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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Manchester Arena explosion: 22 killed in 'terror attack by suicide bomber' at concer

So, you're saying that laws won't change in sweden if muslims are 51%? They'll still have things like separation of church and state, gender equality, gay marriage, things like that?
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absolutely yes. of course they will.
you expect muslims to vote as a bloc on every issue to be able to change sweden into a backwards fundamentalist shithole with 51% of the population? that's rather naive. your view of muslims isn't that simplistic, really?
i think you're having us on.

and i find it pretty laughable to take ISIS propaganda as a reputable source of information.
 
Why are we even really considering this? Figures I have read put the population at about 4% of Swedes. That's not especially significant. I cannot see it increasing by many orders of magnitude any time soon. Sweden will be okay, Ryan, you may sleep soundly.
 
i would argue that the United States are a bigger threat to Sweden's Social Democracy than muslims.

ISIS do want muslims to be pariahs in the western world as it is great for recruitment. surely you understand the principal in that argument - but what is your counterargument to refute it?
it still doesn't answer my question about which "left wing activists" isis has been "working with".

also, i'm not the one spreading the messages from ISIS propaganda books - so be careful before you go accusing me of "working with ISIS" :D
 
^To the contrary. The ideology of a group like ISIS is far closer to the far right than left. Have you read some of your own recent posts?

Curious why you think the Muslim population shouldn't exceed 2%. Where'd you pluck that from? The same hat as that left wing activist shit? :\
 
Why do so many on the right wing think that the Western way of life is inferior?

I don't. I think the Western way of life is pretty damn good, and when immigrants see it, most of them will adopt it within a generation or two. They may add their own twist to it, but it's not going to fundamentally change.

Yet the argument against immigration seems to be that immigrants won't adopt our beliefs. Seems like we have some pretty shitty beliefs if they can't compete against other beliefs. I disagree with that. Muslim immigration isn't a threat to the West - it's a threat to the radical Islamist fringe. The West will be the place that will develop and harbor a liberal interpretation of Islam, one that'll be superior, because, hell, lets face it, this whole Western ideology thing has some pretty appealing things about it.
 
Escher's Waterfall said:
Why do so many on the right wing think that the Western way of life is inferior?

I don't. I think the Western way of life is pretty damn good, and when immigrants see it, most of them will adopt it within a generation or two. They may add their own twist to it, but it's not going to fundamentally change.

Yet the argument against immigration seems to be that immigrants won't adopt our beliefs. Seems like we have some pretty shitty beliefs if they can't compete against other beliefs. I disagree with that. Muslim immigration isn't a threat to the West - it's a threat to the radical Islamist fringe. The West will be the place that will develop and harbor a liberal interpretation of Islam, one that'll be superior, because, hell, lets face it, this whole Western ideology thing has some pretty appealing things about it.
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Your analysis is coming from a secular person's perspective. You aren't taking into account the fact that a religious zealot is not going to be convinced that the 'other way' is better, because he is convinced that Allah's and Muhammad's teachings tell him it is sinful, and those that practice it are kuffar.

This is why the threat of Islamism is underestimated. Because a secular Western person can't really get a grip on just how deep and passionate an Islamists beliefs are, and how damn convinced he is that he is RIGHT and the others are Infidels
 
Look at what's happening in France and the UK. Yes, some Muslims are secularised, sure. But its more complicated than that. Theres a strong push against any "westernisation" of Islam. Islamist movements are gaining strength. Watch the video where women get kicked out of a coffee shop in the suburbs of Paris. This stuff is happening and you guys on the left are going to have to confront reality at some point. People who have stuck true to liberal values are working damn hard so that your eventual confrontation with reality doesnt take place in an extremely violent and horrible fashion.

And as i said, the life of a young Muslim who becomes 'secularised' to an extent is more complicated than "ok well they have started drinking, dont go to the mosque anymore and have casual sex, so now they are 'westernised'" - technically speaking that is true, but that person may still hate Western culture and regard it as haram (breathtaking hypocrisy I know) and would be in favour of an Islamist uprising. Anjem Choudary was one such individual, who did all those things and then become a hardline Islamist who assisted ISIS.

Lets not forget that at the core of Islam is breathtaking hypocrisy. An Islamist is supposed to be 'sexually pure' but men are still allowed to have their way with non-Muslim women. So a young muslim guy can become an Islamist and not have to give up getting pussy on the side. Homosexual sex is a mortal sin but is widespread throughout the Arab world.
 
Somerandomdude said:
Your analysis is coming from a secular person's perspective. You aren't taking into account the fact that a religious zealot is not going to be convinced that the 'other way' is better, because he is convinced that Allah's and Muhammad's teachings tell him it is sinful, and those that practice it are kuffar.
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Officer Bradley, I wanna declare Shenanigans!

