Pharmacology Making a nasal spray solution out of various substances like Oxycodone,cocaine and Ketamine.

[Echotango]

Their are quite a few studies on sublingual and buccal administration of benzodiazepines with the papers available on-line. The conclusion was that onset and bioavailability was almost identical to IV administration. Neither are instant which I suggest is because the drug has to cross the BBB and it's that which is the limiting factor.

They are the first to point out that it's an off-label ROA BUT at least it ensures that until administration, the drug is being stored in an approved format. Solutions (e.g. injectable formulations) generally require careful formulation and almost always have a much shorter shelf-life. I don't think they become dangerous, I just think that N-oxides (for example) form which slowly reduces the amount of active.

I mean, if it psychologically makes you feel better to have a nasal spray then by all means, but it seems like a lot of research is already out there and if sublingual essentially achieves the same goal, it requires no action. You just have to remember to hold them under your tongue.

Lol using Midazolam sublingual has similar issues as trying to use the tablets for nasal just bit less annoying as it has a lot of binders and fillers and doesn't taste good I'd imagine either... I just hope it doesn't taste awful like some benzodiazepines.

I also find using benzos in a solution sublingually instead of via a crushed pill into a powder then dumped under the tongue does appear to absorb quicker and more thoroughly but that might just be placebo on me lol idk... it makes sense though.


Also the studies for sublingual aren't a good ROA for every single benzo are you sure Midzoalm is 1 of them? I'd assume it is based on the fact it's suitable for nasal administration.


If Midazolam is a benzo suitable for sublingual ROA where do I find out 100% for sure the potenital absorbption % for sublingual ROA of Midazolam which I'll make a solution out of the pills for that? Actually I just remembered that Midazolam DOES have a lower oral bioavailability but I'm not sure the difference of the sublingual vs. intranasal bioavailaiblity % but if someone with knowledge on that subject can figure it out.

Midazolam is a bit weird in terms of ROA absorption % etc. compared to most other RX benzos these days I to make a cocaine nasal spray since I have some lying around and I've always wanted to make it for various reasons like less damage to the nostrils and more effective absorption potentially but my concern has always been on how do I correctly and acccurately measure the dose per spray even if I know exactly how pure it is? its roughly 84%. What information do I need to help determine the dose per spray of liquid with I'm assuming PURIFIed and not distilled water will work and i don't need any additional solvent for cocaine as I know it's super water soluble.

 

[AlsoTapered]

https://olh.ie/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Benzodiazepines-via-the-Buccal-or-Sublingual-Routes-in-Palliative-Care.pdf

Sublingual plus oral midazolam without intravenous access to complement topical anesthesia for phacoemulsification surgery

OA Text is an independent open-access scientific publisher showcases innovative research and ideas aimed at improving health by linking research and practice to the benefit of society.

oatext.com

Premedication with midazolam is equally effective via the sublingual and intravenous route of administration

Signa Vitae is an international peer-reviewed open access journal, which is currently indexed in SCIE, scopus, etc. It covers many aspects of adult, pediatric and neonatal intensive care, anesthesia and emergency medicine

www.signavitae.com

Yep - I just posted the first three mentioning midazolam but their are MANY. The key finding that sublingual was as effective as IV. Midazolam is particularly water-soluble (for a benzodiazepine) and so is the most suited to sublingual administration but the methodology has been applied to most of the more water-soluble examples.

 

[Echotango]

https://olh.ie/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Benzodiazepines-via-the-Buccal-or-Sublingual-Routes-in-Palliative-Care.pdf

Sublingual plus oral midazolam without intravenous access to complement topical anesthesia for phacoemulsification surgery

OA Text is an independent open-access scientific publisher showcases innovative research and ideas aimed at improving health by linking research and practice to the benefit of society.

oatext.com

Premedication with midazolam is equally effective via the sublingual and intravenous route of administration

Signa Vitae is an international peer-reviewed open access journal, which is currently indexed in SCIE, scopus, etc. It covers many aspects of adult, pediatric and neonatal intensive care, anesthesia and emergency medicine

www.signavitae.com

Yep - I just posted the first three mentioning midazolam but their are MANY. The key finding that sublingual was as effective as IV. Midazolam is particularly water-soluble (for a benzodiazepine) and so is the most suited to sublingual administration but the methodology has been applied to most of the more water-soluble examples.

