Film Mad Max: Fury Road

[ForEverAfter]

I appreciate the non-hostile response... and, no, I don't care too much if I get it. As I said, I suspect that I won't... And, of course taste is subjective. While I don't like Game of Thrones and I think it's mainstream appeal is odd, I get why people like it. If it was just battle scenes, I'd be confused. But, it isn't.

I'm actually somewhat more confused after your response.
I feel like we saw different movies or something, like you suggested (earlier) to someone else in this thread...

When Spielberg made Jaws, the mechanical shark - Bruce - broke down. So they had to craft a film about a shark with seriously limited use of the shark. The critics, unaware of this, proclaimed him a minimalist genius (and maybe he was: see Duel vs. Mad Max [or maybe, if he had a bigger budget, he would have made an alternate version of Duel like Fury Road])... There is a tendency, these days, to go overboard with "the shark effects" (IMO), because we don't have the limitations in cinema that we used to... Road Warrior is a good example. The limited budget meant that Miller had to make his prop cars from scrap metal and - consequently, given the scope of the film - the cars had an apocalyptic aesthetic... Fast forward twenty years and he's produced a 3D version of Road Warrior with a massive budget and an electric guitar that shoots fire balls... While Road Warrior is the best of the series, by far, it's not my cup of tea. But it had a gritty realism to it. Fury Road traded that in for over-the-top sensationalism.

It seems like if you pump enough money into a film, and include enough exploding cars, people love it.
(Furious 7 is the 4th highest grossing movie of all time...)

Is this a horror movie? I though it was a pretty straight forward action film with fantasy/science-fiction elements...?
(I take it you're referring to Snowpiercer, as the flick I'm head over heels about?)

i'm looking for smaller, more obsessive, things in films that tell a larger story. this has them all in spades. the symbolism and feminist dog whistles are so strong, so present, that i left the film basically shellshocked. i couldn't believe what i had witnessed (), especially in terms of what i had seen before.

Can you elaborate about the symbolism, a bit?

even the way characters are framed by the camera is radical and sexless.

Sexless?!?

action and horror have the best potential but usually fall so fucking short. horror with heart, you know? action with a purpose. rare to find those, and mad max definitely has a purpose.

What do you mean by "the best potential"? The best potential for what?
What was the purpose of Mad Max: Fury Road?

All this talk about female empowerment and feminism sounds a bit crazy to me. (No offense.) SO many films over the past decade have had unrealistically strong female characters, in order to pander to the expectation that we're all equal (even when we're not).

god forbid one movie in a thousand should have a strong female presence...

I laughed out-loud, when I read this.

 

[Kenickie]

Is this a horror movie? I though it was a pretty straight forward action film with fantasy/science-fiction elements...?

no it's an action film, but the message i got from the film - the horrible things humans can do to each other, was pretty horrifying.

(I take it you're referring to Snowpiercer, as the flick I'm head over heels about?)

yes

Can you elaborate about the symbolism, a bit?

mad max washing the blood off his face with breast milk, laying piles of guns down infront of a circle of five visibly pregnant and not visibly pregnant women. the dag clipping her chastity belt off - complete with teeth (sup vagina dentata!), god damn.

the seed collector only being able to grow seeds in the skull of a dead animal. the seed collector - part of the matriarchal war tribe the many mothers - passing her collection of seeds off to the dag, an avowed pacifist as she dies in the back of a war rig

the splendid using her body, impregnated by rape, to protect other women - can you even imagine how crazy she must feel? does she love her child? hate it? she acts recklessly but also with deliberate consideration (she knows immortan won't shoot 'his property'), she must be so torn about what is happening to her

imperator and max & the rifle. so awesome. he can't make the shot, but she can. but she also has a handicap - she can't hold the gun. instead of max embarrassing her, making a big show of how she needs his help to hold the gun steady to make the shot, he moves his head and she makes the shot from his shoulder. a true partnership with mad respect of each others skills. it's awful to say but that shit is astounding. it does not happen between men and women on screen, hardly ever.

