Marijuana Is The Most Insidious Drug There Is

[safety]

Well, seeing how you've been arguing the exact opposite of what that graph says for the past 15 posts, it's fair to assume that you read the graph wrong and are trying to use it to justify your previous argument.

If you're changing your stance, you should note that to avoid confusion.

I'll ask again:

What would you say my point is?

 

[Chainer]

I'm getting the feeling we are being trolled. With all I wrote, all you respond is "try stopping, period." Where did I say this was a goal or something I even cared about trying? I'm by no means an alcoholic, but that doesn't mean I won't have a drink at a frat on Thursdays. I'm by no means addicted to weed, but that doesn't mean I won't toke up at night after my work is done. Sometimes I don't get to for days, weeks, etc because of work, it sucks, but it isn't a problem.

I'm not sure why you are so aggressive. I'll let you have your shining moment, you can run this thread how you would like, I've already expressed my opinions, I see no reason to wait around this thread for your next rude or snide remark.


I'll leave with this quote that was posted on the second page.

pot?
yes, stopping smoking weed could be 'hard' for some people but in the big scheme of things, compared to most things you can get addicted to, it's not that big a deal.

if you feel 'addicted' to weed, get down on your knees and thank your lucky stars that's the worst thing you have to deal with.

 

[flacky]

I'm not trolling here. I smoke weed. I just think it's completely wreckless to have people on a harm reduction board say that weed is as addictive as coffee.

Misrepresenting the facts on a website which is meant to have unbiased information on drug safety is dangerous.

We'd all like to tell ourselves that weed is the perfect drug, but it's not.

I get aggressive because I'm citing actual facts and the rebuttal I'm getting is "but I have friends that drink a lot of coffee."

 

[Chainer]

Okay, you got me, I'll respond one more time and then I'm done, because I do feel like I am feeding a troll. I'm not sure what response you are looking for in the cannabis discussion board...

We'd all like to tell ourselves that weed is the perfect drug, but it's not.

Nobody is saying anything of the sort. Contrary, I've said otherwise. Very specifically, and you didn't care to address it.

I get aggressive because I'm citing actual facts and the rebuttal I'm getting is "but I have friends that drink a lot of coffee."

You've used the same argument:

I have friends who can't get through their day without smoking up multiple times.

My rebuttal (along with others) was that, as a FACT, caffeine has the same withdrawals.

We're on a harm reduction board.

That's cool and all, but are you going to go around policing"How fuked r u lol wat strain u smoke?" threads? How are those reducing harm? I digress because that is away from the point we are both trying to make...

We can't say that heroin has only a negligible addiction, because it doesn't in most cases. Nor does weed.

You got upset because I compared weed to coffee. Now you are comparing weed to heroine? You're saying you only cite facts... How do you know that weed does not have negligible effects in most cases? I would say it certainly does. I would say the *have smoked* population outweighs the *smoke daily* population. There are a lot of ex-smokers from the 70s! Most are responsible parents now, who do not smoke at all.

Sorry, but expression of cannabinoid receptors in the body says otherwise. The science doesn't lie.

To what degree?
I'm no scientist (I'm assuming you are not either), but I've also read plenty of articles about how weed is not physically addictive or how it may be. In any case, the MAJORITY of the "addiction" is OFTEN compared to caffeine. Caffeine certainly holds potential for physical addiction.

Try stopping period. Also, see above.

Do you expect occasional drinkers to set a goal to stop drinking, period? No, because it isn't a problem to have a drink every so often (unless you are a priest ) Another thing to note about this drug, specifically, is you CANNOT OVERDOSE.



If you can take a step back and be a little less aggressive (calling me moronic, for what appears no reason?), I'd be happy to continue a friendly, adult debate. I just don't see that happening though, with the way you have been behaving.

EDIT: I mean, look at the thread title for fucks sake. This is oozing with troll. PLUR ;D

 

[Student]

what are you talking about man? quit trolling touting opinions and anecdotal evidence as science.

yes cannabis is slightly physically addicting. Caffeine has been shown to be more so, not to mention more physically harmful. Why dont you do a bit more research there buddy? Its not like empirical evidence for addiction potential can really be found anyway.

your entire case is simply that cannabis effects you physically as far as i can see. you dont have any sources as to what degree and seem to be arguing that caffeine and physical exercise does not effect one physically, this is false and easy to learn about. You really have no argument, no one is disputing that cannabis has physical effects, and you have nothing to say besides this and a baseless opinion/claim that cannabis is more addicting than caffeine.

you have cited no facts, so idk wtf you think you posted, but i think your mistaken.

so if were going of anecdotal evidence:

i have had personal experience with addiction to both caffeine and cannabis, and i can say that caffeine w/d are much more prondounced and troublesome, particularly the feelings of never being completely awake and severe headaches. i was a very heavy smoker and consumed caffiene moderatly during the periods of addiction btw.

also i still smoke weed nightly, and i dont wake up jonesing or experiencing symptoms of w/d

the post quoted above yours sums it up perfectly, read it and do some research then post.