Either our ideology is strong enough to stand by itself, or it deserves to die. Either one or another.

My money is on that our ideology is strong.

Yours is that our ideology is weak enough that it'll be wiped out.

I don't think that's the case.
 
Escher's Waterfall said:
Officer Bradley, I wanna declare Shenanigans!

Either our ideology is strong enough to stand by itself, or it deserves to die. Either one or another.

My money is on that our ideology is strong.

Yours is that our ideology is weak enough that it'll be wiped out.

I don't think that's the case.
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Our ideology needs to be supported and protected to stand. Not denigrated and undermined by self-flagellating leftists.

You're overlooking the relentless battering that national pride and pride in western values has taken over the last 40-50 years thanks to the traitors that inhabit academia and politics.
 
Again, your answer ignores the crazy things that religious zeal and a belief in paradise can drive someone to do.

I forgot to add, the aforementioned hard left infiltration of politics, media and academia has literally given rise to a generation of kids who grow up hating Western culture and beleiving that White people are inherently evil.

example: as a kid i was obsessed with history. Mainly english history but history in general too. I collected these magazines for kids called 'horrible histories' and i also read anything i could get my hands on about history. It implanted a subconscious bias against white people in my brain. Up until a few years ago I was one of those people who thought that white people have done so many bad things that we are forever tainted etc etc...

My mind opened and I realised the truth about bias in education and academia. I know I'm rambling somewhat here but I'm in a rush and have to get back to studying
 
education informs us.
but not everything is about bias, indoctrination or racial cataloguing of dark historical matters. attempting to politicise historical education materials as "bias against white people" and "hard left infiltration of politics, media and academia" is nonsensical.
if you are interested in English history, you're inevitably going to read some fucked up things about "white people".

anything else is sugar-coating.
 
spacejunk said:
education informs us.
but not everything is about bias, indoctrination or racial cataloguing of dark historical matters. attempting to politicise historical education materials as "bias against white people" and "hard left infiltration of politics, media and academia" is nonsensical.
if you are interested in English history, you're inevitably going to read some fucked up things about "white people".

anything else is sugar-coating.
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You've just demonstrated my point. You have no problem referring to 'bad things done by white people' in such a general sense, like white people are this monolith that all played a part in things like the slave trade, colonisation etc..

The vast majority of whites never owned slaves or took an active role in displacing indigenous people from their land. That was done almost exclusively by white men who owned land.

They never talk about the role that Arabs and even fellow Africans played in the slave trade. Bigger and stronger tribes would round up and capture smaller tribes and sell them to the Arabs/europeans. It never gets talked about and instead what kids grow up hearing is how evil all white men are.
 
Any particular reason why a syrian suicide bomber killing 86 in a bomb on a bus or a suicide bomber in Kabul that killed more than Manchester has not rated a mention?
 
zephyr said:
Any particular reason why a syrian suicide bomber killing 86 in a bomb on a bus or a suicide bomber in Kabul that killed more than Manchester has not rated a mention?
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Both absolutely atrocious, RIP to the victims.

I'm the first to admit that, regrettably, we are pretty desensitized to hearing about violence in the middle east. It's fucked.

And naturally, an attack in a country we are culturally more similar to is always going to hit harder in terms of what it means for us.
 
I actually didnt think isis gave a shit about the west. They just wanted a particular part of Syria or several landmarks in that area and went and got those areas.

If Western countries would withdraw all support for/against the middle east countries, I would think ther would be no more terror action.


But thats just a theory.

Then theres the oil and access to it and prices.

Oil is cheap nowaday because Saudi is doing that intentionally to drive Russia out of the market and its working. Russian oil is so much more expensive to extract and will never be as plentiful. So its not a level market. Saudi didnt have to drive Russia out of the market but they have been doing so anyway.

I wonder what would happen to world oil prices if everyone just withdrew and just paid the market price.

Its the only real way to stop the terrorist bullshit just face it.
 
You've just demonstrated my point. You have no problem referring to 'bad things done by white people' in such a general sense, like white people are this monolith that all played a part in things like the slave trade, colonisation etc..
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What point?
I think you're getting defensive about "race" guilt when it is nothing of the sort. History is full of examples of people doing cruel and unpleasant things.
To claim that there is some "anti-white" bias in history is laughable. We're talking about history that included actual invasion, real genocide and all manner of dark things.

If you're concerned that white people's atrocities are so well documented in children's history books, you might want to consider why that is.
Tip: it's got nothing to do with some campaign on behalf of the "hard left" to make white kids hate their heritage.
 
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