Okay thanks for the information. Now I'll definitely use sublingual route instead if it is indeed truly the same as I.V. or at least better absorption than a nasal spray. But I read conflicting information so I'm not sure what source of information to trust for a "verified" amount of absorption?

 

[Pill Clinton]

What technique the wheel filter/micron filter method is that what your talking about? If you know another method please lmk as I'm winging it here lol.

the whole idea of putting it in a nasal spray is amazing to me I've been lol into the scene since 2006 the thought has crossed my mind however I'm not great at science lol. It would seriously solve all my problems if i could just get Dilaudid, Ritalin, Coke & Roxi's all in one nasal spray lol. It's like a wet dream esp. when I can get my hands on pure white mixed with opana.

 

[AlsoTapered]

The stability of solutions is problematic and multiple actives in solution would make things even more complex.

I'm presuming that is why sublingual and buccal administration are favoured if onset time is especially important for that particular medicine.

 

[Echotango]

The stability of solutions is problematic and multiple actives in solution would make things even more complex.

I'm presuming that is why sublingual and buccal administration are favoured if onset time is especially important for that particular medicine.

Ya the stability of the solution is what i need help with deciding the best "solvent" for what i need. I would also be making seperate solutions in separate nasal spray bottles for each "active medicinal ingredient" I put into them.

 

[AlsoTapered]

I think I mentioned that almost every medicine you can think of has been developed as a nasal spray and the methodology patented. I couldn't tell you the best search terms but from what I've seen, people have done the work and patented it.

Preservatives are the rule rather than the exception. It's also worth remembering that they would never use tap water but dH2O because, well, you really need a pure solvent to ensure consistency. Sorry if that's obvious - I didn't intend to patronize you.

 

[Echotango]

I think I mentioned that almost every medicine you can think of has been developed as a nasal spray and the methodology patented. I couldn't tell you the best search terms but from what I've seen, people have done the work and patented it.

Preservatives are the rule rather than the exception. It's also worth remembering that they would never use tap water but dH2O because, well, you really need a pure solvent to ensure consistency. Sorry if that's obvious - I didn't intend to patronize you.

No thank you... that's exactly the kind of helpful HR information I'm seeking by making this post. I did not even think of the purity of my H20 for using it with.

 

[Drag2019]

Just for the record is there anything I should know before attempting to do this with ketamine or similar dissociative substances of it's class?

As I mentioned before I'm obviously going to make each ACTIVE "ingredient"/substance in separate nasal spray bottles for each different 1 I make with whatever necessary inactive ingredients for maximum efficacy.

 

[Skorpio]

Main issue is that these solutions can't be kept indefinately as Someguyontheinternet mentioned. Even if sterile, using the sprays will contaminate them, and the microbial growth clock will start ticking.

Also, not mentioned in this thread, but cocaine is not very stable for long periods of time in water. The water molecules will attack the ester, breaking down the cocaine over time.

 

[Drag2019]

How long do I have before the nasal spray bottle gets to contaminated/risky to continue using and would wiping it off with alcohol wipes or something similar to cleanse any bacteria on it, be beneficial at all?


What would be better than water to use for cocaine and would I want to use a different "solvent" than what is considered preferred to use for Cocaine compared to Ketamine I'd guess would require a different "solvent" but I honestly got no idea lol?

 

[Isavelaa]

How long do I have before the nasal spray bottle gets to contaminated/risky to continue using and would wiping it off with alcohol wipes or something similar to cleanse any bacteria on it, be beneficial at all?


What would be better than water to use for cocaine and would I want to use a different "solvent" than what is considered preferred to use for Cocaine compared to Ketamine I'd guess would require a different "solvent" but I honestly got no idea lol?

I would use saline for those.