this is not a feminist movie because "women can drive and kill people too!" because yeah they can (and i've always been told that women poison, they like dainty meek weapons so all out brutality is refreshing) but the way the women respond to the violence. the brides are appalled when furiosa starts killing people (you said no killing!) and keep her from killing the sickly war boy nux, the many mothers say 'one bullet one man' - they do not do masochistic unnecessary violence - where as the men (aside from max) glory and revel in all kinds of violence (what the fuck happened to slit's face that he's so proud of?). on top of that - it shows concern for men too, because patriarchy hurts all of us. what are the war boys but expendable meatbags? they fight and die for our entertainment, and when we meet nux he's a crazed slowly dying war machine, focused on one goal - return the women for his leader/god immortan joe. but he doesn't end that way, does he? and he even gets his salvation, he expresses empathy and maybe even love, and she is able to be his witness. the liberation of men and women from systems that exploit and hurt them is feminist as fuck and so absolutely radical that i can't believe this movie is a mainstream hit.

Sexless?!?

yes, sexless. are you aroused watching a woman remove tools of her enslavement off her body? is that erotic to you? the camera doesn't linger, doesn't drift over her body in some warm washed out lana del rey haze. she cuts the belt off her body, and kicks it to the sand. the whole scene where the women are climbing out of the war rig for the first time and bathing is a huge deal. we could have had wet white bikinis , look at her tits, omg. but no. we get something way more nuanced and important. it is, after all, where our main characters meet each other for the first time.

What do you mean by "the best potential"? The best potential for what?
What was the purpose of Mad Max: Fury Road?

the best potential to get across a complicated message. i think mad max fury road shows us something disgusting about ourselves that maybe we've seen but don't really accept. those women held captive by immortan - this happens here, in the united states. remember those women in cleveland, held hostage for a decade, forced to give birth to the children of rape? the women who are trafficked to the US under 'fake marriages' and promises of jobs, etc? women who have escaped FDLS cults? this isn't some like...over the top sexism or misogyny in some cartoonish fashion. this is real and this is happening around you. the hoarding of resources, the control of people through water. california would like to have a word with you. the best media holds up a mirror and shows us ourselves, even if its something ugly.

All this talk about female empowerment and feminism sounds a bit crazy to me. (No offense.) SO many films over the past decade have had unrealistically strong female characters, in order to pander to the expectation that we're all equal (even when we're not).

like what, natasha romanoff from avengers? pfft. is furiosa unrealistic when there are parts in the film where she is physically incapable of doing something and needs max's help, or nux's help, or the brides help? (the rifle, repairing the war rig on the go, climbing on to immortan's rig, etc) in the past decade i think i've only seen one female character who made me glow with pride at her strength, and that was mako maori from pacific rim, who also asks for help when she needs it and has vulnerabilities that she has to work to overcome to save the world. along with a disabled scientist. fuck that movie was baller. aside from that - ripley from alien? and the horrors of motherhood. oh i guess harry potter. and game of thrones. feminism doesn't mean every woman has to be lara croft, but that there are women who are the full range of women - strong, weak, sick, fighters, criers, whatever - like they are real human people who feel real human things.

 

[alasdairm]

I laughed out-loud, when I read this.

good stuff. you seem like such a grumpy bastard all the time it's good to learn that you can see the light side once in a while

alasdair

 

[ForEverAfter]

you seem like such a grumpy bastard all the time it's good to learn that you can see the light side once in a while

Again, dude, you have no idea who I am.
Last time I said this to you, you said "indeed".
I'm not a grumpy bastard. I'm just not a rabid fanboy...
You act like a prick as much as I do, if not more, you just do it in a polite way.
Personally, I prefer it when people don't hide behind falsities.

There are many members of this forum that don't like you.
I've been warned (by numerous members) not to engage you, because you have a reputation.
Apparently, there's no point. Yet, here we are again...
I guess I just don't like being called a bastard.
Go figure?