 

[Welsh Witch]

Oh, I can put down weed for years at a time. But please, please PLEASE don't take my caffine away from me!

 

[flacky]

Chainer, let's be clear. I never compared weed to heroin. I said that because SOME people don't have problems with addiction to heroin doesn't mean that heroin isn't an addictive drug. Just in the same way, just because SOME people don't have problems with addiction to weed, that doesn't mean that weed isn't an addictive drug.

My anecdotal evidence was cited as a response to other anecdotal evidence. Lets look at my previous track record. People here claimed that weed has NO physical addiction. I cited scientific FACT to the contrary. In comparison, other people cited "playing basketball causes physical changes" as evidence against what can arguably be any drug.

Not "policing" strain discussions is far different from condemning people for greatly understating the risks involved with a drug and you know it.

Search "expression of CB2 receptors" and you will see that they are distributed pretty well in the immune system.

The difference between the occasional drinker drinking every weekend example and the pot smoker example is the element of repetition. Occasional drinkers drink on weekends. In effect, they stop for 5 days every week. This in no way compares to a daily weed smoker taking one 7 day break in a year.

Come on, this is all common sense.

quit trolling touting opinions and anecdotal as science. [...] you have cited no facts, so idk wtf you think you posted, but i think your mistaken.

I have cited such scientific evidence as the fact that CB2 receptors are expressed solely in the body (in the immune system) and you can even refer to the graph above which was compiled as the result of a scientific study. I have done the research and I know a very decent amount about pharmacology. It is you that clearly needs to do some research.

I'm unsubscribing from this thread. This is like arguing with children.

 

[Chainer]

I shouldn't be surpised you didn't address 90% of the other arguements presented to you... I guess I'm not sure exactly what point you are trying to make at this point.

And no offense to saftey, but that graph was just that, a graph. I saw no citation to any reliable source. I could make a graph that says elephants are generally smaller then lions, that doesn't really mean anything, so I don't think you can use that against us.

And the heroine part -- I think you have got some basic information wrong. I'm not going to simply come out and tell you this time, because you'd probably ignore it like the rest of the shit I've typed.

BTW: Name calling is the work of children.

 

[gezgin]

yes cannabis is slightly physically addicting.

No, it's not. Cannabinoids really are not physically addictive. It is hard to differentiate between mental and physical dependency when you haven't experienced the latter.

There are allegedly no rehabilitation centres for Cannabis, despite being possibly the most widely consumed substance carrying drug. If this is true, it says it all.

I find that I can only give up weed for weeks at a time, but that's not because it's addictive, but because Cannabis alongside my life is perfect. I think people need to stop analysing things so clinically - drugs are a part of our human biochemistry. Drugs shouldn't be something you either take or don't. One can live a very fulfilling life by partaking on a regular basis.

It saddens me sometimes when I hear of people who are very arrogant and ignorant, who dismiss 'drugs' as being something completely irrelevant to our existence. It's an entire part of life on this planet that they're missing out on! Only have the past hundred or so years put this ridiculous mentality in people. I believe consuming certain substances is as important as eating and drinking properly.

 

[Student]

you can believe what you want but cannabis does have symptoms of w/d after heavy use. Its the nature of its pharmacology which is based of empirical data, not your personal feelings. However the w/d is pretty weak, mostly lack of appetite and having a bit more trouble getting to sleep ime.

i agree with what you say for the mostpart, except that drugs are not part of our biochemistry, otherwise we wouldnt have to introuduce them into our biochemistry they would already be there, but alas last time i checked i had to drop a couple bucks on a bag and inhale it through a bong/joint/vape/etc. to get some THC/cannabinoids doin their thing.


also what makes you believe consuming substances is as important as eating or drinking? Iv suggested intoxication be a drive comparable to biological functions, but i think your kind of missing the point. First of all this is your beliefe with no support to it offered. Second people do not die from never smoking a joint or blowin some H or something. Third not everyone reacts well to drugs/its not safe for everyone due to medical conditions/predisposition to mental illness etc.

