Marijuana culture. ("420")

[Chaos Butterfly]

Shifting to Drug CUlture...

 

[The_Idler]

I'd bet my bottom dollar you couldn't recognize the origins of Hardcore Music in Black Metal as in Burzum, Bathory, Venom, or of Contemporary Metal and Hard Rock from King Diamond. Maybe you do, but do you know the pioneering of mainstream contemporary trance by the advent of the internet pushing Paul Oakenfold, Paul Van Dyk, Armin Van Buuren to recent fame? Would you know that KISS copied their image from Alice Cooper, that rap came from African origins, or the influences of The Beatles?

firstly, i do not need to know these things, to like the music.

secondly, i do know these things.



Where I am from, not many people say they can appreciate all music.

and not one person i have ever met,
has ever understood how i can enjoy classical,
gangsta rap, old skool hip-hop, psychedelic rock,
ska, reggae, punk, lounge, industrial,
industrial metal, black metal, rock n roll, disco,
gothic, dance, trance, rnb, motown and soul,
funk, jazz and sometimes i even listen to country.


well i can appreciate them, because i DO know about music.
about structure and composition and the subtle trends and influences.
i listen to music, because i like the music, not the idea of the music.
I appreciate the skills involved in it's production and composition.

i even listen to emo (when noone's around),
if it's well written and produced (some very good structures and progressions)
although i hate the idea of it, i still like the music.


so, how come, when i say, twice, that i am not stupid, and that i do appreciate any music,
you repeatedly attempt to assure me that i do not, and that i am trying to look "cool",
when, in my situation, saying this is almost the most uncool thing possible,
other than saying i do not like music at all.

anyone i meet who also appreciates Rammstein,
never also appreciates The Four Tops
vice-versa, in every direction.



dont just start insulting people based on that supposed stereotype of people trying to be cool.

If being able to appreciate all music is COOL,
then i am cool.

but i just think it's cool anyway,
i can talk about music with anyone-
and i very rarely find myself somewhere, where the music annoys me.
i could go to raves, folk festivals, live orchestra performances, metal concerts, ska gigs or any club-
and still enjoy the music, in every case.

I'd say that's pretty cool.

 

[The_Idler]

I mean really, what useful things has anyone gleaned from psychedelic drug use?

The structure of DNA?


one of the guys who was on acid and realised it,
(Francis Crick)
was born in my town, and went to my school.

that only revolutionised biological science,
so i guess he was just an elitist right?

 

[wArEhOuSePuNk]

Right now im in the process of leaving the " 420 " culture to become a member of the " Real World "

 

[center]

Right now im in the process of leaving the " 420 " culture to become a member of the " Real World "

Congrats ... see you on the real side.


Oh, and for the pigeon-fucker(s) who act like LSD is a god-send because someone happened to "discover" the double helix while on the substance-- just shut up.

If you're going to apply that kind of logic, let's see. Here's a short scale list of things that the two effected

LSD: Woodstock, Beatles, Double Helix...


Not being on LSD: The rest of the scientific,cultural and social related discoveries that were made in the years.


See? I can be a little simple minded prick, too.

 

[The_Idler]

hey, i dont worship it,
i was just answering the question =/


to me, him being on acid at the time is just a mildly humourous footnote.


LSD is a chemical, a drug.
whoop-dee, there's lot's of them,
and every effect or feeling they've ever caused can be explained by biochemistry.

 

[center]

I didn't know if you were one of these people that protect LSD's reputation as if it was the Golden Fleece.

In all reality, would someone have to defend LSD if it truly were as much of a holy sacrament as certain extremists portray it?

 

[Jake1er]

"we will cross that bridge when it comes"

 

[The_Idler]

lol, what, you mean just like God?

 

[center]

Oh.

My motto for life is .. "I'll do it tomorrow"...

Funny how I've become even more lazy since I've quit smoking pot. (nearing 5 months now)

 

[sansserif]

yo I'm with center on this one; I know a good bunch of psychonaut "philosphers" and mostly find them tiresome, confused and arrogant. I find that the only lasting things I learn from psychedelics are things about my own self and mind; nature of the universe, not so much. when I come down I usually remember that I don't actually understand the mystical secrets of reality, even though for eight hours I thought I did.

also can we talk about how "psychedelic art" is annoying? because it is. yes we have 7 colours. no you do not need to use all of them, everywhere, all at once.