Stop passive-aggressively picking fights with me.
You do it in such a way, that you can deny it later.

I get it. You think I'm negative. But, you're wrong.
I don't see the light side "once in a while".
I'm a happy up-beat person.
I sing silly songs all day.
You don't know shit.

Can we stay on topic - maybe - and skip the rest of these back-handed insults of yours, that aren't quite offensive enough to be moderated and vague enough to allow you to plead ignorance after the fact? (This applies to all future threads, too.) Okay?

 

[alasdairm]

Again, dude, you have no idea who I am.

which is why i said "seem" and not "are".

There are many members of this forum that don't like you.

i'll try to find a way to live with that.

I've been warned (by numerous members) not to engage you...

then stop doing it?

I guess I just don't like being called a bastard.

i included the internet standard symbol to indicate levity - the smiley. i'm sorry that you've decided to ignore that and read too much into a comment intended to be on the lighter side.

I'd appreciate it if you keep your personal comments to yourself.

lolironic. you must be the change you wish to see in the world?

have a great day.

alasdair

 

[ForEverAfter]

Like I said:

You do it in such a way, that you can deny it later.

Utterly predictable. Provoke a reaction from me.
But, do it with a smiley emoticon, so you can deny it later.

You need to grow up, buddy.

have a great day.

More passive-aggressive bullshit.

I'd appreciate it if you keep your personal comments to yourself.

lolironic. you must be the change you wish to see in the world?

I didn't make any personal comments, until you insulted me.

I've been warned (by numerous members) not to engage you...

then stop doing it?

Why shouldn't I defend myself?
You started this, as usual.

 

[Kenickie]

Can we shut the fuck up and just talk about Mad Max here? I'm about to view for the third time and Capable and Flame throwing guitar dude have been married for years.

 

[alasdairm]

^ indeed.

thanks for the pm, foreverafter. starting to think you have a little crush on me

[note the smiley - that is a joke!]

back on topic, am i the only one who thinks tom hardy is not a very good actor?

alasdair

 

[Kenickie]

i can't wait for the blu ray where he is completely silent and the whole film is black and white as the director shot it. boss.

 

[quiet roar]

So it's not the aberration that 3 was. I probably won't see it, but it's nice to know.

 

[ForEverAfter]

So it's not the aberration that 3 was. I probably won't see it, but it's nice to know

Yeah, don't see it...
Unless you like violence porn.

am i the only one who thinks tom hardy is not a very good actor?

No, you're not the only one.
Also, did anybody else notice that he's kind of reprising his Bain role?
Gruff voice. Tough guy. Wears a mask over his face.

Keneckie, I didn't understand your ramblings about symbolism.
You were, mostly, just describing scenes from the film...
I think, maybe, you think MM is deeper than it actually is.

I'm a feminist, by the way, and I found the so-called feminist aspects patronizing as fuck.
Why don't they cast an actual tough woman in Charlize Theron's role?
She looks like a model, and she doesn't even have much muscle tone.

Wow.
I'm scared.

Cover the top half of her face with the palm of your hand.

...

Am i the only one who thinks she is not a very good actor?

...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4575512/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_5

(The sequel.)

 

[Kenickie]

I'm a feminist, by the way, and I found the so-called feminist aspects patronizing as fuck.

Wow.
I'm scared.

tell me how you really feel about ladies then

 

[ForEverAfter]

Fury Road isn't feminist. It's the opposite.
I'm sick of seeing pretty women in films...
Hollywood casting is fucking sexist.

Charlize Theron picked up the Academy Award for "being brave enough" to play an "ugly chick".
I look forward to a time when directors are brave enough to cast more unattractive women in lead roles.

Sexless?!?

yes, sexless. are you aroused watching a woman remove tools of her enslavement off her body? is that erotic to you? the camera doesn't linger, doesn't drift over her body in some warm washed out lana del rey haze. she cuts the belt off her body, and kicks it to the sand. the whole scene where the women are climbing out of the war rig for the first time and bathing is a huge deal. we could have had wet white bikinis , look at her tits, omg. but no. we get something way more nuanced and important. it is, after all, where our main characters meet each other for the first time.

