MAOIs and Endogenous DMT

[FnX]

Ever since I've started taking moclobemide, I get a disctinctive (albeit rather mild) burnt plastic taste of DMT in my mouth constantly during the day, usually beginning 30 minutes to an hour from ingestion. Could this be because of endogenous DMT is getting broken down by MAO to a much less degree? Anyone else had similar experiences, especially with other MAOIs to rule out the possibility that the flavor I get is actually simply moclobemide? It's there every day even with no exogenous DMT involved.

There are other factors too which strengthen my beliefs that this is actually DMT: For me, the drug causes slight changes in the way my nervous system works so that all of my movements become much more intricate and accurate while also making me quite a bit faster in a weird way, don't know how to explain it properly but it's very noticeable when I'm typing on the keyboard or playing the piano for example. Moclobemide also causes this even with no other drug involved.

 

[sekio]

Other MAO-As like harmaline/harmine are considered to be mildly psychedelic.

I don't think endogenous DMT builds to appreciable levels with MAOI administration. it's much less prevalent than the other monoamines.

 

[Ismene]

Never noticed any burnt plastic taste when I've taken moclobemide.

 

[FnX]

Perhaps it boils down to individual reactions and biochemistry. What do 'appreciable' levels mean in this context though? I'm not experiencing anything even remotely psychedelic at least, I'd say the taste in my mouth that I've been experiencing is - when it comes to intensity - somewhere around sub micro-dose levels, less than a single milligram (I had a habit of microdosing sublingually for a while which could in theory also cause some kind of 'ghost taste' I guess).

I am assuming DMT has a somewhat significant role as a neurotransmitter or neuromodulator, therefore even minute increases should be noticeable at least in theory. The problem is we really don't know much about it's function in the human body as far as I've understood. Supposedly it acts as a sigma receptor ligand of which we don't know much about either. What we might extrapolate though is that some people tend to excrete more DMT and bufotenine than others as there are inconsistencies in research. Would it be way too far fetched of an idea that, MAO-A inhibition in the gut would lead to more DMT/bufotenine in the colon, of which a part might end up absorbed back to circulation? Perhaps some intermediate compounds from the tryptophan -> DMT biosynthesis route might end up hanging around for a slightly longer time leading to more DMT or compounds of similar effect such as bufotenine?

 

[psood0nym]

Would it be way too far fetched of an idea that, MAO-A inhibition in the gut would lead to more DMT/bufotenine in the colon, of which a part might end up absorbed back to circulation?

I think it's a lot more far fetched than the theory that the taste initially owed to some totally unanticipated physiological event (perhaps related to some facet of your MAOI use, or maybe just a funny-tasting stealth belch) and your own theorizing about MAO inhibition and DMT took care of the subsequent experiences by self-suggestion. If I recall correctly, one of the next goals in researching the role of DMT in the pineal gland of the rat is to quantify the levels present, though I doubt a rat would taste plastic even if its pineal gland was bursting at the seams. The taste of plastic is the result of tens of milligrams of DMT vapor passing directly over our tongues in the course of a few seconds. Heroin users report tasting the drug after IV use, but that involves rapid saturation of the blood. Even assuming MAO inhibition did result in highly elevated levels of endogenous DMT, the increase would be so gradual I'd expect desensitization to the taste might occur before it ever became more than subliminal.

 

[Ismene]

Could be down to the effect of the moclobemide on serotonin rather than DMT.

 

[FnX]

I think it's a lot more far fetched than the theory that the taste initially owed to some totally unanticipated physiological event (perhaps related to some facet of your MAOI use, or maybe just a funny-tasting stealth belch) and your own theorizing about MAO inhibition and DMT took care of the subsequent experiences by self-suggestion. If I recall correctly, one of the next goals in researching the role of DMT in the pineal gland of the rat is to quantify the levels present, though I doubt a rat would taste plastic even if its pineal gland was bursting at the seams. The taste of plastic is the result of tens of milligrams of DMT vapor passing directly over our tongues in the course of a few seconds. Heroin users report tasting the drug after IV use, but that involves rapid saturation of the blood. Even assuming MAO inhibition did result in highly elevated levels of endogenous DMT, the increase would be so gradual I'd expect desensitization to the taste might occur before it ever became more than subliminal.

The taste is there literally all day some time after taking my morning dose. It is as if it coated the insides of my mouth, so perhaps salivary excretions? It is also most certainly possible to distinctively taste even the tiniest speck of DMT crystal in the mouth in the microgram range, no need for dozens of milligrams for me at least. This has happened every day like a clockwork for months so I'm very reluctant to believe that it's all merely self-suggestion, something has definitely changed in my mouth or it's excretions. It could easily be something similar tasting that can be derived from serotonin but other than DMT, for example melatonin but I have not experimented with analyzing the taste of melatonin so I have little idea. I don't know about the desensitization of taste either if it's something in the saliva as the amount of saliva and it's contents are sure to vary enough throughout the day.

At least there is melatonin in the saliva by both active transport and passive diffusion. http://www.salimetrics.com/analytes/melatonin

http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-7091-9113-2_25 <- Would be an interesting read but I can't afford I'm afraid.

...However, in vivo moclobemide induced a significant increase of rat pineal NAS and melatonin content, and a dramatic decrease of 5-HIAA content (HPLC-fluorimetric procedure).

Speculation isn't usually very productive I know, but I'll be sure to write here if I find something concrete. Would be really interesting to do some salivary analysis with people taking moclobemide compared to controls...

 

[psood0nym]

The taste is there literally all day some time after taking my morning dose. It is as if it coated the insides of my mouth, so perhaps salivary excretions? It is also most certainly possible to distinctively taste even the tiniest speck of DMT crystal in the mouth in the microgram range, no need for dozens of milligrams for me at least.

What you're talking about is the tiniest spec of pure DMT exposed directly to taste receptors. This is profoundly different than micrograms circulating in around 5 liters of blood as it would be if released by the pineal gland. I can taste the tiniest grain of citric acid dropped on my tongue, but if administered it rectally in 10 mL of water I doubt the term "tangy" would come to mind despite the fact that the acid would be absorbed. Think of all the flavorful things we eat in high quantities, yet we don't keep tasting them for hours after we eat them despite the fact that they're being absorbed and circulated in our blood. You got excited about a pet theory. The experiental evidence for that theory is almost definitely self-suggestion: a powerful and very well-established psychological phenomena everybody is subject to no matter how hard we try not to be, whereas your theory is unestablished and highly unlikely based on numerous comparable examples .

 

[webbykevin]

I can taste the tiniest grain of citric acid dropped on my tongue, but if administered it rectally in 10 mL of water I doubt the term "tangy" would come to mind

wiping coffee from my keyboard, that got a burst of laughter out of me, thanks.