[LSD Subthread] The Clean vs. Dirty Acid Debate (Part 1 - Archived)

[mclaughlinr1]

i wish lsd was a more promising purchase

 

[Sprinklervibes]

Well besides the breakdown products like iso-LSD, can't there be impurities from the synthesis? Like I'm sure there is with MDMA, but that's a different story

 

[Church]

I know it sounds pedantic, but in many 'clean/dirty acid' threads on the internet you see many people convinced that 'dirty' acid is chemically different (in a fundamental, structural sense) to 'clean' acid.

That's because it is. d-LSD is a different molecule than iso-LSD. The presence of iso-LSD can be due to improper or sloppy synthesis, or due to improper storage conditions. Dr. Hoffman himself suggested that there is probably a synergy that occurs between iso-LSD and the real stuff, which would affect the trip in a way that makes it different than just taking pure d-LSD by itself.

Nonetheless, as anyone who has done lots of acid can attest to, there is in fact such a thing as "clean acid" and "dirty acid."

 

[Mind-Melt]

i put it in one word - Karma. ie the righteous cook will ensure all the prerequisites to eliminate the ojective qualitative confounds and 'charge' the batch to impart that certain elusive, as of yet unquantifiable, yet very palpable variable, which really contributes to, neigh, makes the cosmogenics of the true LSD experience...

this "righteous cook" is just trying to make money... the root of most evil. what makes you think he gives a fuck?

 

[Hypnic_JerK]

Nanobrain u are such a hippy

But really, who can say if a chi flow could cause acid to degenerate faster/slower.

And MindMelt- Some people make/distribute these drugs to get people fucked up, not just to make money.

 

[nanobrain]

y'all still dont get my point. i am assuming that the Karmically tuned chemist making the LSD is in my book by definition a shit-hot specialist in many techniques, not just chromatography. that is a given.

and by this definition, my dear Mind-Melt, the Karmic cook is certainly not in it to make money. if you cant fathom other reasons as to why very highly qualified specialist would dedicate enormous amounts of personal time, skill - and yes, to be certain, money - you ain't grokking the picture and might as well switch the channel.

i dont remember ever having had to pay for pure LSD. i always find that the best evangelic psychedelic is given away for free.

Nanobrain u are such a hippy
But really, who can say if a chi flow could cause acid to degenerate faster/slower.

ahhaahhaa, no i'm more of a transdemented technoanarchist bio-pirate, and if ya call me a hiipy, i'll send a coup l'aire on yo' ass and make your acid go bunk. ;-)

 

[J. Alfred Prufrock]

Nah, it's all down to the ratio of the 4 isomers ....

BTW I've always taken 'acid' to refer to the mixed isomer product as opposed to pure d-LSD

I disagree. In this reference, Hofmann himself notes that the L isomers related to carbon 5 are not naturally occurring and can only be obtained synthetically through "complicated chemical" procedures (p. 87). There is no pathway for scambling the stereochemistry at carbon 5 as there is at carbon 8 through epimerization.

While it is theoretically true that there are 4 stereoisomers of LSD due to chirality at carbons 8 and 5, it is only the two isomers related to carbon 8 that have relevance in discussing what's in LSD in my opinion. Ultimately, LSD is coming from natural sources (D isomer), and L isomers are synthetic products that have no significance to what's in LSD on the street. Show me a reference that states otherwise.

I do think there are typically 4 compounds in street samples of LSD. They would be the two pairs of epimers from the starting material and LSD (D-LSD & D-iso-LSD). I think it's reasonable to assume that whatever the starting material is, that it would be the D isomer due to it being from a natural source. No one is going to have L-ergotamine or some similar starting material available.

 

[fastandbulbous]

There is no pathway for scambling the stereochemistry at carbon 5 as there is at carbon 8 through epimerization.

OK, I was just covering the eventuality that someone migh go for a total synthesis of LSD. I'm aware that naturally occurring chiral compounds generally only consist of one of the two isomers because of the way enzymes create them - protein chains of the enzymes responsible for the biosynthetic pathway are intrinsically geared towards a 'handed' product.