 

[center]

Exactly. I have a certain friend who is EXACTLY like this. He's on Bluelight as well. I won't name any names, but he's the type of extremist to believe that Revelations (the bible chapter) was written under the influence of Psilocybin, because the island that Revelations was written on had species of psilocybin mushrooms.

Far-fetched, but anything resembling more than coincidence makes it a complete and dead-straight fact for him. Only if it comes to psychedelics, though.

He also believes that religion comes from naturally occuring psychadelics-- ie DMT/Bufotenin

 

[sansserif]

yeah, I've heard that one a shitload of times; I blame rick strassman.

I've also had the religion/psychedlics argument with a few of my friends, and it usually just breaks down into confusion. personally, I don't think it matters whether or not Revelations was written under the influence of psilocybin, or whether or not religion comes from DMT. it doesn't make religion more/less valid, and it doesn't make psychedelics holy. it doesn't make the universe any easier to understand. making thoughts three-dimensional and crystalline for a few hours is pretty sweet but, ultimately, only makes obvious the limitations of our comprehension.

I disagree with you about body load/visual effects/etc. being superficial or somehow peripheral to the psychedelic experience, though. I think there's something at least halfway important about surrendering agency over your body as well as your mind; I think it's a vivid reminder that you don't have as much agency in your life as you probably think you do.

I do agree that simply taking psychedelics for the tripping balls effect of seeing colours and walls move etc. is more akin to the "just getting fucked up" kind of drug use...which is totally fine by me as long as people don't maintain their airs of moral/intellectual superiority that often come along with psychedelic use

 

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

Secondly i do not think it is any of your business to judge how valuable a substance is to anyone other than yourself. Nor is it your place to dispute the fact that many gain useful insights from psychedelic drug exploration.

It's none of your business if I want to judge how valuable a substance is. It's cute how you tell me it's none of my business to judge. So much for being consistent.

Anyways, I'm not saying psychedelics are not valuable. What I'm saying is there is a high level of narcissism amongst psychonauts. Sure, you can get a lot of insights on them. But the idea that you can reach any sort of enlightenment you can't any other way is ridiculous.

For example, I heard one guy who did acid a couple say how only psychonauts can care about the environment, and that people don't care about the environment because they've never done acid (So then my friend says "Well I've never done acid before, I guess that's why I don't care about the environment!" and threw a coke can out the window of the car, LOL). I know this is just one experience, and of course personal experiences don't count as evidence, but what I'm trying to say is a lot of psychonauts believe that psychedelics lead to insights you can't get any other way.

And what insights do people can through psychedelics anyways? I think that many of these 'insights' people get through psychedelics are just predispositions they were forming before dosing in the first place. It's like people think that if you take psychedelics, suddenly you're cooler. There's an elitism among psychedelic drug use not found anywhere else that is extremely myopic, narcissistic, and ignorant.

But simply put psychadelic drugs are the quickest and safest ways to do this.

No they aren't. They are not the safest at all, there is nothing dangerous or risky about just reading a book. This is exactly the kind of BS I'm talking about. If you think that psychedelic drugs are the quickest way to personal revelations than you're just buying into the bullshit stereotypes of psychedelic drug use within the subculture.

Where in the world did you get the idea that one method is any more valid than the next?

No where, but I know that there is a distinct line between getting high for fun and learning stuff. This idea that people take drugs for any reason other than recreation is stupid. There's no difference between someone shooting up heroin and dosing LSD. Granted, I know that LSD is always an adventure and that you can learn some great insights to your own self as well as empower you to learn to take the doledrums of the week in a more relaxed manner since you just survived an acid trip, but this idea that so many psychonauts adhere to that they dose just to be more cultured, or whatever, is just bullshit to make themselves look cooler.

If they were trying to do that, as they say, then they would dose DXM, Dramamine, and some of the less euphoric drugs just as often.

I think everyone just needs to learn: If its not you and it is not negatively effecting you, its non of your business!

