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MAOI and Fumarate

B

Brendles

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Hey BL! I've been trying to understand the differences between fumarate and hcl salts of DMT and was wondering how MAO affects the two forms of the molecule differently? Can anyone help me understand this?
 
They are both just salts of DMT, in the end they bind just as freebase dmt would. Chemicals are salted to increased bioavailabity, or sometimes they are salted upon synthesis/extraction. The different salts will not be affected any differently by monoamine oxidase.
 
in the body the dmt does not stay bound to the salt. upon oral ingestion it will be converted to the hcl salt because of the presence of hydrochloric acid secreted into the stomach

the two salts are different only in solubility, melting points, etc. and differ only slightly in potency. otherwise the effects are identical and mao works on them both exactly the same
 
Albeit with great difficulty in the preparation of a solid, crystalline HCl salt in the case of DMT, Shulgin notably said he had great difficulty and could obtain the product only as a resinous compound.

Fumarate tends to get used in pharmaceutical research w/DMT (and other things) as its both fairly nontoxic as a counterion for preparing salts of things in the case of which HCl salts are not generally amenable for animal/human investigations for solubility, toxicity reasons etc. and for crystallising things of dubious solubility as hydrochlorides.

As said, once taken orally (of course not, without MAOI, of much use at all in the case of DMT) once the compound reaches stomach acid then the HCl salt is formed in solution in situ, and in any case when given intravenously or other parenteral route, then (and once they reach the brain) dissociation of the counterion from the freebase drug occurs in any case.
 
Limpet_Chicken said:
Albeit with great difficulty in the preparation of a solid, crystalline HCl salt in the case of DMT, Shulgin notably said he had great difficulty and could obtain the product only as a resinous compound.

Fumarate tends to get used in pharmaceutical research w/DMT (and other things) as its both fairly nontoxic as a counterion for preparing salts of things in the case of which HCl salts are not generally amenable for animal/human investigations for solubility, toxicity reasons etc. and for crystallising things of dubious solubility as hydrochlorides.

As said, once taken orally (of course not, without MAOI, of much use at all in the case of DMT) once the compound reaches stomach acid then the HCl salt is formed in solution in situ, and in any case when given intravenously or other parenteral route, then (and once they reach the brain) dissociation of the counterion from the freebase drug occurs in any case.
Click to expand...

The point is however, if what he would be purchasing is truely DMT HCL its more economical to purchase the HCL rather than the fumerate. The salt has already been prepared.
 
Spatially, how closely associated does the acid (hcl / fumarate / etc) part stay associated or bound to the basic amine when in solution? Are the ions free, or do they stay paired together with ionic bonds?
 
The proton binds to the nitrogen forming a quaternary ammonium centre, the chloride or whatever is theoretically free to move about in solution.
 
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