive.

not saying i have a strong opinion either way, or that i endorse these ideas - that's just my understanding of it.
 
spacejunk said:
i think tasers and pepper spray should be banned from policing, because they're badly misused, especially by police here in melbourne. i've narrowly missed a face full of CS spray on several occasions. it's a chemical weapon, and when it was introduced, it was meant to be used in life-or-death situations, when officers were under threat. both tasers and pepper spray can kill people.
that's not how it used used now though.
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I think you mean OC spray. I could be wrong, but I've never heard of hand held CS spray. CS is tear gas, very different. I would somewhat agree that CS is a chemical weapon, and I think it should only be used in very select riot control situations, never on lone resisting individuals. OC spray is different, it's very unpleasant, and it can contribute to death in rare cases, but it's not a chemical weapon. It's capsaicin and is what people mean when they say pepper spray.

I am sympathetic to your view, but I can't agree. Tasers have saved many lives by providing an alternative to shooting someone. I know they get misused, I agree. I just think there's a better way than getting rid of them entirely.

Tasers almost never kill by themselves, misuse does result in death sometimes which requires better training, and in very rare cases it can cause heart problems in susceptible people, but in the end its not nearly enough to justify removing them. Like I said, I know there are abuses, it's bad I agree. I largely agree with you about the problem just not the solution.
 
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JessFR said:
I think you mean OC spray. I could be wrong, but I've never heard of hand held CS spray. CS is tear gas, very different. I would somewhat agree that CS is a chemical weapon, and I think it should only be used in very select riot control situations, never on lone resisting individuals. OC spray is different, it's very unpleasant, and it can contribute to death in rare cases, but it's not a chemical weapon. It's capsaicin and is what people mean when they say pepper spray.
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You're right, i mean OC spray. I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of weapons, but having seen how the human body reacts to a face full of the spray (the stuff victoria police seem to use is an orange foam). i dont know if you've seen it first hand, but it's scary. It is recommended that people should discard any clothing that is contaminated with the stuff, and god help you if it gets in your eyes or respiratory system.

Yes, it's better than the cops shooting someone, but the way cops here use it (often indiscriminately spraying into groups of peaceful protesters. no cop in australia has every fired a gun into a group of non-violent groups of people who pose no physical threat).
I've seen people taken to hospital after copping a dose of pepper spray, and it can affect the body's temperature regulation.
Just because it's derived from something natural, doesn't mean it's not a chemical weapon.
 
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