Well, there is actually an argument that supplying money to paramilitary sources who fund the manufacturing of drugs is actually negatively affecting me, but besides that (anyways I'm a hypocrit, i buy heroin)...

For one, god forbid I hold an opinion about something just because I'm not involved with the subject matter. This idea that if it's none of my business than I shouldn't think about it is ludicrous. People dying of AIDS in Africa doesn't negatively affect me directly, but I still give a shit about it and hold an opinion on the subject (Which is why I assume everyone here likes George Bush, since he has given more funding for AIDS than anyone in history, the only president to ever give a shit about AIDS in Africa, and has recently asked for tripling funding for AIDS in Africa as a priority).

It's just a discussion, quit saying we can't talk about it because it doesn't affect us. We're just saying we don't like it, so shoot us.

was simpy telling him good spots that hardly ever get raided took me about one second to think of each
are you telling me your not clever enough to hide drugs when getting pulled over by police? or u act paranoid and they do a full on search every time? i always keep my weed in the baggie n shove it down my boxers b4 i pull over..
ive had a copper that let me keep my last joint and some that have searched every corner off it entirly depends on da situation when your car is known for drugs on there system u get pulled when theres a car with a license plate camera behind anway

What I'm telling you is that if you think you can hide drugs in your car in a spot a police officer couldn't figure out, you're wrong, and sorely mistaken. Your advice was extremely bad and misleading, telling people that they can just hide their drugs and be safe. There is nowhere you can hide drugs that cops don't know about.

Your comment about "Or do I act paranoid and they do a full search" is stupid too. That's so misleading as well, the premise that if you don't act paranoid they won't search you is stupid. Cops use their discretion on many factors, and it doesn't matter how you act necessarily.

I know my rights, and have quite an in-depth understanding of Criminal and Business Law. I keep my drugs on my person, in a place that a terry-pat down won't find, such as in my socks. Cops can search around your car without permission - the immediate vicinity and anywhere within reach of the person in question. This is to make sure you don't have a weapon within reach of yourself when driving, or the passenger, et cetera.

I deny them from searching my car, my person, or anywhere, and that's that, and the end of it. Quite simple. I've been pulled over many times with drugs in the car, and many times cops have said they knew I have drugs in the car (many times when I didn't to). I simply refuse a search, and that's the end of it. If they want to bring the dogs, fine, I make their job difficult and let them get the dogs, which may not get a hit, or most likely, won't be able to come.

firstly, i do not need to know these things, to like the music.

secondly, i do know these things.

You don't listen all types of music, it's bullshit to say you do. There are so many types of music out there, one cannot possibly know them all and listen to them all. It's an insult to music to think you know all music, which implies that the short music you really do listen to is all that's important and culturally significant.

If being able to appreciate all music is COOL,
then i am cool.

LOL. Sure you are buddy.

The structure of DNA?


one of the guys who was on acid and realised it,
(Francis Crick)
was born in my town, and went to my school.

Right, and so was the polymerase chain reaction and so on. I mean, of course, it had nothing to do with these guys having an in-depth knowledge of chemistry and biology, and that these guys took acid simply to help with their studies and not for any recreational purpose, of course not! I'm sure when they took that acid, they were completely stoic about it, and doing it for research purposes. I'm sure these guys had absolutely no schooling at all, and that contributions of scientists before them had nothing to do with their discoveries.

Please. They made such discoveries because of research. They may have made ground-breaking revelations while on acid, and I can certainly agree that acid may have allowed them the different frame of reference to view things in a new and important light. But to say that drugs were responsible for such discoveries only serves to glorify drugs in an unrealistic manner and to insult previous discoveries and education as a whole. They just happened to be users who were very smart with lots of education.

 

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

A psychedelic experience can be very humbling to oneself. But it does not lead to enlightenment that can't be gleaned in other ways, and the idea that people take drugs for any reason other than personal recreation is just bullshit and narcissism.

It's also narcissistic and insulting to say you listen to all types of music. No you don't. People try to say they listen to all types of music just to make themselves look cool, just like psychonauts may say they take LSD to broaden their mind.