The stereochemistry at the 5 position is identical to the absolute configuration of all of the most potent optical isomers of chiral 5-HT psychedelics (eg R-DOM & S-AMT)

 

[CatfishRivers]

I was at some hippy party recently and caught wind of something called "Tornado Juice", which was latter explained to be "very pure" lsd. I have known some of these guys for a long time, and they have often discussed different qualities of the acid. I personally have never had enough experience with the varying "batches" to have an opinion. but these hardcore hippies certainly did. And they've done a whole lot. So, at least the hippies believe there is a difference, and they sell it at different prices accordingly. I wish I had not been totally broke at that party. I totally missed the boat...

 

[Detrevni]

I think what was thought as the "clean" acid back in the 70's was actually a chemical that's similar (and smoother) than LSD called ALD-52.

 

[nanobrain]

^^TJ or Tornado Juice Family acid is said to be a blend of 2 dirty-ass crystals (amber and lavender, or lavender and black, cant remember) and as such, should probably not be at the top of a connoisseur's list of acids to try.

 

[fastandbulbous]

I think what was thought as the "clean" acid back in the 70's was actually a chemical that's similar (and smoother) than LSD called ALD-52.

No, it's different altogether - if you're interested there are a couple of threads on the subject of ALD-52 (1-acetyl LSD)

 

[Ximot]

@Nanobrain: ... assuming I am paying for my acid, then I can't possibly have the best quality?

I do know that acid has a way of appearing when it's the right time... but does it mean if someone doesn't get acid despite their trying to get some, that the acid has consciously (presuming molecules have a consciousness) withheld itself? If yes, what about about all the DOx blotters around?

 

[Toltec]

~Nanabnrain>>--->
I and a few other members of this board who have chewed and swallowed enough sheets to note such things, believe that the particular cook's karma and spiritual intent contribute significantly to the morphogenics and overall quality of both the catalyst and the experience.

I believe the cooks intent has allot to do with the direction of a trip. I also believe that crystals vibrate with the intent and energy of the last person who touched a sheet etc... Owsley himself was an alchemist who purposely blessed his own batches of LSD.

Ether way, good intent or otherwise placed upon a sheet, liquid, or a gram of LSD crystal etc... along with the LSD takers belief system may have allot to do with the quality and direction of a trip. Then there's the placebo effect too.

Here's something interesting about crystals; Not to forget LSD is a form of crystal none the less!~

Crystals, stones and metals have been used by humans for tens of thousands of years. They are used to make our homes and have been made into weapons or used to sharpen them. They also have been used as tools of magic and religious ritual and as talismans and offerings to the Gods. We may not notice them, but they are everywhere in our lives. It is not uncommon to find the even the most skeptical non-believer wearing a birthstone ring, the stone considered lucky for a person born during that month. Today, the natural energies of stones and crystals are being rediscovered by a whole new generation.

As tools of magic, stones lend us their energies and provide us with places to store our own energies. They are like natural batteries, storing within them the energies of the Earth. They come in a rainbow of colors from ice clear to solid, glossy black and come in a variety of shapes, sizes, and textures. They are a direct connection to the Earth that provides us with all we need for existence. They are found within the Earth, a true gift of the Goddess and God. Stones are used as talismans to protect from the unknown and are returned to the Earth to insure the fertility of the fields and the success of the crops. Stone magic covers all aspects of life: health, love, prosperity, spirituality, wisdom, just to name a few.

In conjunction with candle magic, stones add their energies and concentrate the purpose within themselves. Because of this, the stone used for a positive spell is retrieved and used as a talisman. For a negative or banishing spell, the stone is never touched and carefully returned to the earth far from your home.

Before a stone is used in a spell, the stone should be charged with the purpose of the spell i.e the intent of a person. This is done by holding the stone in your projective (usually the right) hand and letting the energy that is within you pour into the stone while visualizing the purpose.

Some say the best stones are the ones you gather yourself. For most of us, this is not very realistic, but if you can, try to find stones in stream beds or lake bottoms, maybe from a wooded path or even in your own back yard. Remember, when you do gather stones, ask the Earth first and then thank it for its sacrifice. Some witches perform a small ritual before they go on stone gather expeditions, making offerings to the Earth and praying for a good hunt.

Keep in mind that the stones need to be cleansed of any negativity or lingering psychic clutter. You have no idea how many people have handled the stones before you or how they were claimed from the Earth, but you can probably guess that the Earth was not asked or thanked for its sacrifice.