If you honestly think no male movie-goers are aroused by scantily-clad models with perfect skin playing sex slaves in a films, then you're not very in touch with the typical male mentality. Do I find them attractive? No. But, I don't go for the "super hot" types. Vanity is a turn off, for me.

we could have had wet white bikinis , look at her tits, omg. but no.

Bikinis in an apocalyptic setting? No, I don't think so.
Given the context, they were as slutty looking as possible.
They're wearing the apocalypse version of white bikinis and they're posing like models.

This picture is so close to a beer commercial.
I don't know how you can't see that.

And sexless is the wrong word, for whatever you're trying to say.
The removal of the chastity belt is sexual, by nature.
They're directly referencing the vagina.
It is an act of sexual liberation.

Combine that with the glistening perfect skin, wrapped in rags... Surely, they could have thrown something over themselves.
I forgive films, somewhat, when there's some sort of justification for (otherwise out of context) half-naked women.
But, in Fury Road, they don't even attempt to justify it. It's just blatant objectification. Because, sex sells.
This film has absolutely nothing, whatsoever, to do with feminism.
It's pretty much the same as all the rest of the Hollywood sexist shit.
The only difference is, it pretends that it isn't. Which makes it worse.

 

[hydroazuanacaine]

we talking feminism, media, and beauty? going to go see this tonight just so i can participate in this thread.

 

[hydroazuanacaine]

this film is feminist in that it intentionally provides material for analysis of gender roles and relations. this film is not feminist in that it does not further women's liberation or gender equality.

it has all these moments and plot aspects that are drawing attention to low brow aspects of women's lib. like the girl saying they're not objects. the chastity device. the aggressive male calling a pregnant girl and her unborn child his property. a female-only warrior tribe. a strong female with character development (in a film of this genre). it also has at least two digs about penis size.

when i was watching, i thought these were just random injections to give the film a feminist buzz. after reading Kenickie's post, i believe that they are strung together with some intention and comprehensibility. particularly the relationship between the two leads. and the female being a flawed hero, not the ridiculously tough girl that ForEverAfter references. though she certainly does have a few characteristics of that cliche.

but the primary tool of gender oppression is teaching people that their value in society is based on their sex appeal. this film affirms that criteria. is it serving as a mirror? if Kenickie wants.

how fantastic is abbey lee kershaw as a post-apocloliptic pixie? height really is beauty. and even though rosie didn't quite have the allure of abby, she's lovely as the pregnant "splendid." this film attempts to pull no punches, and casting super models to fill the role of hand-picked, elite beauties might have been the only area it came through. along with the revamped drummer boy.

i'm an avid comic book reader, and i know that has altered what i like in films and what i look for. a movie can be hung on a single frame (panel) for me. i'm pretty sure that this film was hung on the shot of max with the guns against the splendid's neck, smooth skin interrupted by white scars and dirty black guns.

this is all i was hoping for from Mad Max: Road of Fury. a comic book world, delivering cool moments of far out post-apocalyptic imagery. i think my favorite shot is the first glimpse of something light and pretty in contrast with the grisly rig trailer. the vehicles deliver well enough, and the synecdoche-ish importance put on the steering wheels adds to it. my main complaint is that the film does not have more of this world at this caliber. so much of it is one vehicle trying to get in front of another. the mutated warlords, sand people, amazons, mother's milk, and freak children are iterations of post-apocolyptic tropes that did not deliver above past examples.

i was looking forward to this thread more than the movie. good stuff, ForEverAfter and Kenickie. and axl.

objectification or liberation, that's a great frame.

 

[ForEverAfter]

Nice post, dude...
You provide a really well-balanced analysis of the film (IMO).

so much of the film was one vehicle trying to get in front of another. the mutated warlords, sand people, mother's milk, and freak children were iterations of post-apocolyptic tropes that did not deliver above past examples.