 

[Roger&Me]

^Having a novel experience by definition broadens the mind. LSD can provide quite a novel experience.

 

[sansserif]

buying 2% milk when you've only ever bought skim milk is a novel experience.

 

[VerbalTruist]

This swill belongs in the marijuana culture thread. Thanks.

 

[Student]

Anyways, I'm not saying psychedelics are not valuable. What I'm saying is there is a high level of narcissism amongst psychonauts. Sure, you can get a lot of insights on them. But the idea that you can reach any sort of enlightenment you can't any other way is ridiculous.

Did you even read my post? I was just trying to defend psychedelics being as valid as any other method to achieve a 'mystical state' not that they are the only way.8)

"For example, I heard one guy who did acid a couple say how only psychonauts can care about the environment, and that people don't care about the environment because they've never done acid (So then my friend says "Well I've never done acid before, I guess that's why I don't care about the environment!" and threw a coke can out the window of the car, LOL). I know this is just one experience, and of course personal experiences don't count as evidence, but what I'm trying to say is a lot of psychonauts believe that psychedelics lead to insights you can't get any other way."

Well this one guy does not seem to be very bright, do you think he would have smarter things to say if he wasn't talking about psychedelics? I would find yes a hard response to believe.

How do you know alot of psychnonauts believe this? How can you measure that?


"And what insights do people can through psychedelics anyways? I think that many of these 'insights' people get through psychedelics are just predispositions they were forming before dosing in the first place. It's like people think that if you take psychedelics, suddenly you're cooler. There's an elitism among psychedelic drug use not found anywhere else that is extremely myopic, narcissistic, and ignorant."

Ok so the rise of traditional use of psychedelics arose around the world way way back, people started and continued using psychedelics to look cool and only received insight because they predisposed themselves to it?

Psychedelics were explored by people before the 1900's you know. So industrialized countries ideas and treatment of psychedelics really doesn't matter as these societies seem to be able to fuck everything up, psychedelics included.

"No they aren't. They are not the safest at all, there is nothing dangerous or risky about just reading a book. This is exactly the kind of BS I'm talking about. If you think that psychedelic drugs are the quickest way to personal revelations than you're just buying into the bullshit stereotypes of psychedelic drug use within the subculture."

Ok so reading a book is going to propel you into mystical states? If it does im all for it but i dont want to be sitting there reading it for half my life before it works.

Besides reading a book, which i really have not heard of as being a mystical experience before this (religious texts yeah but i did not think that was what you are talkin about) , what other methods are there that are so safe and quick, and what exactly is so dangerous about traditional psychedelics in the first place? I feel that any altered state on par with a psychedelic experience inherently could lead to some danger mentally, but i don't think psychedelics are more likely to produce this result than any other method.


"No where, but I know that there is a distinct line between getting high for fun and learning stuff. This idea that people take drugs for any reason other than recreation is stupid. There's no difference between someone shooting up heroin and dosing LSD. Granted, I know that LSD is always an adventure and that you can learn some great insights to your own self as well as empower you to learn to take the doledrums of the week in a more relaxed manner since you just survived an acid trip, but this idea that so many psychonauts adhere to that they dose just to be more cultured, or whatever, is just bullshit to make themselves look cooler.

If they were trying to do that, as they say, then they would dose DXM, Dramamine, and some of the less euphoric drugs just as often."

Once agian, people used psychedelics throughout history, not just in the 1900, and i dont think they just wanted to get messed up. I dont need to expand on this because it is common knowledge and info is easily accessible. So it is absurd to say people only use psychedelics for recreation. Also i think almost everyone here would agree there is a large difference in shooting H and dosing.

You also said you can learn great insights in this paragraph, something you were debating was possible with psychedelics this whole time...

Also i dont think people would utilize DXM and Dramamine just as often because these drugs are a bit more dangerous and may not suit a persons needs as well. I mean i think it is ridiculous people put that shit in their body, especially if its done more than once, but that is for them to learn from.

 

[Roger&Me]

buying 2% milk when you've only ever bought skim milk is a novel experience.

+1. And it would by definition form new neural pathways and broaden the mind. I never said LSD was anything special, its simply just a catalyst for novel experiences.