lysergol?

[Hah]

these oxidized derivatives of the catecholamines may be just one more variable in the "cascade theory".

 

[MattPsy]

Possibly because the 5-HT2A antagonists are also causing a inverted cascade effect? I don't see how its possible to say that 5HT2a agonism is purely reponsible for the effects, when there are 5=HT2a agonists with as much affinitey as LSD, that are not psychedelic.

Because it's a specific conformation of the receptor (IMO ).
Specific conformations trigger G-protein linked secondary messenger release. Psychedelic 2A agonists probably have a quite specific firing pattern that needs to be satisfied.
If you take a non-psychedelic 2A agonist you just get the 2A receptor's normal behavior, like reduction of pressure in the eye AFAIK.
Gonzalez-Maeso et al. (2007). "Hallucinogens recruit specific cortical 5-HT2A receptor-mediated signaling pathways to affect behavior". Neuron 53 (3): 439–452. explored this area in some good depth, like whether concurrent DA activation is necessary, specific secondary messenger activation with psychedelic and non-psychedelic 2A agonists. etc.

 

[toxide]

does lysegol effect 2c aswell? I read somewhere it does altho I don't know how legit the findings r

 

[(zonk)]

wow this seems real interesting as lysergol doesn't structurally seem like it'd be psychedelic, it's listed as an antagonist tho, and LSAs+LSD are both antagonists aswell(LSA is more than LSD of coarse)this seems to corolate to thier potency.

So what exactly is "LSD LIKE" activity look like in a rat. I dont like to fuck with animals(even rats)so I probly would never give em any so I could see what would happen.

U cant possibly by into that adrenachrome theory. I'm not gonna get into whether or not it's psychoactive(never tried it but it probably is). if that were the case then why does every psychedelic have a unique nature all to it's own.
Also I wonder if taking these non-psychedelic analogs would yeild effects if taken in high enough doses. Maybe they're really potent but the dont react with the G-Protein as much, so a much higher dose is needed to notice any activity in this regard.

 

[fastandbulbous]

Anyway animal models for psychedelic activity don't always hold true as in rats 4-methoxyamphetamine isn't far behind LSD as a psychedelic using the 5HT induced head twitch (compounds with minimal psychedelic activity like youhimbine also cause the head twitch). As we all know (well a lot at least), in man 4-methoxyamphetamine is orders of magnoiude less active and even then is a funny fucker in the effects it produces (other than hyperthermia, cardiac difficulties/failure & death - not funny at all)


Still fairly certain lysergol isn't active as an hallucinogeen

 

[(zonk)]

LOL! wow, that's fuckin brilliant! ...If it makes yer head twitch... then it MUST be psychedelic. Well then-by looking @yer avatar FnB, u must b on a perma-trip.
Well thanx for atleast clearing that up

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Its scorpius off farscape^^

Didn't think you had quite the same ambitions for universal conquest there F&B

The alpha-2 antagonists like yohimbine make people twitch too, awful stuff made me twitch all over when I tried it.

 

[feelgoodhit]

but would there need to be different agonists to create different types of visuals? like fractals of lsd and 2c-e to the more quirky non mathematical ones shrooms sometimes produce?

i just read over this post again, & it brought up an interesting point, i don't know how you know that since you've never done shrooms, but it's so true! LSD / phenethylamine visuals are ALWAYS precise & mathematical for me, while mushroom visuals, which are intricate & strange in their own way, definitely have a much different, more disorganized character.

i thought it was just me. :]

 

[fastandbulbous]

For me, the visuals from lysergic acid derivatives are always geometric, rapid moving and extremely colourful. While PEA's can be geometric (persian rug patterns as shulgin called them) they don't tend to be rapidly animated and sometimes turn ito more organic forms (main one for me is something akin to seeing sea kelp in a tide). Psilocybin etc (including simple dialkyltryptamines other than DMT) are generally much more rounded and organic and can even involve fully formed images like those of animals or other lifeforms. If I add a dopaminergic stimulant to the mix though they become a lot more LSD like.

I think the dopaminergic activity of LSD must be making all the difference in my experience

 

[IGNVS]

could you give us an example of a dopaminergic stimulant?

 

[fastandbulbous]

Amphetamine (maybe catecholamine stimulant would be better as most dopaminergics that we'd come across also have some noradrenergic activity as well)

 

[(zonk)]

I was just wondering if anyone knows if anyone has tried taking one of these potent non psychedelic 5HT2a agonists like lisuride/bromoLSD in conjuction with a G-protein modulator/activator to see (since neither may have effect on their own) if the two would synergize to create the psychedelic effect and finally put this matter to rest.