Well said.
Yeah, there was a lot of generic apocalyptic fodder in Fury Road.
I liked the film, more or less, I just don't think it deserves the praise it has received.

this film is feminist in that it intentionally provides material for analysis of gender roles and relations. this film is not feminist in that it does not further women's liberation or gender equality.

I'm not sure I agree with the first statement. It doesn't qualify as feminist, by intent.
It thinks it is feminist; it pretends to be: but, really, it isn't.
I'm nit-picking, here. (I think you agree with me.)

the female being a flawed hero, not the ridiculously tough girl that ForEverAfter references. though she certainly does have a few characteristics of that cliche.

But, maybe she's only flawed because she has to be in order to avoid being criticized as the "ridiculously tough girl"?

...

I'm getting on the MRA bandwagon, more and more.
It sickens me how sexist (against men) films are getting, these days.
Fury Road is sexist in both directions, somewhat, but there's a tendency for films to demonize the fuck out of men.
The women in Fury Road are all either heroes or victims... I don't know how that's a mirror for the world we live in.

Where are the bad women?

...

And, for the record, strong female characters aren't new.

There's a lot more of them now, sure... But - maybe - too many? It's getting a bit patronizing.
It feels like Hollywood is pandering to the demand that there be more token tough girls.

I'm tempted to put together a list of films produced in the past 5-10 years with unrealistically strong female leads.
Charlize Theron's character (my brain refuses to remember her name, because it's too stupid) is flawed, as you said.
But, it's a response to the criticisms of the barrage of unrealistically strong female characters in modern cinema.
She's flawed because she has to be flawed to avoid said criticism. It's a transparent move.
The entire film is transparent in it's efforts to embrace "feminism" to sell tickets.

this is all i was hoping for from Mad Max: Road of Fury. a comic book world, delivering cool moments of far out post-apocalyptic imagery.

Me too. But, I was disappointed.
It could have been a more original comic book world.
The characters could have been defined better.
The acting could have been better, in parts.

I didn't go into it, expecting Shakespeare.
For a comic book film, it wasn't that great.
For an apocalyptic film, it wasn't that great either.

Post-apocalyptic comic book films are a dime a dozen, these days. The bar is set pretty fucking high for any of them to qualify as exceptional. Sure, the cinematography/stunts/effects were exceptional... but that means less and less, these days. The film seriously lacked in (comic book) ideas. There was nothing new, really, except for the freaks huffing silver spray paint (which, I admit, was pretty awesome)... oh, and people spitting fuel into the engines of cars (which, again, was pretty fucking awesome)... There were moments that engaged me, but they were far and few between.

Like you said:

so much of it is one vehicle trying to get in front of another

It would make a better video game than a movie.

objectification or liberation, that's a great frame.

I'm not going to disagree with that.
Like most high budget films produced these days, it's stunning.
But, a film has to be more than stunning to be a masterpiece.

...

(Did anyone else think the flame throwing guitar was fucking stupid?)

 

[hydroazuanacaine]

thanks. i want to back track a bit though. "but the primary tool of gender oppression is teaching people that their value in society is based on their sex appeal." i don't really believe this. though it is mentality in which gender oppression thrives. not suggesting the significance of beauty should be denied. it can't be addressed without admitting the significance. i don't agree with the idea Mad Max isn't feminist because it emphasizes beautiful women. it emphasizes beautiful women because it's an action movie. it's not feminist because it's only playing with surface tenets of feminism and is doing so for buzz and content. there may be an illustration of the importance of men and women working together, but it does not provide any real insight. just that men need tamed and women are nurtures, good for their healing touch. max is driving her truck. she takes a turn when he's doing something more important.

Like most high budget films produced these days, it's stunning.

stunning is a good word for that frame. but i don't agree that most blockbusters are stunning. almost every time i go ahead and see one, they are cg abominations made to support the trailer. that's not quite how i'd describe Mad Max.