for the record i do think psychoactive compounds and intoxication are a very important tool and experience for man and all that stuff

 

[cocacrazy]

OK I don't if this has been stated already but maybe just maybe people don't stop smoking weed because it's FUCKING AWESOME

Seriously though, if people don't truly want to quit then they won't. And I emphasize the word truly because fleeting moments of despair may lead to a temporary break but in the long run won't hold up. For me I have this reaction to alcohol every now and then after an embarrassing night but I still drink cause 9 times out of 10 I enjoy it. But with coke I lost all enjoyment in it so I quit over a year and a half ago and don't see myself doing it again.

I like to think that this can be applied to most things in the world and not limited to just drugs.

 

[double ewe]

Physical activity, no.

Coffee, yes.

But it is completely unreasonable to argue that either even come close to rivaling the addictive potential of weed.

I am addicted to caffeine, running and marijuana. I have "used" all three daily for about 8 years now (caffeine and running for 14), and have ceased all of them at some point or another during that period.

I would honestly say that, for me, the severity of the three is nearly identical. Quitting running and quitting weed both cause irritability, restlessness, insomnia, anhedonia and loss of appetite. The first day without caffeine, I am borderline dysfunctional (splitting headaches, loss of motivation and focus). The "withdrawal" effects of all three tend to peak within the first few days, and are largely unnoticeable within a week (although if I don't exercise for much longer than that, I do begin to experience symptoms of depression that intensify the longer i go without). So, in terms of short-term withdrawal, caffeine is the most addictive. In terms of tangible impact on my mental health, I am the most addicted to physical activity. And in terms of "fun shit that i like to do," weed is my drug of choice.

My point is, while there are physical sides to all three, the main mechanism of addiction is psychological. This means that, depending on a million different individual factors, Your Mileage May Vary in terms of personal addiction potential. And, likewise, it is the height of ignorance to claim that you can know the severity and effects of a psychological addiction on someone else's psychology.

 

[maloxx]

^because this is cannon?

Just want to point out that I have some serious doubts about the validity of this graph, mainly because it is the PERCEIVED harm and physical addiction, there are plenty of scientists out there with misconceptions about drugs, even those who have worked with them for long periods (or maybe even because of this), there is no substitute for actual research

 

[Lady Codone]

Hmmm...I see what you're getting at OP, but I have to respectfully disagree.

While a LOT of potheads like to claim that it's "not addictive, has never caused any deaths, is natural, God gave it to us, blah blah blah", there's definitely an addictive element to it, at least psychologically. For SOME people. And for SOME people, it makes their inclination to sit on their asses all day even worse. And for SOME people, it causes paranoia, drains their bank accounts, and causes all kinds of problems.

But as far as it being "the most insidious drug of all" I can't back you on that. To me, insidious means something is extremely harmful but creeps up on you so slowly that you don't even notice it's hurting you, then BLAM! Heroin hurts people who OD, get physically addicted, or get a tainted batch that kills them. Meth hurts people by putting strain on the cardiovascular system, causing neuro damage and physical deterioration. These are qualities inherent in the drugs, and no matter who takes them, they carry the same risks.

Weed hurts people...how? It CAN cause habituation, but it doesn't have to. It MAY lead to bronchial problems, but for people with asthma, it can actually HELP the airways by clearing them out via vasodilation. It's POSSIBLE for it to lead to laziness/amotivation, but for some it has the opposite effect. And it's true that no one dies from weed. See my point? With weed, it depends more on the individual than the qualities of the drug itself, whereas with other drugs, the risk comes from the drug.

So maybe it's more accurate to say, "an inability to exert self-control with weed is the most insidious character trait of all."

 

[drscience]

my aunt smokes once a year on new years. these are a bunch of old ladies who crochet and shit. weed is NOT addictive the way you think it is. its one of those things that take WILLPOWER. and maturity. and not wanting to be stoned all the fucking time.

So maybe it's more accurate to say, "an inability to exert self-control with weed is the most insidious character trait of all."

could not have said it better.

 

[Average Whiteboy]

with other drugs (heroin, cocaine, meth, etc.) there are immediate health risks, physical deterioration, and possible death by way of overdose or other complications, that will make the user want to stop. With weed, there are none of these concerns. There is no real reason to ever quit weed. To take breaks, sure, but to quit for life? Why? unless you're being randomly drug-tested there's no reason to. And thats how it gets you. I'm not bashing weed, I LOVE IT, but after a 2-month break of seriously trying to quit i'm back smoking it everyday, and i notice my quality of life has drastically improved.