The stones can be cleansed using several methods. Set the stone in direct sunlight, preferable outside, and let the Sun's energies do the work. The stone should stay outside for anywhere from one day to a week, depending on how much other energy the stone's absorbed. The stone should be brought in every evening at dusk. Check the stone by placing it in your receptive hand (left). Does the stones natural energy vibrations feel normal? Once they do, the cleansing is finished.

If you happen to live near a stream or river or maybe on the ocean, you can use the running water to cleanse the stones as well. This is done by placing the stones in a mesh bag, tying them off somehow so as to not lose them and let the running water cleanse them overnight. If one night is not enough, leave it for another.

The Earth can also be used, although this method is much more time consuming. Take the stones and bury them in the earth. Remember to mark where the stones are buried! Leave them there for a week or two. Check them to see if they are cleansed. If not, rebury them and wait another week.

If none of these methods are possible, a small ritual can be performed using a bowl of fresh earth (North), a small basin of water (West), incense (East) and a red candle (South). Pass the stone through each of these elements while asking the element to aid in cleansing the stone of all negativity and unwanted energies.

And of course, there is always sage smudging...
Now on to some neat stuff...

Here's something about water and it power to hold onto an intent.
http://www.dowsers.info/toronto/water2.htm

Just something to ponder on your next trip bluelighters
Whahaha

 

[fastandbulbous]

I've always just seen crystals (be it large hexagonal prisms of quartz or growing copper sulphate crystals) as interesting and attractive, but never imbued them with any magical properties. They are simply caused by the arrangement of molecules in the lowest energy state (thermodynamics and all that...); other than their pharmacological activity of crystalline LSD (you only get good crystals with a fairly pure product), the only 'magical' property I can agree to is their giving off light when crushed. Even that isn't magic as such, just a rare property known as piezoluminesence; people don't see electricity from crushing crystals (piezoelectric effect) as magic otherwise there'd be a big market in sacred gas lighter holders!

 

[Church]

C'mon, though, f&b, you gotta be at least a LITTLE fascinated by piezoluminescence, aren't ya? I mean, all metaphysical explanations aside (although to me it's no accident that the chemical that makes me feel and taste 'electricity' emits it visibly by itself in its pure form), this is a rare quality for any molecule to possess! I remember when I first read about this property of LSD, how it all seemed to "make sense to me" that I felt electricity when tripping. It sure does seem a little 'magical' for lack of a better word.

And just because there are scientific reasons behind things, doesn't mean that the 'magic' is less important, or not even real at all. I still think the fact that LSD is piezoluminescent is God's way (or insert whatever your concept of God/nature/chaos/etc. is) of saying to us "Hey, look at this molecule, you might want to study this one a bit..."

 

[socko]

Is it true that a small (non-toxic) amount strychnine is in some blotter? Some kid told me that's what's in dirty acid, and it makes your muscles and joints ache.

 

[Ximot]

@Toltec: interesting stuff, totally up my street. This thread is taking an interesting direction.

Here's something you may like to have a look at, it is kind of in sync with what your link is on about: http://www.thank-water.net/english/ Btw, I "prill" my water too, and I also use EM-X ceramics to clean its energetic resonance.

 

[fastandbulbous]

C'mon, though, f&b, you gotta be at least a LITTLE fascinated by piezoluminescence, aren't ya? I mean, all metaphysical explanations aside

Oh yes, I do find it fascinating, considering to produce an EM photon of that sort of power is pretty damn impressive, especially just from a mechanical energy input. I mean LEDs still fascinate me, as do big electrical discharges (I will build a Tesla coil one day!), it's just I don't see any metaphysical meanings in them. I just used inverted commas around 'magic' to indicate that I only see them as purely logical scientific phenomena... I know about how the 'Northern Lights' are created by energetic particles from the solar wind being focused down on the poles by the Earth's magnetic field and then interacting with oxygen and nitrogen molecules in the atmosphere to produce the light, but the times I've seen them I still stand awe-struck like a little kid.

It's not a case of (referring to the saying) that knowing how something works means that they seem commonplace/ordinary. The day that happens, if it does, will be the day I retire from the human race...

 

[fastandbulbous]

Is it true that a small (non-toxic) amount strychnine is in some blotter? Some kid told me that's what's in dirty acid, and it makes your muscles and joints ache.

No, he full of excrement - that's one of those urban drug myths that always has somebody reciting it as gospel