 

[Jackal]

Well, Maddox approves:

Every once in a while a movie comes along that makes almost every other movie that came out before it look like a stupid, dumpy piece of shit that was a total waste of time. Mad Max: Fury Road is one such movie. If I was a director in Hollywood right now, I'd be committing suicide because the contest is over. You not only lost by not making this movie, you came in dead last with every other idiot director who decided to make any movie that wasn't this. Put a noose around your neck, drown your children in a river and write your suicide note because there's no point in trying anymore. Better yet, skip the note because I'll be too busy watching this movie to read it. Goodbye, loser.

http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=mad_max_hell_yeah

 

[ForEverAfter]

I'm going to nitpick again, hydro. (I still think you agree with me, overall.)

i don't agree with the idea Mad Max isn't feminist because it emphasizes beautiful women. it emphasizes beautiful women because it's an action movie.

It has scantily clad super models, because it's an action movie? Is that really a prerequisite? (Or, are you saying that it's - simply - expected?) What about a feminist action movie?

Can't you emphasize beauty in a more subtle / less objectifying way? It doesn't "require" a close-up of a spread eagle vagina tattooed with the words "meat puppet", so I don't see why it requires a dulled down version of that.

Can't you emphasize beauty without being sexist? If this was a feminist action movie, it would rise above the expectations of the genre (which is largely aimed at male demographics) and not cast super hot "damsel in distress" women. I don't see how this is remotely justifiable, from a feminist perspective.

It's like saying that there are blonde girls in underpants - screaming and running up the stairs - in horror movies, because there has to be in order to make a commentary about how women are misrepresented on screen. This only makes sense, to me, (somewhat) if you're tackling meta-commentary. Like the movie Scream. But, there didn't seem to be any attempt in the subtext of Fury Road to make a commentary (any commentary) about the objectification of women within the action genre...

Like you said it "emphasizes" beautiful women, because it's an action movie. But it doesn't do so in order to transcend the genre. And, it doesn't even attempt to do so (beyond the pandering illusion).

it's not feminist because it's only playing with surface tenets of feminism and is doing so for buzz and content.

Agreed.

max is driving her truck. she takes a turn when he's doing something more important.

Yep. Charlize Theron's character relies heavily on Max to save the day... He is the hero.
Sure, she's tough. But she's a damsel in distress (more or less).

Somebody mentioned that her character is flawed (read: has limitations).
Yet Max isn't flawed, or - at least - less flawed (read: has fewer limitations).

This film doesn't promote equality, at all...
The slave girls are literally sexual objects.
The vast majority of men in the film are monsters.
And, Charlize Theron's character is established - very clearly - as the sidekick.

I know it's called Mad Max, so obviously he has to be the central character (to some extent).
But, they could've had the woman save the day for once.
She could have been stronger than him. Or, as strong.

The only so-called feminist aspects of the film that functioned (even remotely) as feminist were the many mothers.
They weren't objectified. They didn't show any signs of weakness.
Why? ... Because they're too old to be sexual objects.

stunning is a good word for that frame. but i don't agree that most blockbusters are stunning. almost every time i go ahead and see one, they are cg abominations made to support the trailer. that's not quite how i'd describe Mad Max.

Okay, I was exaggerating. It is better looking than most blockbusters.
I guess I just don't care about highly polished Hollywood shit.
The look of a film is the least important aspect of it, IMO.

There are so many hollow films produced these days that look amazing.
As time goes on, I realize that I'd prefer the opposite.
Less style. More substance...

And, while that shot is stunning, it is no more stunning than a lot of fashion photography...
Take away the chastity belt and the pair of bolt-cutters, and you've got the front cover of some shitty magazine.

Well, Maddox approves

I have no idea who Maddox is, but what you quoted makes him sound like a teenager.

 

[Jackal]

I have no idea who Maddox is, but what you quoted makes him sound like a teenager.

He's a satirist.