No, you just lack will power, plain and simple.

 

[gezgin]

you can believe what you want but cannabis does have symptoms of w/d after heavy use. Its the nature of its pharmacology which is based of empirical data, not your personal feelings. However the w/d is pretty weak, mostly lack of appetite and having a bit more trouble getting to sleep ime.

Yes, it does have mild withdrawals, but that does not mean cannabis is physically addictive. Are you under the impression that mental addictions do not cause wds? Tell me, as a student, what are you studying? I hope not chemistry or biology

i agree with what you say for the mostpart, except that drugs are not part of our biochemistry, otherwise we wouldnt have to introuduce them into our biochemistry they would already be there, but alas last time i checked i had to drop a couple bucks on a bag and inhale it through a bong/joint/vape/etc. to get some THC/cannabinoids doin their thing.

Dude... we have dopamine, serotonin, adrenaline, insulin and many, many thousands more drugs in our bodies. Are these not drugs? You disagree that our biochemistry is dependent on "drugs"? I wasn't talking about THC being native, I was merely stating that seeing as our bodily functions rely on chemical reactions, to deprive them of some external substances completely is naive and illogical, for some are beneficial; such as THC which in some studies was found to cause early cell death preventing cells from reaching the stage where cancerous mutation/duplication can begin.

also what makes you believe consuming substances is as important as eating or drinking? Iv suggested intoxication be a drive comparable to biological functions, but i think your kind of missing the point. First of all this is your beliefe with no support to it offered. Second people do not die from never smoking a joint or blowin some H or something. Third not everyone reacts well to drugs/its not safe for everyone due to medical conditions/predisposition to mental illness etc.

for the record i do think psychoactive compounds and intoxication are a very important tool and experience for man and all that stuff

I'm fully aware it's my belief, I did not state otherwise. I think exploring substances is as important to human nature because if you look throughout history since the beginning of our evolution, we have taken advantage of thousands of mind altering substances found in nature, from the ancient South Americans using Salvia to Jesus and Moses smoking Mary Jane. Experimentation is one of the most imperative parts of who we are and our very genetic make up. Without it, we would still be naked nomads. I'm not missing the point, you are. You completely misunderstood what I wrote. I don't even understand your second and third point. Every process in our body, apart from maybe reflexes (or maybe not? If I remember correctly the synapses first initiate chemical reactions before the electrical signal is created?), arises through a chemical reaction which, in some way, alters a bodily function. Last time I checked that was the definition of a 'drug'.

 

[Student]

w/d having to do with lack of appetite, insomnia etc. are symptoms of physical addiction. if you experience lack of appitite when ceasing cannabis use does this not mean that your body had previously relied on cannabinoids to regulate appetite? cannabinoids have a hand in appetite regulation endogenously weather you smoke or not and without the doses of cannabinoids coming in that youd get from toking up there are a lot of empty receptors sites as they get accostomed to many more cannabinoids flooding the receptor after prolonged cannabis use, thus lack of appetite

This kind of stuff is easily found on the internet you know... also did you notice your one of the only people in this thread trying to deny what science has proved? i love pot as much as any stoner, probably more so, i havent got it out for the herb or anything its just the pharmacology of cannabis dont take it personally..

"Dude... we have dopamine, serotonin, adrenaline, insulin and many, many thousands more drugs in our bodies. Are these not drugs? You disagree that our biochemistry is dependent on "drugs"?"

no, those are not drugs, those are called neurotransmitters....


"Every process in our body, apart from maybe reflexes (or maybe not? If I remember correctly the synapses first initiate chemical reactions before the electrical signal is created?), arises through a chemical reaction which, in some way, alters a bodily function. Last time I checked that was the definition of a 'drug'."

if your body does what it does, drugs not involved, just neurotransmitters and stuff, this is not altering the way a body functions, this is a body functioning...


i do agree wholeheartedly about the importance of mans relationship with psychoactives though... you sound like me a few years ago, cool it a bit man, not everyone cares and you seem like you could stand to delve a little more deeply into biochem/phamocology/

i dont really understand what this has to do with the thread though?

 

[Chainer]

Jesus let this thread die

 

[jamaica0535]

i have never found weed all that addicting....

i have quit for months and not really been bothered about it....

I just love weed, its enjoyable....